Re: [TFUI] Re: [TDD] Is a bad test better than no test at all?

Tim Ottinger <linux_tim-/[email protected]> Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:22:06 -0700 (PDT)
Newsgroups gmane.comp.programming.test-first-user-interfaces
Message-ID <[email protected]> 
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If the test runs quickly, returns true results (no tail chasing from false false negatives, no misdirection through false positives), then keep it.  It's useful.  If it sometimes returns false results or takes a long time, then fuzzy is bad.

Ultimately, I fall back on Michael Feathers' "1) runs quickly, 2) helps to isolate errors".  If it is too fuzzy for either of the criteria, it's too fuzzy.  Otherwise, not.   

----- Original Message ----
From: Phlip <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:53:27 AM
Subject: [TFUI] Re: [TDD] Is a bad test better than no test at all?









  


    
            Ben Rady wrote:



> I'm a project manager/technical lead at a company that builds tools for 2D

>  and 3D graphics, and my team is fully test infected. We've had a debate

>  going on for some time about what to do about inconsistent tests.



Your tests which run a long way from the tested code are insufficiently fuzzy?



>  ...But when we do find them they always suck a lot of time away

>  from the poor developer who's just trying to check in a change...



Can you get them to fail within 5 seconds of hitting the One Test

Button, while editing?



-- 

  Phlip

  http://c2.com/ cgi/wiki? ZeekLand  <-- NOT a blog!!



    
  

    
    




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            <p>If the test runs quickly, returns true results (no tail chasing from false false negatives, no misdirection through false positives), then keep it.  It's useful.  If it sometimes returns false results or takes a long time, then fuzzy is bad.<br>
<br>
Ultimately, I fall back on Michael Feathers' &quot;1) runs quickly, 2) helps to isolate errors&quot;.  If it is too fuzzy for either of the criteria, it's too fuzzy.  Otherwise, not.   <br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----<br>
From: Phlip &lt;<a href="mailto:phlip2005%40gmail.com">phlip2005@gmail.<wbr>com</a>&gt;<br>
To: <a href="mailto:testdrivendevelopment%40yahoogroups.com">testdrivendevelopme<wbr>nt@yahoogroups.<wbr>com</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:testfirstuserinterfaces%40yahoogroups.com">testfirstuserinterf<wbr>aces@yahoogroups<wbr>.com</a><br>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 9:53:27 AM<br>
Subject: [TFUI] Re: [TDD] Is a bad test better than no test at all?<br>
<br>
Ben Rady wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; I'm a project manager/technical lead at a company that builds tools for 2D<br>
<br>
&gt;  and 3D graphics, and my team is fully test infected. We've had a debate<br>
<br>
&gt;  going on for some time about what to do about inconsistent tests.<br>
<br>
Your tests which run a long way from the tested code are insufficiently fuzzy?<br>
<br>
&gt;  ...But when we do find them they always suck a lot of time away<br>
<br>
&gt;  from the poor developer who's just trying to check in a change...<br>
<br>
Can you get them to fail within 5 seconds of hitting the One Test<br>
<br>
Button, while editing?<br>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Phlip<br>
<br>
<a href="http://c2.com/">http://c2.com/</a> cgi/wiki? ZeekLand  &lt;-- NOT a blog!!<br>
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#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;}
#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;*font-size:100%;}
#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}
#ygrp-text{
    font-family: Georgia;	
}
#ygrp-text p{
    margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-tpmsgs{
    font-family: Arial;	
    clear: both;
}
#ygrp-vitnav{
	padding-top: 10px;
	font-family: Verdana;
	font-size: 77%;
	margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-vitnav a{
	padding: 0 1px;
}
#ygrp-actbar{
	clear: both;
	margin: 25px 0;
	white-space:nowrap;
	color: #666;
	text-align: right;
}
#ygrp-actbar .left{
	float: left;
	white-space:nowrap;
}
.bld{font-weight:bold;}
#ygrp-grft{
	font-family: Verdana;
	font-size: 77%;
	padding: 15px 0;
}
#ygrp-ft{
  font-family: verdana;
  font-size: 77%;
  border-top: 1px solid #666; 
  padding: 5px 0; 
}
#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{
  padding-bottom: 10px;
}

#ygrp-vital{
	background-color: #e0ecee;
	margin-bottom: 20px;
	padding: 2px 0 8px 8px;
}
#ygrp-vital #vithd{
	font-size: 77%;
	font-family: Verdana;
	font-weight: bold;
	color: #333;
	text-transform: uppercase;
}
#ygrp-vital ul{
	padding: 0;
	margin: 2px 0;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li{
  list-style-type: none;
  clear: both;
  border: 1px solid #e0ecee;  
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{
  font-weight: bold;
  color: #ff7900;
  float: right;
  width: 2em;
  text-align:right;
  padding-right: .5em;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{
  font-weight: bold;
}
#ygrp-vital a {
	text-decoration: none;
}

#ygrp-vital a:hover{
  text-decoration: underline;
}

#ygrp-sponsor #hd{
	color: #999;
	font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov{
	padding: 6px 13px;
	background-color: #e0ecee;
	margin-bottom: 20px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{
	padding: 0 0 0 8px;
	margin: 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{
	list-style-type: square;
	padding: 6px 0;
	font-size: 77%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{
	text-decoration: none;
	font-size: 130%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #nc {
  background-color: #eee;
  margin-bottom: 20px;
  padding: 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad{
	padding: 8px 0;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{
	font-family: Arial;
	font-weight: bold;
	color: #628c2a;
	font-size: 100%;
	line-height: 122%;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{
	text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{
	text-decoration: underline;
}
#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{
	margin: 0;
}
o {font-size: 0; }
.MsoNormal {
   margin: 0 0 0 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt{
  font-size: 120%;
}
blockquote{margin: 0 0 0 4px;}
.replbq {margin:4}
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html><!--End group email -->


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