Re: L3 DSR

Oh dear, I would NEVER suggest such a thing. I was just having fun at a
friend’s expense.  Plus, I’m pretty big, but Bruno is scrappy! But, Interop
*is* coming up; hmmmmm.  Maybe we should at least have some sort of
lb-digest get-together.  Anyone else going to be there?

 

And I am SO tempted to lay odds on the A10 vs. Netscaler; but my
professionalism keeps me from doing so. Can you have a favorite competitor?
J

 

KJ (Ken) Salchow, Jr.  |  Manager, Technical Marketing

 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Dane Ruyle
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 5:34 PM
To: Load Baalancing
Subject: Re: [load balancing] L3 DSR

 

 
Yes!  Let's start with A10 vs Netscaler!  :)
 
*the crowd goes wild!*
 
 

 

  _____  

Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:11:09 -0700
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [load balancing] L3 DSR

Ken,

 

Do you mean to say that A10 is... the dark side?

 

You know, we haven't had a good smack-down on lb-digest for quite some time.
Forget about performance tests and certifications... we need lb-UFC!

 

-Shawn  :)

 



 

2009/3/31 Kenneth Salchow <[email protected]>

You know—there was a time when Bruno was my protégé, now, sadly, like Anakin
. . . J
 
Seriously,  I’m not sure I see how you would use DSCP markings in the
scenario we were talking about?  Can you enlighten your old mentor?  You
know—they moved me into marketing—so please use small words and pictures if
you can.  J 

 

KJ (Ken) Salchow, Jr.  |  Manager, Technical Marketing

 

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Bruno Van Dierendonck
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:30 PM 


To: 'Load Balancing Mailing List'
Subject: Re: [load balancing] L3 DSR

 

 

In L3 DSR the trick is getting the server to respond with the vip address
when responding to load balanced requests. With L2 DSR you can easily use
the source MAC, but with L3 this becomes more challenging. A good way to do
this is with DSCP. Assuming of course that your router does not manipulate
DSCP flags. This way the receiving server can distinguish content from the
load balancer vs other network traffic. This is nice if you have hundreds or
thousands of servers, as you can split your broadcast domains into smaller
groups. This is probably not a concern for most customers, but hey if you
have this problem it’s a pretty nice solution.

 

Bruno

Senior System Engineer

A10 Networks

  _____  

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Joo Yong-Seok
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 10:15 AM
To: Load Balancing Mailing List
Subject: Re: [load balancing] L3 DSR

 

Hello,

 

VIP health check should be done with real-server MAC address (as a Dmac) and

DIP (request packet) should not be changed since all real-servers have the
loop-back

interfaces. (that's DSR and return packets don't need to be forwarded back
to L4)

 

I'm not quite sure about this topology but in Alteon and other L4 case, it
looks like having a

n issue.  ;-)

Best regards,

 

- yongseok

 

2009/3/30 SungLyeol Choi <[email protected]>

Hello.

 

I think those are normal DSR even though L4 is connect to L3 and has two
different network.

my question was 

 

Clients

   |
   |       <http://192.168.10.0/24> 192.168.10.0/24, VIP : 192.168.10.100
   |

L2 or L3-SW ==== L4 SW
   |
   |      172.16.10.1/24 

L3 SW

   l
   |        <http://10.10.10.0/24> 10.10.10.0/24
Servers

 

it means Server should be located in other network. my customer told me some
vendors mentioned that.

in this topology L4 should send client traffic to Server by L3 SW.

 

thanks.

 

 

Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:22:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Surya ARBY < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
Subject: Re: [load balancing] L3 DSR
To: Load Balancing Mailing List < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
Message-ID: < <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" 



Hello.

I guess it protects against L2 broadcast because you can build L2 isolation
by constraining? return traffic to go to the routing point of the network,
thus limiting flooding, that's the only sense I take from the sentence :)

Surya

--- En date de?: Lun 30.3.09, Kenneth Salchow < <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]> a ?crit?: 


De: Kenneth Salchow < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
Objet: Re: [load balancing] L3 DSR
?: "Load Balancing Mailing List" < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
Date: Lundi 30 Mars 2009, 17h59












Maybe I?m forgetting something, but I believe *all*
DSR (direct server return) is L3.? L2 DSR wouldn?t be too useful
unless you had one really, really big, flat, private network, would it?

 ?

Most vendors support this type of configuration in one way or
the other?but I also don?t know of any that recommend the
configuration, except for very specific circumstances.? But?even in
video streaming these days, there are benefits to running the traffic back
through
the ADC in order to manage out-bound traffic flow?and there are plenty of
boxes that can handle the throughput.

 ?

So?when you talk about ?protecting L2 Broadcast??what
exactly are you trying to do and why?

 ?

--and, if I?m being complete silly, please forgive me?it
is Monday morning.? J

 ?

KJ (Ken) Salchow, Jr.??|??Manager,
Technical Marketing

 ?



From:  <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
[mailto: <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]] On Behalf
Of SungLyeol Choi

Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:46 AM

To:  <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]

Subject: [load balancing] L3 DSR



 ?

Hi guys.



 ?





Have you heard about L3 DSR?





which vendors support this?





I heard L3 DSR could protect L2
broadcast. but I think LB should consider a lot of things to support that.





 ?





Thanks.







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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:25:39 -0700
From: Joo Yong-Seok < <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [load balancing] L3 DSR
To: Load Balancing Mailing List < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
Message-ID:
       <
<mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 



I suppsoe that L2 or L3 config doesn't matter. the important thing in DSR is
"returning packet" should
not be forwarded to L4 and L4 should not do any processing for that.

Clients
   |
   |       <http://192.168.10.0/24> 192.168.10.0/24, VIP : 192.168.10.100
   |
L3-SW ==== L4 SW
   |
   |
   |        <http://10.10.10.0/24> 10.10.10.0/24
Servers

In this topoloty, L4 can have two interfaces for  <http://192.168.10.0/24>
192.168.10.0/24 and
 <http://10.10.10.0/24> 10.10.10.0/24. In Servers point of
view, GW should be L3-SW. Client requests will be forwarded to L3 but L3
knows the VIP location (L4)
and it will forward the request via L2-fwd.

L4 will do a client processing and send the packet to Servers. In this
moment, DSR should be enabled
and request packet's DIP is not modified. and Server will received the
packet and then forward it to L3-SW
since L3-SW is a gateway for servers.

I suppose that this is L3 DSR and return packet will not traverse to L4.

Also, L4-SW is in the same network with servers, health check by using 


real-mac (VIPhealth) is also
working and No mac flapping. (Since L4 is doing L3 fwd + L4 processing and
packet's SIP should be
modified. L3-SW will not have any duplicate mac-address entry in the fdb. -
Even there are same mac
in fdb, if VLAN is different, there should be no issues to do a L2-fwd).

I have no idea why L2 broadcast issue is there on DSR. (do you mean
"mac-flapping"? - this can cause
flooding in the network).

Best regards,

- yongseok

2009/3/30 SungLyeol Choi < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>

> Hi guys.
> Have you heard about L3 DSR?
> which vendors support this?
> I heard L3 DSR could protect L2 broadcast. but I think LB should consider
a
> lot of things to support that.
>
> Thanks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> lb-l mailing list
>  <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
>  <http://vegan.net/mailman/listinfo/lb-l>
http://vegan.net/mailman/listinfo/lb-l
> Searchable Archive:  <http://vegan.net/lb/archive>
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>
>

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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 10:43:17 -0700
From: Joo Yong-Seok < <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [load balancing] L3 DSR
To: Load Balancing Mailing List < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
Message-ID:
       <
<mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" 



There is TYPO.

SIP ---> SMAC.

Best regards,

- yongseok

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 10:25 AM, Joo Yong-Seok <
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>wrote:

> I suppsoe that L2 or L3 config doesn't matter. the important thing in DSR
> is "returning packet" should
> not be forwarded to L4 and L4 should not do any processing for that.
>
> Clients
>     |
>     |       <http://192.168.10.0/24> 192.168.10.0/24, VIP : 192.168.10.100
>     |
> L3-SW ==== L4 SW
>     |
>     |
>     |        <http://10.10.10.0/24> 10.10.10.0/24
> Servers
>
> In this topoloty, L4 can have two interfaces for  <http://192.168.10.0/24>
192.168.10.0/24 and
>  <http://10.10.10.0/24> 10.10.10.0/24. In Servers point of
> view, GW should be L3-SW. Client requests will be forwarded to L3 but L3
> knows the VIP location (L4)
> and it will forward the request via L2-fwd.
>
> L4 will do a client processing and send the packet to Servers. In this
> moment, DSR should be enabled
> and request packet's DIP is not modified. and Server will received the
> packet and then forward it to L3-SW
> since L3-SW is a gateway for servers.
>
> I suppose that this is L3 DSR and return packet will not traverse to L4.
>

> Also, L4-SW is in the same network with servers, health check by using 


> real-mac (VIPhealth) is also
> working and No mac flapping. (Since L4 is doing L3 fwd + L4 processing and
> packet's SIP should be
> modified. L3-SW will not have any duplicate mac-address entry in the fdb.
-
> Even there are same mac
> in fdb, if VLAN is different, there should be no issues to do a L2-fwd).
>
> I have no idea why L2 broadcast issue is there on DSR. (do you mean
> "mac-flapping"? - this can cause
> flooding in the network).
>
> Best regards,
>
> - yongseok
>
> 2009/3/30 SungLyeol Choi < <mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]>
>

>>  Hi guys.
>> Have you heard about L3 DSR?
>> which vendors support this?
>> I heard L3 DSR could protect L2 broadcast. but I think LB should consider
>> a lot of things to support that.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>

 


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