RE: [TFUI] pytest is better than assert{ 2.0 } (except it's in Python! Bleah!)
"Tanksley, William D. Jr." <[email protected]> Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:07:16 -0800
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.programming.test-first-user-interfaces |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <8D4690C48BCDFB42A1C5B7DC5D24452C0B283738@0461-its-exmb01.us.saic.com> |
--g2HsJ9bCzN7zXz7g0MY4G6cWCnrMBterwu58OrF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes, and note that Python is finally getting rid of its "print" magic too. BASIC's PRINT statement is far from its only problem -- essentially the who= le language is a patchwork of special forms. ...and I'm not sure about the whole "is more important than" thing. I'm not= big on prescriptiveness in computer languages. Yes, reflection is a good t= hing; but it's not the _only_ thing. There is no perfect language, because = the universal law holds: "All software sucks." Tradeoffs everywhere. -Wm Tanksley > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [TFUI] pytest is better than assert{ 2.0 } (except it's in > Python! Bleah!) >=20 > > I don't think Go has any of the features I mentioned; in fact, of the > > features I've seen, only garbage collection is common to the two > > languages. In particular, Go doesn't have a prettyprinting assert > > statement, which is important in the context of this conversation :- > ). >=20 > Noted but I suspect the ability to build a reflecting assert, at the > language level, is more important than simply providing one. >=20 > The=A0cautionary tale here is BASIC's magic PRINT statement. It does > things nothing else in the language can do, because it's implemented > at the parser level. Don't do that! --g2HsJ9bCzN7zXz7g0MY4G6cWCnrMBterwu58OrF Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/htm= l4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> </head> <body style=3D"background-color: #fff;"> <span style=3D"display:none"> </span> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStartT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-mlmsg" style=3D"position:relative;"> <div id=3D"ygrp-msg" style=3D"z-index: 1;"> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEndT|**|-~--> <div id=3D"ygrp-text" > =20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20=20=20=20=20 <p>Yes, and note that Python is finally getting rid of its "prin= t" magic too.<br> <br> BASIC's PRINT statement is far from its only problem -- essentially the who= le language is a patchwork of special forms.<br> <br> ...and I'm not sure about the whole "is more important than" thin= g. I'm not big on prescriptiveness in computer languages. Yes, reflection i= s a good thing; but it's not the _only_ thing. There is no perfect language= , because the universal law holds: "All software sucks." Tradeoff= s everywhere.<br> <br> -Wm Tanksley<br> <br> > -----Original Message-----<br> > From: <a href=3D"mailto:TestFirstUserInterfaces%40yahoogroups.com">Tes= [email protected]</a><br> > Subject: Re: [TFUI] pytest is better than assert{ 2.0 } (except it's i= n<br> > Python! Bleah!)<br> > <br> > > I don't think Go has any of the features I mentioned; in fact, of= the<br> > > features I've seen, only garbage collection is common to the two<= br> > > languages. In particular, Go doesn't have a prettyprinting assert= <br> > > statement, which is important in the context of this conversation= :-<br> > ).<br> > <br> > Noted but I suspect the ability to build a reflecting assert, at the<b= r> > language level, is more important than simply providing one.<br> > <br> > The=A0cautionary tale here is BASIC's magic PRINT statement. It does<b= r> > things nothing else in the language can do, because it's implemented<b= r> > at the parser level. Don't do that!<br> <br> </p> </div> =20=20=20=20=20 <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <div style=3D"color: #fff; height: 0;">__._,_.___</div> =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 =20=20 =20=20=20 <div id=3D"ygrp-actbar" style=3D"clear: both; margin-bottom: 10px; whit= e-space: nowrap; color: #666; padding-top: 15px;"> <div> <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject=3DRE%3A%20= %5BTFUI%5D%20pytest%20is%20better%20than%20assert%7B%202%2E0%20%7D%20%28exc= ept%20it%27s%20in%20Python%21%20Bleah%21%29" style=3D"margin-right: 0; padd= ing-right: 0;"> Reply to <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">sender</span></a> | <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]?subject= =3DRE%3A%20%5BTFUI%5D%20pytest%20is%20better%20than%20assert%7B%202%2E0%20%= 7D%20%28except%20it%27s%20in%20Python%21%20Bleah%21%29"> Reply to <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">group</span></a> | <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TestFirstUserInterfaces= /post;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJwYmcwMDdmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg3NDQ3MDQEZ3Jwc3BJZA= MxNzA1MDA3MjA3BG1zZ0lkAzEwNjYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMjkxMTMzNDEw?= act=3Dreply&messageNum=3D1066">Reply <span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">via = web post</span></a> | <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TestFirstUserInterfac= es/post;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJlM2UzNTkwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg3NDQ3MDQEZ3Jwc3BJ= ZAMxNzA1MDA3MjA3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTI5MTEzMzQxMA--" style=3D"= font-weight: 700;">Start a New Topic</a> </div> <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TestFirstUserInter= faces/message/1060;_ylc=3DX3oDMTM0NTA3bjl1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg3NDQ3M= DQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3MjA3BG1zZ0lkAzEwNjYEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMx= MjkxMTMzNDEwBHRwY0lkAzEwNjA-">Messages in this topic</a> (<span style=3D"font-weight: 700;">7</span>) </div>=20 <!------- Start Nav Bar ------> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id=3D"ygrp-vital" style=3D"background-color: #e0ecee; font-family: Ver= dana; font-size: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 10px;"> <span id=3D"vithd" style=3D"font-weight: bold; color: #333; text-tran= sform: uppercase; ">Recent Activity:</span> <ul style=3D"list-style-type: none; margin: 0; padding: 0; display: inl= ine;"> </ul> =20=20=20=20 <div style=3D"clear: both; padding-top: 2px; color: #1e66ae;"> <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TestFirstUserInterfaces;_ylc= =3DX3oDMTJlbDhqamY1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzg3NDQ3MDQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3= MjA3BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTI5MTEzMzQxMA--" style=3D"text-decorat= ion: none;">Visit Your Group</a> </div> </div> <div id=3D"ygrp-grfd" style=3D"font-family: Verdana; font-size: 12px;= padding: 15px 0;"> =20=20=20=20=20=20 <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> To unsubscribe, email:<BR> TestFirstUserInterfaces-unsubscribe-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org<BR> =20=20=20=20=20=20 <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> </div> =20=20 <div id=3D"ft" style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5p= x; padding: 0 2px 0 0; clear: both;"> <a href=3D"http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=3DX3oDMTJkMzNyZWluBF9TAzk3MzU5Nz= E0BGdycElkAzg3NDQ3MDQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3MjA3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZ= QMxMjkxMTMzNDEw" style=3D"float: left;"><img src=3D"http://l.yimg.com/a/i/u= s/yg/logo/us.gif" height=3D"15" width=3D"137" alt=3D"Yahoo! Groups" style= =3D"border: 0;"/></a> <div style=3D"color: #747575; float: right;">Switch to: <a href=3D"mailto= :TestFirstUserInterfaces-traditional-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org?subject=3DChange Deliv= ery Format: Traditional" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">Text-Only</a>, <a= href=3D"mailto:TestFirstUserInterfaces-digest-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org?subject=3DEm= ail Delivery: Digest" class=3D"margin-rt" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">= Daily Digest</a> • <a href=3D"mailto:TestFirstUserInterfaces-unsubscri= [email protected]?subject=3DUnsubscribe" style=3D"text-decoration: none;">= Unsubscribe</a> • <a href=3D"http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/" style= =3D"text-decoration: none;">Terms of Use</a></div> </div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> </div> <!-- ygrp-msg --> <!-- Sponsor --> <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --> <div id=3D"ygrp-sponsor" style=3D"width:160px; float:right; clear:none; m= argin:0 0 25px 0; background: #fff;"> <!-- Start Recommendations --> <div id=3D"ygrp-reco"> </div> <!-- End Recommendations --> </div> <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --> <div style=3D"clear:both; color: #FFF; font-size:1px;">.</div> </div> <img src=3D"http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=3D97359714/grpId=3D8744704/grpspI= d=3D1705007207/msgId=3D1066/stime=3D1291133410/nc1=3D1/nc2=3D2/nc3=3D3" wid= th=3D"1" height=3D"1"> <br> <div style=3D"color: #fff; height: 0;">__,_._,___</div> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--> </body> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlStart|**|-~--> <head> <style type=3D"text/css"> <!-- #ygrp-mkp { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; font-family: Arial; margin: 10px 0; padding: 0 10px; } #ygrp-mkp hr { border: 1px solid #d8d8d8; } #ygrp-mkp #hd { color: #628c2a; font-size: 85%; font-weight: 700; line-height: 122%; margin: 10px 0; } #ygrp-mkp #ads { margin-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-mkp .ad { padding: 0 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad p { margin: 0; } #ygrp-mkp .ad a { color: #0000ff; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc { font-family: Arial; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd { margin: 10px 0px; font-weight: 700; font-size: 78%; line-height: 122%; } #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad { margin-bottom: 10px; padding: 0 0; } a { color: #1e66ae; } #actions { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 11px; padding: 10px 0; } #activity { background-color: #e0ecee; float: left; font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; padding: 10px; } #activity span { font-weight: 700; } #activity span:first-child { text-transform: uppercase; } #activity span a { color: #5085b6; text-decoration: none; } #activity span span { color: #ff7900; } #activity span .underline { text-decoration: underline; } .attach { clear: both; display: table; font-family: Arial; font-size: 12px; padding: 10px 0; width: 400px; } .attach div a { text-decoration: none; } .attach img { border: none; padding-right: 5px; } .attach label { display: block; margin-bottom: 5px; } .attach label a { text-decoration: none; } =20=20 blockquote { margin: 0 0 0 4px; } .bold { font-family: Arial; font-size: 13px; font-weight: 700; } .bold a { text-decoration: none; } dd.last p a { font-family: Verdana; font-weight: 700; } dd.last p span { margin-right: 10px; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: 700; } dd.last p span.yshortcuts { margin-right: 0; } div.attach-table div div a { text-decoration: none; } div.attach-table { width: 400px; } div.file-title a, div.file-title a:active, div.file-title a:hover, div.fi= le-title a:visited { text-decoration: none; } div.photo-title a, div.photo-title a:active, div.photo-title a:hover, div= .photo-title a:visited { text-decoration: none; } div#ygrp-mlmsg #ygrp-msg p a span.yshortcuts { font-family: Verdana; font-size: 10px; font-weight: normal; } .green { color: #628c2a; } .MsoNormal { margin: 0 0 0 0; } o { font-size: 0; } #photos div { float: left; width: 72px; } #photos div div { border: 1px solid #666666; height: 62px; overflow: hidden; width: 62px; } #photos div label { color: #666666; font-size: 10px; overflow: hidden; text-align: center; white-space: nowrap; width: 64px; } #reco-category { font-size: 77%; } #reco-desc { font-size: 77%; } .replbq { margin: 4px; } #ygrp-actbar div a:first-child { /* border-right: 0px solid #000;*/ margin-right: 2px; padding-right: 5px; } #ygrp-mlmsg { font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica,clean, sans-serif; *font-size: small; *font: x-small; } #ygrp-mlmsg table { font-size: inherit; font: 100%; } #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea { font: 99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif; } #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code { font:115% monospace; *font-size:100%; } #ygrp-mlmsg * { line-height: 1.22em; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo { padding-bottom: 10px; } #ygrp-mlmsg a { color: #1E66AE; } #ygrp-msg p a { font-family: Verdana; } #ygrp-msg p#attach-count span { color: #1E66AE; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco #reco-head { color: #ff7900; font-weight: 700; } #ygrp-reco { margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0px; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a { font-size: 130%; text-decoration: none; } #ygrp-sponsor #ov li { font-size: 77%; list-style-type: square; padding: 6px 0; }=20 #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul { margin: 0; padding: 0 0 0 8px; } #ygrp-text { font-family: Georgia; } #ygrp-text p { margin: 0 0 1em 0; } #ygrp-text tt { font-size: 120%; } #ygrp-vital ul li:last-child { border-right: none !important;=20 }=20 --> </style> </head> <!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~--> </html> <!-- end group email --> --g2HsJ9bCzN7zXz7g0MY4G6cWCnrMBterwu58OrF--