Re: [extremeprogramming] What has changed for you over the past 20 years?
"Eb Alson" <[email protected]> Fri, 6 Dec 2019 17:26:59 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.programming.extreme-programming |
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| Message-ID | <CANEY99aL+XrpeYmQq_aGbD57jTGsqodJVRiSRddP9Hr21PGdXw@mail.gmail.com> |
--000000000000fa048b0599108bf5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Teaching only goes so far. "You can only tell, if it is a request or a demand, by how I treat you, if you don't do it." Non-Violent Communication , Marshal B. Rosenberg You can teach all day but if you don't mandate then it's optional. The entire team could decide post-teaching they want to do it. Maybe. On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 4:54 PM JeffGrigg <[email protected]> wrote: > There's a lot to be said for teaching one's employees the skills and > knowledge you require them to have. And something to be said for hiring > people who have these skills, or are at least open to learning them. > > > And I *used to be* that good at pool -- only bank shots allowed. ;-> > > > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 1:11 PM James Grenning <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Mandating TDD would be like mandating that all shots in pool be bank >> shots. Unless someone had the skill in bank shots, not many balks will be >> pocketed. >> >> TDD and bank shots require skill to execute. Skills take time to learn. >> >> Mandating test automation is a business decision, as the cost of manual >> retest is so high. There are skills to learn here too, though maybe less >> difficult to get started. >> >> James >> >> ... > >> > > -- blog: http://eikonne.wordpress.com LinkedIn: http://linkedin.com/in/ebenezer-ikonne twitter: @eikonne -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#160477): https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/message/160477 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047 Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/619838065/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- --000000000000fa048b0599108bf5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Teaching only goes so far.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div>= <div><div lang=3D"en" dir=3D"auto" class=3D"gmail-css-901oao gmail-r-hkyrab= gmail-r-1qd0xha gmail-r-1blvdjr gmail-r-16dba41 gmail-r-ad9z0x gmail-r-bcq= eeo gmail-r-19yat4t gmail-r-bnwqim gmail-r-qvutc0" style=3D"border:0px soli= d black;box-sizing:border-box;color:rgb(20,23,26);display:inline;font-varia= nt-numeric:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-s= ize:23px;line-height:1.3125;font-family:system-ui,-apple-system,BlinkMacSys= temFont,"Segoe UI",Roboto,Ubuntu,"Helvetica Neue",sans-= serif;margin:0px;padding:0px 0px 15px;white-space:pre-wrap;min-width:0px"><= span class=3D"gmail-css-901oao gmail-css-16my406 gmail-r-1qd0xha gmail-r-ad= 9z0x gmail-r-bcqeeo gmail-r-qvutc0" style=3D"border:0px solid black;box-siz= ing:border-box;color:inherit;display:inline;font-style:inherit;font-variant= :inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-stretch:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-he= ight:1.3125;font-family:system-ui,-apple-system,BlinkMacSystemFont,"Se= goe UI",Roboto,Ubuntu,"Helvetica Neue",sans-serif;margin:0px= ;padding:0px;white-space:inherit;min-width:0px">"You can only tell, if= it is a request or a demand, by how I treat you, if you don't do it.&q= uot; Non-Violent Communication , Marshal B. Rosenberg</span></div><div class=3D= "gmail-css-1dbjc4n gmail-r-1awozwy gmail-r-18u37iz gmail-r-1wtj0ep gmail-r-= ku1wi2" style=3D"border:0px solid black;box-sizing:border-box;display:flex;= margin:0px 0px 15px;min-height:0px;min-width:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,= 0);font-family:Times;font-size:15px"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail-css-1dbj= c4n gmail-r-1awozwy gmail-r-18u37iz gmail-r-1wtj0ep gmail-r-ku1wi2" style= =3D"border:0px solid black;box-sizing:border-box;display:flex;margin:0px 0= px 15px;min-height:0px;min-width:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-fami= ly:Times;font-size:15px">You can teach all day but if you don't mandate= then it's optional. The entire team could decide post-teaching they wa= nt to do it. Maybe.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"l= tr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 4:54 PM JeffGrigg <<a hr= ef=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>>= wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px = 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir= = =3D"ltr"><div>There's a lot to be said for teaching one's employee= s the skills and knowledge you require them to have. And something to be sa= id for hiring people who have these skills, or are at least open to learnin= g them.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>And I <i>used to be</i> tha= t good at pool -- only bank shots allowed.=C2=A0 =C2=A0;-></div><div><br= ></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr"= >On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 1:11 PM James Grenning <<a href=3D"mailto:james@= wingman-sw.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></= div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor= der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div id=3D"gmail-m_-2= 152182896189032559gmail-m_-905982978602257060edo-message"><div>Mandating TD= D would be like mandating that all shots in pool be bank shots.=C2=A0 Unles= s someone had the skill in bank shots,=C2=A0 not many balks will be pockete= d.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>TDD and bank shots require skill to execu= te.=C2=A0 Skills take time to learn.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Mandati= ng test automation is a business decision, as the cost of manual retest is = so high. There are skills to learn here too, though maybe less difficult to= get started.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>James<div id=3D"gmail-m_-21521= 82896189032559gmail-m_-905982978602257060edo-signature"></div></div><div><b= r></div></div></blockquote><div>...</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" = style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pa= dding-left:1ex"> <p></p><p></p></blockquote></div></div> <p></p><p></p></blockquote></div><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>blog: = <a href=3D"http://eikonne.wordpress.com/" rel=3D"me nofollow" target=3D"_bl= ank">http://eikonne.wordpress.com</a></div><div>LinkedIn: <a href=3D"http:/= /linkedin.com/in/ebenezer-ikonne" target=3D"_blank">http://linkedin.com/in/= ebenezer-ikonne</a></div> <div>twitter: @eikonne</div></div></div></div></div> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> <hr> Groups.io Links:<p> You receive all messages sent to this group. <p> <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/messag= e/160477">View/Reply Online (#160477)</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject= = =3DRe:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20changed%20for%20y= ou%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Group</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DPriva= te:%20Re:%20Re%3A%20%5Bextremeprogramming%5D%20What%20has%20changed%20for%2= 0you%20over%20the%20past%2020%20years%3F">Reply To Sender</a> | <a target=3D"_blank" href=3D"https://groups.io/mt/39418691/2417047">Mu= te This Topic</a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/post">New Topic</a><br= > <br> <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/editsub/2417047">Your Su= bscription</a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">Contact Group Owner<= /a> | <a href=3D"https://groups.io/g/extremeprogramming/leave/4902963/619838065/= xyzzy">Unsubscribe</a> [[email protected]]<br> <div width=3D"1" style=3D"color:white;clear:both">_._,_._,_</div> --000000000000fa048b0599108bf5--