RE: Re: Sticking point

Bill,

> > Because we're not discussing how XP teams are organized.
>
> Why should the model for organizing a discussion about XP be
> different from
> the model of how an XP team is organized?  Not saying it
> shouldn't be.  Just
> wonder what your rationale is.

Well I'm tempted to say "Why should it be" but that goes nowhere.

An XP team is a very small group, deliberately isolated from
the larger business world by a set of "fictions" which we
try to make as true as possible in order to simplify their
work. By fictions, I mean things like "the stories are all
independent" or "the value of stories can be stated as a
simple ranking"

The purpose of this list, if I understand it, is to step
outside that little bubble and deal with things as they
are. No model captures things as they are, but one that
makes deliberate simplifications may not - I say may -
be suitable for a wider discussion.

> > I'm afraid it isn't. You've taken an attempt to provide a
> > logical model and interpreted it in some personal sense here.
> >
> > My discomfort is entirely intellectual. I think the model of
> > technical versus everything else is flawed and that the flaws
> > lead to miscommunication.
>
> As I said, I agree re: two-sided models.  The gist of your model seemed to
> me to be that you see value definition, value production, and
> management as
> all being a combination of technical and business.  That led me to believe
> you were saying everyone should contribute to all discussions.  I
> don't see
> how that model improves the discussion.  If I'm missing it,
> please continue
> and I'll keep trying.

You understood the gist of my model correctly. My point said
nothing at all about who should contribute to discussions. I
suppose that people will decide that for themselves. Rather,
I'm suggesting that technical versus non-technical is not the
most important division to look at in the world of business.

I'm not selling this model. If it helps someone, that's great.
If not, think about it if the techie/non-techie distinction
gets you in trouble later.

> > The word "smell" was intended to
> > have an xp meaning - a metaphor for bad design. I probably
> > should have avoided that usage here.
>
> I'd appreciate it.  Not being an XP practitioner, I'm not immunized to the
> use of these terms and find they make effective communication more
> difficult.

I'm happy to try, but I'm wondering about something. My work has
taken me into quite a number of different business domains. In each
one I've had to learn to use words as the folks in the domain use
them. Sometimes the usage was quite unnatural, but it was just what
I had to do. Since you've been around a lot, I imagine that you've
probably had some of the same experience.

I wonder if there is something more operating here. Why is it
hard - or undesirable - for some folks on this list to hear
the meanings behind some of the XP slang? Everyone seems to
be pretty smart and uses words well and I expect there are
many people with more diverse exposure to differing ways of
speaking than me. So why is this an obstacle particularly?

Bill, if you don't mind, I'll ask you to answer in the first
person: why is this a hard switch for you. Others, if you
find it hard, can you try to tell me why?

If it's because we can't present information to the C level
using this sort of slang, I do already get that. To borrow
from a different sort of slang: "Duh!"

But if there's a real reason why people here find it hard
to make this adjustment, and if I can understand it, I'll
be more likely to change my ways.

Charlie Poole
[email protected]
www.pooleconsulting.com
www.charliepoole.org







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