RE: [AM] The Spiral Model

Mark,

I can't disagree with anything you say here... it seemed to me that the
discussion was focusing on comparing the logistics aspect of agile ( your #1
below ) to the Spiral model. That makes some sense since it's what they have
in common. It's also what most academic discussions seem to focus on - for
the same reason.

The only problem with this approach is that it makes the comparison by
ignoring the very strength of the agile approaches. It's only /because/ of
the values that we can strip away so much process overhead and still be
successful. That's where a simple comparison of logistic approaches seems to
me to fall a bit short.

Nevertheless an interesting comparison.

Charlie


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Graybill [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:50 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [AM] The Spiral Model
>
>
> The Agile manifesto is a set of values, not processes.  I believe it is
> intended to for the most part to gear processes to focus on direct human
> interaction.
>
> Spiral, although with perhaps hallmark implementations, is simply a
> different method of logistics more amenable to evolutionary projects than
> others.  It is being taught in schools based on concept and fundamentals,
> not implementation - this is the viewpoint I was taking on it.
>
> You can use a method such as a Spiral method and focus on non-human
> interaction or human interaction - both would be considered an Spiral
> implementation.  The latter would likely be measured as being "Agile"
>
> Then again, here we are with terms:
>
> Spiral -
> 1) fundamental process methodology as now being taught as one
> process method
> (process methodological precepts named Spiral)
> 2) a particular implementation or operational description reflecting
> original introduction of the use of the process.
>
> Agility -
> 1) minimal process overhead required for organized and manageable
> development of software measured uniquely for every organization, product
> and/or project.
> 2) logistics/operations of a process implement would be regarded as having
> underlying values matching the Agile Manifesto or closer to
> matching it than
> what would traditionally be so.
> 3) <description #1 adorned with description #2> <i.e. XP>
>
> It could be argued that Spiral (or any other evolutionary process) could
> have more process overhead than traditional methods.
>
> Mark.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Charlie Poole" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2004 12:05 AM
> Subject: RE: [AM] The Spiral Model
>
>
> > Having read the question and ensuing answers I'm struck that nobody has
> > mentioned this:
> >
> > Agile methods deal with people and how they work together. Historically,
> > this has been
> > "out of scope" for software development methodologies. If we compare
> > approaches while
> > abstracting away this important difference, they may appear
> similar, just
> as
> > an auto
> > is like a wagon if you abstract away the source of motive power.
> >
> > When we choose to abstract away people in our discussion, we are being
> > non-agile ourselves.
> >
> > Charlie Poole
> > [email protected]
> > www.pooleconsulting.com
> > www.charliepoole.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: guillermo camilo [mailto:[email protected]]
> > > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:14 PM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Cc: [email protected]; [email protected];
> > > [email protected]
> > > Subject: [AM] The Spiral Model
> > >
> > >
> > > hi everybody
> > > after  a list of readings about this subject , the spiral model
> > > for software
> > > developer (of dr Barry Boehm), i got one question
> > > i hope, despite, you maybe found it obvious, all of you, wouldn't
> > > bother to
> > > help me to find the answer
> > >
> > > What is the main differences between the spiral model's
> concepts and the
> > > core of the agile methodologies???
> > >
> > > i see both of them are , in essence, iterative and incremental,
> > > so. how are
> > > we going to differentiate them?
> > >
> > > pls help
> > > i would welcome any comment you could have about this matter...
> > > thanks in advance
> > >
> > > Guillermo Camilo
> > > [email protected]
> > >
> > > www.lanoosfera.com
> > > www.oolanoosfera.com
> > >
> > > For more information about AM, visit the Agile Modeling Home Page
> > > at www.agilemodeling.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > For more information about AM, visit the Agile Modeling Home Page at
> www.agilemodeling.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> For more information about AM, visit the Agile Modeling Home Page
> at www.agilemodeling.com
>
>
>

For more information about AM, visit the Agile Modeling Home Page at www.agilemodeling.com
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