Re: Who is using AOP in industry?

Hello,

I'm the author of PostSharp, a (quite young) AOP framework for .NET.
It's difficult to say how much it is used in industry, but I have feedback that it is used to implement the "persistence" concept (O/R mapper, in-memory transactions, object databases, ...). But here the difference between AOP and MSIL rewriting is thin. Surprisingly, people are also interested in AOP to implement mocking (a testing technique).

As far as PostSharp is concerned, the adoption is "bottom-up", i.e. it is adopted informally by individuals or small teams; it is not pushed top-down by architects in a waterfall model. It may be because of the youth and the beta status of the software. However, even if I cannot name the companies, these teams are from *big* software shops.


Gael Fraiteur


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Today's Topics:

   1. Who is using AOP in industry? (S?rgio Soares)
   2. Re: Who is using AOP in industry? (Dean Wampler)
   3. Re: Who is using AOP in industry? (S?rgio Soares)
   4. Re: Who is using AOP in industry? (Simon Hem Pedersen)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 20:30:24 -0300
From: S?rgio Soares <[email protected]>
Subject: [aosd-discuss] Who is using AOP in industry?
To: Discuss AOSD <[email protected]>,  [email protected]
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi everyone,

I am preparing a talk about how AOP is being adopted in industry. I 
appreciate any information you can give me.

Please send me information about your real projects, their size, 
application domain, which languages are/were used, etc. Please, fell 
free to omit any classified information, or your company name.

-- 
S?rgio Soares
[email protected]

SugarLoafPLoP?2007
http://sugarloafplop.dsc.upe.br/

Professor Adjunto
Coordenador de Infra-estrutura do DSC
Departamento de Sistemas Computacionais
Escola Polit?cnica, Universidade de Pernambuco
http://www.dsc.upe.br

Software Productivity Group
http://www.cin.ufpe.br/spg



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:50:54 -0500
From: Dean Wampler <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [aosd-discuss] Who is using AOP in industry?
To: S?rgio Soares <[email protected]>
Cc: Discuss AOSD <[email protected]>
Message-ID:
	<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Most of the usage is probably somewhat "indirect" through Spring AOP,  
JBoss AOP, and tools like Glassbox, in the Java/AspectJ world. There  
are also some .NET AOP frameworks, but I don't know anything about  
industry uptake there. You might google these topics and see if you  
can find any direct experience reports, etc.

There are "AOP-like" [1] things done all the time by users of dynamic  
languages (e.g., method "wrapping", intertype declarations); they  
just don't usually call it "AOP". I've been working in Ruby lately  
and most of the important toolkits, including Ruby on Rails and  
RSpec, contain examples of these things.

Good luck,

dean

[1] By "AOP-like", I mean that they are doing the simple things I  
listed, but they are missing unified modularity mechanisms for  
encapsulating aspects and, in particular, describing pointcuts with a  
powerful pointcut language of some kind. Hence, non-trivial aspects  
still involve a lot of metaprogramming hacks.

On Aug 18, 2007, at 6:30 PM, S?rgio Soares wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I am preparing a talk about how AOP is being adopted in industry. I
> appreciate any information you can give me.
>
> Please send me information about your real projects, their size,
> application domain, which languages are/were used, etc. Please, fell
> free to omit any classified information, or your company name.
>
> -- 
> S?rgio Soares
> [email protected]
>
> SugarLoafPLoP?2007
> http://sugarloafplop.dsc.upe.br/
>
> Professor Adjunto
> Coordenador de Infra-estrutura do DSC
> Departamento de Sistemas Computacionais
> Escola Polit?cnica, Universidade de Pernambuco
> http://www.dsc.upe.br
>
> Software Productivity Group
> http://www.cin.ufpe.br/spg
>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list    -    [email protected]
>
> To unsubscribe and change options, go to:
> http://aosd.net/mailman/listinfo/discuss_aosd.net
>
> Check out the AOSD.net Wiki: http://aosd.net/wiki

Dean Wampler, Ph.D.
dean at objectmentor.com
http://www.objectmentor.com
http://www.aspectprogramming.com
http://www.contract4j.org

I want my tombstone to say:
   Unknown Application Error in Dean Wampler.exe.
   Application Terminated.
       [Okay]        [Cancel]






------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2007 20:57:37 -0300
From: S?rgio Soares <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [aosd-discuss] Who is using AOP in industry?
To: Dean Wampler <[email protected]>
Cc: Discuss AOSD <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

hi Dean,

thanks for your email. In fact, I hope my email can reach someone that 
is actually using AOP in industry environment, that's why I post it here!

regards,

S?rgio Soares
[email protected]

SugarLoafPLoP?2007
http://sugarloafplop.dsc.upe.br/

Professor Adjunto
Coordenador de Infra-estrutura do DSC
Departamento de Sistemas Computacionais
Escola Polit?cnica, Universidade de Pernambuco
http://www.dsc.upe.br

Software Productivity Group
http://www.cin.ufpe.br/spg

Dean Wampler wrote:
> Most of the usage is probably somewhat "indirect" through Spring AOP, 
> JBoss AOP, and tools like Glassbox, in the Java/AspectJ world. There are 
> also some .NET AOP frameworks, but I don't know anything about industry 
> uptake there. You might google these topics and see if you can find any 
> direct experience reports, etc.
> 
> There are "AOP-like" [1] things done all the time by users of dynamic 
> languages (e.g., method "wrapping", intertype declarations); they just 
> don't usually call it "AOP". I've been working in Ruby lately and most 
> of the important toolkits, including Ruby on Rails and RSpec, contain 
> examples of these things.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> dean
> 
> [1] By "AOP-like", I mean that they are doing the simple things I 
> listed, but they are missing unified modularity mechanisms for 
> encapsulating aspects and, in particular, describing pointcuts with a 
> powerful pointcut language of some kind. Hence, non-trivial aspects 
> still involve a lot of metaprogramming hacks.
> 
> On Aug 18, 2007, at 6:30 PM, S?rgio Soares wrote:
> 
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I am preparing a talk about how AOP is being adopted in industry. I
>> appreciate any information you can give me.
>>
>> Please send me information about your real projects, their size,
>> application domain, which languages are/were used, etc. Please, fell
>> free to omit any classified information, or your company name.
>>
>> --S?rgio Soares
>> [email protected]
>>
>> SugarLoafPLoP?2007
>> http://sugarloafplop.dsc.upe.br/
>>
>> Professor Adjunto
>> Coordenador de Infra-estrutura do DSC
>> Departamento de Sistemas Computacionais
>> Escola Polit?cnica, Universidade de Pernambuco
>> http://www.dsc.upe.br
>>
>> Software Productivity Group
>> http://www.cin.ufpe.br/spg
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> discuss mailing list    -    [email protected]
>>
>> To unsubscribe and change options, go to:
>> http://aosd.net/mailman/listinfo/discuss_aosd.net
>>
>> Check out the AOSD.net Wiki: http://aosd.net/wiki
> 
> Dean Wampler, Ph.D.
> dean at objectmentor.com
> http://www.objectmentor.com
> http://www.aspectprogramming.com
> http://www.contract4j.org
> 
> I want my tombstone to say:
>   Unknown Application Error in Dean Wampler.exe.
>   Application Terminated.
>       [Okay]        [Cancel]
> 
> 
> 
> 



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 06:13:35 +0200
From: "Simon Hem Pedersen" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [aosd-discuss] Who is using AOP in industry?
To: " S?rgio Soares " <[email protected]>
Cc: Discuss AOSD <[email protected]>
Message-ID:
	<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Sergio,

In the company, I work in, we have started on aspect orientation. I
read Ivar Jakobson's AOSD book a couple of years a go. But getting
anyone to use merely AOP was hard. AOSD in Jakobson terms might be an
illusion (I don't know) but I very must like his extensions to the UML
language allowing you to do aspect orientation in Analysis and Design.

To the point, well actually I'm writing a case-study article about our
experiences so I don't how much information I would like to share but
here is some facts:

- 80+ people project, using AOP for performance logging, Spin off
framework for asynchronous GUIs, and starting to use the Dynamic Proxy
approach to implement a lot ofther crosscutting concerns.

- 15+ people project, using Spring to implement crosscutting concerns:
for instance security

- 20 people project (the project I currently work on), I hope to
introduce AOP. The problem is that this project is a C# project and it
seems that (in my company) no one else has tried doing AOP for C#!

Please tell me if you need more facts, in return I would like you to
review my "case-study" article.

Best regards,

Simon Hem Pedersen
Master in Science - Sofware Engineering, Denmark
(currently: Test Manager, Lead Developer, Coorporate Educator, and
member of the Development Knowledge Leadership in a large Danish
company)

On 8/19/07, S?rgio Soares <[email protected]> wrote:
> hi Dean,
>
> thanks for your email. In fact, I hope my email can reach someone that
> is actually using AOP in industry environment, that's why I post it here!
>
> regards,
>
> S?rgio Soares
> [email protected]
>
> SugarLoafPLoP?2007
> http://sugarloafplop.dsc.upe.br/
>
> Professor Adjunto
> Coordenador de Infra-estrutura do DSC
> Departamento de Sistemas Computacionais
> Escola Polit?cnica, Universidade de Pernambuco
> http://www.dsc.upe.br
>
> Software Productivity Group
> http://www.cin.ufpe.br/spg
>
> Dean Wampler wrote:
> > Most of the usage is probably somewhat "indirect" through Spring AOP,
> > JBoss AOP, and tools like Glassbox, in the Java/AspectJ world. There are
> > also some .NET AOP frameworks, but I don't know anything about industry
> > uptake there. You might google these topics and see if you can find any
> > direct experience reports, etc.
> >
> > There are "AOP-like" [1] things done all the time by users of dynamic
> > languages (e.g., method "wrapping", intertype declarations); they just
> > don't usually call it "AOP". I've been working in Ruby lately and most
> > of the important toolkits, including Ruby on Rails and RSpec, contain
> > examples of these things.
> >
> > Good luck,
> >
> > dean
> >
> > [1] By "AOP-like", I mean that they are doing the simple things I
> > listed, but they are missing unified modularity mechanisms for
> > encapsulating aspects and, in particular, describing pointcuts with a
> > powerful pointcut language of some kind. Hence, non-trivial aspects
> > still involve a lot of metaprogramming hacks.
> >
> > On Aug 18, 2007, at 6:30 PM, S?rgio Soares wrote:
> >
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> I am preparing a talk about how AOP is being adopted in industry. I
> >> appreciate any information you can give me.
> >>
> >> Please send me information about your real projects, their size,
> >> application domain, which languages are/were used, etc. Please, fell
> >> free to omit any classified information, or your company name.
> >>
> >> --S?rgio Soares
> >> [email protected]
> >>
> >> SugarLoafPLoP?2007
> >> http://sugarloafplop.dsc.upe.br/
> >>
> >> Professor Adjunto
> >> Coordenador de Infra-estrutura do DSC
> >> Departamento de Sistemas Computacionais
> >> Escola Polit?cnica, Universidade de Pernambuco
> >> http://www.dsc.upe.br
> >>
> >> Software Productivity Group
> >> http://www.cin.ufpe.br/spg
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> discuss mailing list    -    [email protected]
> >>
> >> To unsubscribe and change options, go to:
> >> http://aosd.net/mailman/listinfo/discuss_aosd.net
> >>
> >> Check out the AOSD.net Wiki: http://aosd.net/wiki
> >
> > Dean Wampler, Ph.D.
> > dean at objectmentor.com
> > http://www.objectmentor.com
> > http://www.aspectprogramming.com
> > http://www.contract4j.org
> >
> > I want my tombstone to say:
> >   Unknown Application Error in Dean Wampler.exe.
> >   Application Terminated.
> >       [Okay]        [Cancel]
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list    -    [email protected]
>
> To unsubscribe and change options, go to:
> http://aosd.net/mailman/listinfo/discuss_aosd.net
>
> Check out the AOSD.net Wiki: http://aosd.net/wiki
>



------------------------------

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