RE: Re: XP and estimating

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/files/Inter-team%20T
DD.pdf is my attempt to codify the relationship between hardware and
software design using Test Driven Development. As with pretty much
everything I do, really following this advice requires a shift of social
relationships (the hardware designers have to help write the tests and
stubs). Even without HW's cooperation, though, folks report that the
approach has value. I was talking to a guy who said when he gets a new
rev of the hardware, the first thing he does is run the tests that
exercise the hardware. If they fail, there's no point in more
integration work, because the software is bound to fail.

Kent

> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
> sentto-8233308-1169-1039764475-kent=threeriversinstitute.org@r
> eturns.groups.yahoo.com 
> [mailto:sentto-8233308-1169-1039764475-kent=threeriversinstitu
> [email protected]] On Behalf Of STEURS Stefan
> Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2002 11:16 PM
> To: '[email protected]'
> Subject: RE: [XC] Re: XP and estimating
> 
> 
>  
> All what you are saying is being done.
> 
> I see it as an integral part of the software development 
> process but not one that is covered by the XP practices that 
> I know (and I admit I don't know enough about it).
> 
> As I see how much we are struggling with it I think it would 
> be nice if there were a more agile way of getting to the 
> problem space definition.
> 
> Regards, Stefan Steurs.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Andrey Khavryuchenko [mailto:[email protected]]
> > Sent: Friday, December 13, 2002 8:11 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [XC] Re: XP and estimating
> > 
> > 
> > Stefan,
> > 
> > "SS" == STEURS Stefan wrote:
> > 
> >  SS> This seems extremely tight to me. What if the problem
> > space is not yet
> >  SS> understood.  
> > 
> > Create a hypothesis, test it, learn.  Continue until 
> problem space is 
> > understood.
> > 
> > [...]
> > 
> >  SS> In your example the problem space is well defined.  You
> > are automating
> >  SS> an existing business process.  I can understand in 
> such cases the
> >  SS> problem definition is rather straightforward.  Imagine 
> > this case "In
> >  SS> the pan-European airspace there are military airspaces 
> > which are used
> >  SS> for training flights and patrol flights of the military.  These
> >  SS> airspaces are used on a planned basis and during these 
> > periods they
> >  SS> cannot be used by commercial aircraft.  We know that there is a
> >  SS> shortage on capacity in nearby airspaces which leads 
> to excessive
> >  SS> delays for commercial flights in some periods and being 
> > able to use
> >  SS> the military airspace would increase the capacity.  We 
> > want to be able
> >  SS> to build a function into an existing system that allows 
> > to co-ordinate
> >  SS> the use of the military airspace to make use of that 
> > extra capacity to
> >  SS> reduce the delays."
> > 
> >  SS> Perhaps you think "this is trivial".  Well I can assure
> > you it has
> >  SS> taken a long time to agree on what the problem space 
> > exactly is and
> >  SS> even longer to define the solution.  "Takes a few 
> minutes" is not
> >  SS> something that you can apply here.  Also, it's damned 
> > difficult to
> >  SS> implement a partial solution.  Only an end-to-end solution that
> >  SS> involves the airlines, the air traffic controllers, 
> the national
> >  SS> administrations that co-ordinate the airspace 
> > use/capacity, the data
> >  SS> providers and then some with the required 
> > "functionality" can lead to
> >  SS> added value.
> > 
> >  SS> The solution cannot exist without software.  There is no
> > physical model
> >  SS> (like a bowling game) to implement.
> > 
> > Create software model of an airspace and try (XPish: spike) 
> your ideas 
> > there.
> > 
> > That's how we approach to embedded and industrial system
> > development: we
> > have to develop software for a device (small or large) that 
> > don't exist
> > yet.
> > 
> > What we do is simple: write primitive software model of that
> > device, that's
> > capable only to replay predefined scenarios and develop 
> > software on top of
> > this.
> > 
> > When actual hardware becomes available, test and integrade.
> > Don't forget
> > to modify the software model and accompanying scenarios.
> > 
> > I think that would help, esp. if you have a bunch of 
> stakeholders that 
> > hardly agree on software requirements.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Andrey V Khavryuchenko            http://www.kds.com.ua/
> > Silver Bullet Software Solutions  http://www.kds.com.ua/edu/
> > 
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