Re: Using refactoring to make code more testable Re: [refactoring] Using refactoring to make code more testable

Hi Hal:

You speak from experience, as I know first hand. I want to add a
couple of things to your list that might also help:

1) Having a supportive culture including things like high-level buy-in
from the organization, people who will work to enable you and provide
the things you needs, etc.

2) Hiring coaches, because they have two things you probably don't:
experience effecting change and addressing resistance, and the
"consultant mentality" - they make recommendations based on their own
experience without fear of reproach, and they are ready to leave as
soon as they aren't needed or wanted.

3) The thing about self-organization is that when you ask a team to
self-organize they might not end up where you wanted them to be. If it
takes two years to get people writing tests you either don't have the
right supportive culture or you might not have the right people. Find
the root cause and address that, don't expect a self-organizing team
to self-organize out of a corner it painted itself into (Because,
self-organization got you there, so it might not get you out without
some fundamental change.)

On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 10:15 AM, hal arnold <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Adrian Howard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> From: Adrian Howard <[email protected]>
>
> Subject: Re: [refactoring] Using refactoring to make code more testable Re: [refactoring] Using refactoring to make code more testable
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 4:21 AM
>
>
>
> On 13 Oct 2009, at 00:37, Schrecht wrote:
>
> > Michael Charland <mike_ch_1@hotmail. com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> Along similar lines, how do i get people to add tests? Most of the
>
> >> people I work
>
> >> with do not add any unit tests when submitting new code or fixing
>
> >> old bugs. It's
>
> >> a pretty generic question, but any approaches would help.
>
> >
>
> > These people who work with you: do they work _for_ you, or _near_ you?
>
> >
>
> > If the former, obviously, you can command them.
>
> Curiously enough I rarely find this works. You still need to do your
>
> option 2
>
> > If the latter, you must convince them.
>
> [snip]
>
> Adrian
> Yes, Adrian is correct. You can't command, you have to lead by example. As Richard has pointed out, you have a culture change, and culture changes take a very long time.If you are in charge: I would suggest starting with the most promising engineer(s) that report(s) to you, and if you have the skill, keep at it until that person is convinced; has had the 'aha' moment. Then have him/her train others, with you doing the same. Expect to take a couple of years; I'm not kidding.
> If you don't have the skill, get someone in that can actually do XP, it takes time and skill, but more than anything: patience and fortitude. Engineers aren't like factory workers, they will need to get 'there' on their own. But you have to be absolutely resolute on the direction; you have to know where you want to go and why. Most smart folks will eventually get it, if they respect your opinion and can see that you can 'walk the walk'.
> If you have folks on staff that you try to help, and just aren't going to 'get it', you will have to 'manage them out'. This is really poisonous to an organization; and has to be done with care. Don't just give up on people, prepare to be surprised.
> If they don't work for you: is the guy that everybody works for, 'on board'? If not, then you have a real problem.hope this helps,/h
>
> http://quietstars. com - twitter.com/ adrianh - delicious.com/ adrianh
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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