Re: Re: Sticking point

Ron,

[GBA] Some short comments to an informative post, thx...

The answer "we can't do that", or "things aren't done that way around
here", or "there is no data to support that" are not convincing to the
observer. You object when people can't support their opinions about
XP, and when they do it in any form other than one you like, you
object even though they are doing their best. That goes both ways.

[GBA] I don't object to what they do, hell they can do anything they want,
it's their money. I object when they tell me I have to do the same without
qualifying the domain, context, or providing any evidence for "my" domain.
When they tell me what's good for my projects without ever asking what my
projects are, or even asking how far we've come or where we plan to go, or
even what are the constraints of the world we work in. I object we they make
the assumption that what works for them on their web project will work on
our compartmentalized cyber security DOE project no matter what. I object
when a builder of web sites starts tell'n me how to roll out a 4,500 seat
ERP system. OK I'm done...

"We can't do that" is not convincing, it is not proof, and from the
outside it is indistinguishable from "we don't want to do that" or "we
aren't listening to you".

[GBA] If it is indistinguishable, then I'd suggest they need to look a
little closer. There are instances where that is true, I've been in client
orgs where they were true, but I've been here (XP/XC Forum) to long to put
up with that response any more.

[GBA] For us "We can't do that," is usually a legally binding contract, and
even at times a Congressional Order. We push back when we can, we walk
around the edges when we can, we try very hard to avoid getting in a fight
about some trivial FAR interpretation, but there are hard limits in many
domains.

[GBA] If "they" are unhappy with that answer, than please have "them" start
reading the FAR's and DOE Regs. There are limits to everything, sometimes
these limits are unpleasant to work within, but there limits. You can't come
to my office unless you're a US Citizen, have a photo ID, and get escorted
to the bathroom (no I don't watch, but I have to stand outside the door).
You can't have code be checked out by folks who aren't on the "access list,"
they can't make changes without a review of what they're changing BEFORE
they change it, you can't release code to a customer on an arbitrary
boundary unless cyber security (CS) says you can, even if it is bug free and
ready to go, you can't have the customer changing the spec without CS
reviewing the change, and most times they say no just to be annoying and
justify their job. You get the point, this is not a bunch of web developers
cranking out the latest gadget for their buddies on some freeware code base.
The same types of behaviors BTW like ours are found in most Fortune 500 IT
shops, the code does not belong to the developers it belongs to the
corporation - in our case the DOE.

All this stuff cuts both ways. XP is not on trial here. You have made
your own honest, sincere, and thoughtful choices, and have adopted
some XP stuff and have apparently benefited by it.

[GBA] What's on trial here is the "in your face" method of XP and the
applicability of that method outside the zealot community of "believers." If
the approach is the be a zealot, fine be one, but I can't afford that,
frankly I would not have the position I have today if I were. I'd still be
on the outside looking in. All the pro-XP folks that work for and with me
act the same. They came from TelCos, aerospace, COTS vendors. NO ONE runs
around shouting the words you would like to hear. They interact with the
execs in a manner consistent with the expectation of the execs - no
revolutionaries here I'm happy to say, just slow steady progress to
improvement, while maintaining compliance with those annoying little FARs
and Orders.

That is great, and in fact you've done it without all that data that you
kept asking for
and never got.

[GBA] Actually I got the data from aerospace and telco's. But it's data from
projects that have CMM Level 3 certs as well.

It would be interesting to know why you decided to go
ahead when all you could get was Zen Sayings.

[GBA] You'll have to wait until the DOE CIO conference in April '03, Las
Vegas. Or edit some of the slides for that meeting. (Thanks for the edits on
our Agile 2003 paper BTW). We drop the practices that made no sense for us
and enthusiastically embraced those that did. We hired folks from local
aerospace that have put XP-like practices to work building space junk and
other non-commercial tax payers gadgets. They used EVMS, they used CMM level
4, they have customers with starts on their shoulders.

[GBA] It's adaptive use of "best practices." If you're going to claim we're
not doing XP in the balls out method and therefore have no "portfolio" from
which to speak, well nice try, but the Genie is out of the bottle and now
people are putting her to use in ways never heard of by the original
authors.

XP is what it is. A lot of people are here on this group, and on the
XP group, explaining it as best they can, in a lot of different
styles. You picked good value out of that torrent somehow. Other
executives who are worth their pay can do so as well.

I have known many executives, and few of them needed their hands held.
Few of them feared confrontation or direct speech. Most of them were
comfortable with passion and indeed worked to create it. They
tolerated uniqueness, nurtured creativity, respected people for what
they are, for what they can do, and for what they contribute.

I haven't met many executives like Bill is worried about, and the very
few I have were frankly unfit to hold the toilet seat for the others.

Real executives aren't afraid of computer programmers.

[GBA] It's not fear here, our customers just plain don't trust software
people, like what they do - although they can't live without us - and really
do hate to spend money on things they don't trust. We've earned their
distrust, now we're working hard to earn their trust. On Time, On Budget,
Meets Spec - is our motto, along with some other touchy feely stuff too soft
to mention here, but I'll show you in June.

Ron

[GBA] Glen


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