Re: Re : SSL w/ PCI best practices
Kenneth Salchow <[email protected]> Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:56:03 -0800
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.programming.load-balancing.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <4B18A8F75A6384449755BC7784073E9360EF81FFC6@exch11.olympus.f5net.com> |
--===============0426857873== Content-Language: en-US Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01CAB0AA.7C782D20" ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CAB0AA.7C782D20 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0009_01CAB0AA.7C782D20" ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01CAB0AA.7C782D20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Good point Tony=E2=80=94don=E2=80=99t want to upset the global CA gods = do we? J =20 KJ (Ken) Salchow, Jr. | Manager, Technical Marketing D 651.423.1133 M 612.868.1258 P 206.272.5555 F 206.272.5555 <http://www.f5.com/> www.f5.com =20 =20 From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf = Of Tony Bourke Sent: Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [load balancing] Re : SSL w/ PCI best practices =20 Something to keep in mind is that when last I checked (which was a bit = ago) many SSL providers do require you to purchase an additional = *license* for each server on the back end for a given cert, even if = you're using a self-signed cert behind the load balancer or not = re-encrypting. On a purely technical level, you only need one SSL = certificate, but on a licensing level, many CAs licenses require you = purchase an additional license for each server. Got three servers and a = pair of load balancers? You need to buy one cert and two additional = licenses. So be sure to check your SSL providers licenses.=20 How this translates into VMs, Multi-cores, etc., I'm not sure.=20 Tony =20 On 2/18/2010 11:28 AM, Surya ARBY wrote:=20 Hello David. Some examples : - you can use self signed certificates on the server side, while you = have only one public certificate on your SSL accelerator - you can leverage TCP reuse / http multiplexing / SSL reuse to reduce = the number of SSL handshakes on the server side even if some entities on = the client side do not support it. - using a SSL hardware card (only one) in the LB is far more scalable = than processing all the SSL load in software on the servers (you can put = SSL cards in the servers too but byuing SSL cards for each servers can = become quite expensive :) ) - you can use different ciphers on the front end and the back end (for = example : AES / sha1 on the client side, RC4+md5 on the server side) to = reduce the load on the servers etc... regards, Surya --- En date de : Jeu 18.2.10, Van Ceylon, David = <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> a = =C3=A9crit : De: Van Ceylon, David <mailto:[email protected]> = <[email protected]> Objet: [load balancing] SSL w/ PCI best practices =C3=80: "'Load Balancing Mailing List'" <mailto:[email protected]> = <[email protected]> Date: Jeudi 18 f=C3=A9vrier 2010, 20h00 Hello =E2=80=93=20 =20 I have a question regarding the use of SSL while trying to maintain PCI = compliance. If a load balancer/SSL accelerator is handling SSL, what = advantage is that in terms of SSL offload if we must re-encrypt back to = the servers? This essentially limits the load balancer to URI = inspection and distributing traffic. There seems to be no advantage to = handling Certs (other than wildcard) or de-encryption. Forgive my = ignorance but I=E2=80=99m looking for basic best practices in this = situation. =20 Thanks! =20 David VanCeylon =20 =20 _____ =20 This communication is the property of Qwest and may contain confidential = or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is = strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and = destroy all copies of the communication and any attachments. -----La pi=C3=A8ce jointe associ=C3=A9e suit----- _______________________________________________ lb-l mailing list [email protected] http://vegan.net/mailman/listinfo/lb-l Searchable Archive: http://vegan.net/lb/archive http://lbdigest.com Load Balancing Digest http://lbwiki.com Load Balancing Wiki =20 =20 _______________________________________________ lb-l mailing list [email protected] http://vegan.net/mailman/listinfo/lb-l Searchable Archive: http://vegan.net/lb/archive http://lbdigest.com Load Balancing Digest http://lbwiki.com Load Balancing Wiki =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01CAB0AA.7C782D20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> <head> <meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"> <meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 12 (filtered medium)"> <!--[if !mso]> <style> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </style> <![endif]--> <style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Wingdings; panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:inherit; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} @font-face {font-family:Consolas; panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif"; color:black;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} pre {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char"; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New"; color:black;} span.emailstyle17 {mso-style-name:emailstyle17;} span.emailstyle171 {mso-style-name:emailstyle171; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:windowtext;} span.HTMLPreformattedChar {mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted"; font-family:Consolas; color:black;} span.EmailStyle21 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-size:10.0pt;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--> </head> <body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3D"#000000"> <div class=3DSection1> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>Good point Tony=E2=80=94don=E2=80=99t want to upset the = global CA gods do we? </span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><s= pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D425 = style=3D'width:318.75pt'> <tr> <td colspan=3D5 style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'>KJ (Ken) Salchow, Jr.</span></b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> | Manager, Technical Marketing</span><span = style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> </td> </tr> <tr style=3D'height:9.0pt'> <td width=3D84 style=3D'width:63.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height:9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:#333333'>D 651.423.1133</span></b><span = style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> <td width=3D84 style=3D'width:63.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height:9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>M = 612.868.1258</span></b><span = style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> </td> <td width=3D84 style=3D'width:63.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height:9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>P = 206.272.5555</span></b><span = style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> </td> <td width=3D84 style=3D'width:63.0pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height:9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>F = 206.272.5555</span></b><span = style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></s= pan></p> </td> <td width=3D69 style=3D'width:51.75pt;padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt = .75pt;height: 9.0pt'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'line-height:9.0pt'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'><a = href=3D"http://www.f5.com/"><span style=3D'color:#333333'>www.f5.com</span></a></span></b><span = style=3D'font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </td> </tr> </table> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div> <div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt = 0in 0in 0in'> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span= style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowt= ext'> [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] <b>On Behalf Of = </b>Tony Bourke<br> <b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 18, 2010 2:11 PM<br> <b>To:</b> [email protected]<br> <b>Subject:</b> Re: [load balancing] Re : SSL w/ PCI best = practices<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Something to keep in = mind is that when last I checked (which was a bit ago) many SSL providers do require = you to purchase an additional *license* for each server on the back end for a = given cert, even if you're using a self-signed cert behind the load balancer = or not re-encrypting. On a purely technical level, you only need one SSL certificate, but on a licensing level, many CAs licenses require you = purchase an additional license for each server. Got three servers and a = pair of load balancers? You need to buy one cert and two additional licenses. So be sure to check your SSL providers licenses. = <br> <br> How this translates into VMs, Multi-cores, etc., I'm not sure. <br> <br> Tony<br> <br> <br> <br> On 2/18/2010 11:28 AM, Surya ARBY wrote: <o:p></o:p></p> <table class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 = width=3D624 style=3D'width:6.5in;margin-left:.5in'> <tr> <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:0in 0in 0in = 0in;font-style:inherit;font-variant: = inherit;font-weight:inherit;font-size:inherit;line-height:inherit;font-si= ze-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit;-x-system-font: none'> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>Hello David.<br> <br> Some examples :<br> <br> - you can use self signed certificates on the server side, while you = have only one public certificate on your SSL accelerator<br> <br> - you can leverage TCP reuse / http multiplexing / SSL reuse to reduce = the number of SSL handshakes on the server side even if some entities on = the client side do not support it.<br> <br> - using a SSL hardware card (only one) in the LB is far more scalable = than processing all the SSL load in software on the servers (you can put = SSL cards in the servers too but byuing SSL cards for each servers can become = quite expensive :) )<br> <br> - you can use different ciphers on the front end and the back end (for example : AES / sha1 on the client side, RC4+md5 on the server side) = to reduce the load on the servers<br> <br> etc...<br> <br> regards,<br> <br> Surya<br> <br> --- En date de : <b>Jeu 18.2.10, Van Ceylon, David <i><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]&g= t;</a></i></b> a =C3=A9crit :<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span = style=3D'font-family: "inherit","serif"'><br> De: Van Ceylon, David <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]&g= t;</a><br> Objet: [load balancing] SSL w/ PCI best practices<br> =C3=80: "'Load Balancing Mailing List'" <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a><br> Date: Jeudi 18 f=C3=A9vrier 2010, 20h00<o:p></o:p></span></p> <div id=3Dyiv1752802633> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Hello = =E2=80=93 </span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span>= <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>I have a = question regarding the use of SSL while trying to maintain PCI compliance. = If a load balancer/SSL accelerator is handling SSL, what advantage is that = in terms of SSL offload if we must re-encrypt back to the servers? = This essentially limits the load balancer to URI inspection and = distributing traffic. There seems to be no advantage to handling Certs (other = than wildcard) or de-encryption. Forgive my ignorance but I=E2=80=99m = looking for basic best practices in this situation.</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span>= <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Thanks!</span= ><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> </span>= <o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>David = VanCeylon</span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><= /o:p></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p> <div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter = style=3D'text-align:center'><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'> <hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter> </span></div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:gray'>This communication is the property of Qwest and may = contain confidential or<br> privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is = strictly<br> prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this = communication<br> in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and = destroy<br> all copies of the communication and any attachments.</span><span style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'><o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span = style=3D'font-family: "inherit","serif"'><br> -----La pi=C3=A8ce jointe associ=C3=A9e = suit-----<o:p></o:p></span></p> <div> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-family:"inherit","serif"'>_________________________________= ______________<br> lb-l mailing list<br> <a href=3D"/mc/[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br> <a href=3D"http://vegan.net/mailman/listinfo/lb-l" = target=3D"_blank">http://vegan.net/mailman/listinfo/lb-l</a><br> Searchable Archive: <a href=3D"http://vegan.net/lb/archive" = target=3D"_blank">http://vegan.net/lb/archive</a><br> <a href=3D"http://lbdigest.com" = target=3D"_blank">http://lbdigest.com</a> Load Balancing Digest<br> <a href=3D"http://lbwiki.com" target=3D"_blank">http://lbwiki.com</a> = Load Balancing Wiki<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </td> </tr> </table> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><br> <br> <o:p></o:p></p> <pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre = style=3D'margin-left: .5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre = style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>______________________________________________= _<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>lb-l mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><a = href=3D"http://vegan.net/mailman/listinfo/lb-l">http://vegan.net/mailman/= listinfo/lb-l</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>Searchable Archive: <a href=3D"http://vegan.net/lb/archive">http://vegan.net/lb/archive</a><o:p>= </o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><a = href=3D"http://lbdigest.com">http://lbdigest.com</a> Load Balancing = Digest<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><a = href=3D"http://lbwiki.com">http://lbwiki.com</a> Load Balancing = Wiki<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></pre> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> </body> </html> ------=_NextPart_001_0009_01CAB0AA.7C782D20-- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01CAB0AA.7C782D20 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; 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