Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?
"Avi Kessner" <[email protected]> Fri, 6 Dec 2019 01:07:58 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.programming.extreme-programming |
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| Message-ID | <CAGEhWpEKc-nFhuHOjdk0+tXmo14XceW5ZjLGo8NGHOdky+CAQw@mail.gmail.com> |
--000000000000d8f1a10598fd005e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What a great way to phrase it! On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 21:36 George Paci <[email protected]> wrote: > I am definitely stealing this term and spreading it. > > "If you want to do Continuous Delivery, you need to do Continuous > Integration. And if you want to do Continuous Integration, you need to d= o > Continuous Coding." > > Memorable. Also true. > > =E2=80=94George > > Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before you get tire= d. > - Jules Renard > > On 12/4/19 5:33 PM, Avi Kessner wrote: > > If I were to market XP today I would call it "Continuous Coding". So you > do CC, then CI, then CD. You could shorten this to C3, and bring XP bac= k > in a full circle. > > On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 23:22 Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io <imeshev=3D > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Robin, >> >> I think it=E2=80=99s a great idea to build a sellable brand for XP. How= about >> 'Effective Programming', as in delivering results? >> >> Slava >> >> On Dec 4, 2019, at 10:42 AM, R Dymond <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hey Ron! >> >> Yes I believe Howard could invest *a lot* if he saw a route to growing >> these practices. >> >> A couple ideas: >> Agree that this needs a major rebranding. "Safe" sells, "extreme" is a >> terrible brand for an industry practice. James Gosling, working at Sun = got >> marketing and branding involved and thats why we got the great branding= for >> Java. >> >> How do we make these ideas cool? Can we get the top tech celebrities >> advocating and pitching for these ideas? By celebs I mean mainstream te= ch >> celebs like Linus Torvalds, some of these guys >> https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-best-engineers-at-Google-Why >> And also tech business leaders who can influence the CXO crowd. >> >> >> Robin Dymond, CST >> Managing Partner, Innovel >> www.innovel.net >> www.scrumtraining.com >> Direct: (804) 239-4329 >> twitter: @robindymond >> Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond >> >> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 9:17 AM Ron Jeffries <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Robin, >>> >>> Nice to see you here! >>> >>> sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine. >>> [email protected] is a better address for me, maybe. >>> >>> > On Dec 4, 2019, at 12:58 AM, R Dymond <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > Being in the Scrum camp more than XP, in every CSM I overview in >>> detail TDD, CI, Pairing, Mobbing and Swarming. Also explain that you h= ave >>> to look at XP, not Scrum for great ideas on how to make great quality >>> software. >>> >>> I wish we knew how many CSTs do that. I think what we do know is that >>> even that apparently doesn't work, as your own story below tells. >>> > >>> > I am at a loss on how to sell these ideas though. At a client who I >>> started working with Scrum in 2010 I have trained most the staff on Sc= rum. >>> They have over 1000 developers. We sold a total of 2 XP/TDD immersion >>> courses with a well known XP Coach after strenuous internal marketing = from >>> HR and finally a Dev Sr Mgr assigning people to the classes. This same >>> company spends millions per year on dev training and regularly sell ou= t >>> courses on Swift, C++, python, r, react, vmware, AWS, Azure, tensorflo= w >>> etc. etc. Budget isn't the issue, demand for XP practices training is = the >>> struggle. >>> > >>> > So in 20 years we still do not have the business case we need to >>> convince developers to widely adopt and spread these ideas. >>> >>> It's a puzzlement. I've been talking with Howard Sublett (Scrum Allian= ce >>> Chief Product Owner, for those who don't know) about the developer pro= blem. >>> He's interested, and I think he'd put some money behind it, but I'm at= a >>> loss as to how to effectively help. It's not clear what to do. >>> >>> Ah well, >>> >>> R >>> >>> >>> >>> >>=20 > > -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#160445): https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/messag= e/160445 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047 Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/61983806= 5/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D-=3D- --000000000000d8f1a10598fd005e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto"><div>What a great way to phrase it!<br><br><div class=3D"= gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Dec 5, 2019, 21:= 36 George Paci <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>>= wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8= ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div> <p>I am definitely stealing this term and spreading it.</p> <p>"If you want to do Continuous Delivery, you need to do Continu= ous Integration. And if you want to do Continuous Integration, you need to do Continuous Coding."</p> <p>Memorable.=C2=A0 Also true.</p> <p>=E2=80=94George</p> <p>=C2=A0 Laziness is nothing more than the habit of resting before yo= u get tired.<br> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Jules Renard<br> <br> </p> <div>On 12/4/19 5:33 PM, Avi Kessner wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div dir=3D"auto">If I were to market XP today I would call it "Continuous Coding". So you do CC, then CI, then CD.=C2= =A0 You could shorten this to C3, and bring XP back in a full circle.</div> <br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec 4, 2019, 23:22 Slava Imeshev via Groups.Io <imeshev=3D<a href=3D"mailto:yaho= [email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">[email protected]</= a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde= r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"> <div>Robin,</div> <div><br> </div> I think it=E2=80=99s a great idea to build a sellable brand fo= r XP. How about 'Effective Programming', as in delivering re= sults? <div><br> </div> <div>Slava</div> <div><br> <div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div>On Dec 4, 2019, at 10:42 AM, R Dymond <<a href= =3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_b= lank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:</div> <br> <div> <div dir=3D"auto"> <div dir=3D"auto">Hey Ron! <div dir=3D"auto"><br> </div> <div dir=3D"auto">Yes I believe Howard could invest *a lot* if he saw a route to growing these practices.</div> <div dir=3D"auto"><br> </div> <div dir=3D"auto">A couple ideas:</div> <div dir=3D"auto">Agree that this needs a major rebranding. "Safe" sells, "extrem= e" is a terrible brand for an industry practice. James Gosling, working at Sun got marketing and branding involved and thats why we got the great branding for Java.</div> <div dir=3D"auto"><br> </div> <div dir=3D"auto">How do we make these ideas cool? Can we get the top tech celebrities advocating and pitching for these ideas? By celebs I mean mainstream tech celebs like Linus Torvalds, some of these guys=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.q= uora.com/Who-are-the-best-engineers-at-Google-Why" rel=3D"noreferrer norefe= rrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-best-engineers-at= -Google-Why</a><br> And also tech business leaders who can influence the CXO crowd.</div> <div dir=3D"auto"><br> </div> <div dir=3D"auto"><br> <div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature" dir=3D"a= uto">Robin Dymond, CST<br> Managing Partner, Innovel<br> <a href=3D"http://www.innovel.net/" rel=3D"nor= eferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">www.innovel.net</a><br> <a href=3D"http://www.scrumtraining.com/" rel= =3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">www.scrumtraining.= com</a><br> Direct: (804) 239-4329<br> twitter: @robindymond<br> Linkedin:=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.linkedin= .com/in/robindymond" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_bl= ank">https://www.linkedin.com/in/robindymond</a></div> </div> </div> <br> <div class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Dec = 4, 2019, 9:17 AM Ron Jeffries <<a href=3D"mailto= :[email protected]" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target= =3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:= 0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Robin,<br> <br> Nice to see you here!<br> <br> sent from iPad, probably via Mars. Errors, if any, are not mine.<br> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"no= referrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">ronjeffries@ac= m.org</a> is a better address for me, maybe.<br> <br> > On Dec 4, 2019, at 12:58 AM, R Dymond <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel= =3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">rdymond= @innovel.net</a>> wrote:<br> > <br> > Being in the Scrum camp more than XP, in every CSM I overview in detail TDD, CI, Pairing, Mobbing and Swarming. Also explain that you have to look at XP,=C2=A0 not Scrum for great ideas on how to make great quality software.<br> <br> I wish we knew how many CSTs do that. I think what we do know is that even that apparently doesn't work, as your own story below tells.= <br> > <br> > I am at a loss on how to sell these ideas though. At a client who I started working with Scrum in 2010 I have trained most the staff on Scrum. They have over 1000 developers. We sold a total of 2 XP/TDD immersion courses with a well known XP Coach after strenuous internal marketing from HR and finally a Dev Sr Mgr assigning people to the classes. This same company spends millions per year on dev training and regularly sell out courses on Swift, C++, python, r, react, vmware, AWS, Azure, tensorflow etc. etc. Budget isn't the issue, demand for XP practices training is the struggle.<br> > <br> > So in 20 years we still do not have the business case we need to convince developers to widely adopt and spread these ideas.<br> <br> It's a puzzlement. I've been talking wit= h Howard Sublett (Scrum Alliance Chief Product Owner, for those who don't know) about the developer problem. He's interested, and I think he'd put some money behind it, but I&#= 39;m at a loss as to how to effectively help. It'= s not clear what to do.<br> <br> Ah well,<br> <br> R<br> <br> <br> <br> </blockquote> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> </div> <p></p><p></p></blockquote></div></div></div> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> Groups.io Links:<p> You receive all messages sent to this group. <p> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/messag= e/160445">View/Reply Online (#160445)</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject= = =3DRe:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20changed%20for%20y= ou%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Group</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DPri= vate:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20changed%20for= %20you%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Sender</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047">Mu= te This Topic</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/post">New Topic</a><br= > <br> <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/editsub/2417047">Your Su= bscription</a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Contact Group Owner<= /a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/619838065/= xyzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [[email protected]]<br> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> --000000000000d8f1a10598fd005e--