Re: Need M1 Mac to Test
Brian Herman <[email protected]> Wed, 12 Jan 2022 19:14:22 -0600
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.python.apple |
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| Message-ID | <CAN0LK4O2R2iqOmfJDdjuBuKQLq49msHy_joFn5_O1D+fn1Bspw@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============6515058083062829065== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b1b1c805d56c683e" --000000000000b1b1c805d56c683e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I lived through that era. My dad would let me play with a Mac SE. I would play with LC II at school and Apple II. I have an Apple IIe. On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 6:37 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > No worries, you can do Python development during the Intel->Arm > transition. And then in umpteen years during the Arm->RiscV transition, a= nd > after that: who knows=E2=80=A6. > > (And you probably weren=E2=80=99t born for the 68000->PowerPC transition) > > :-) > > -- > > Jack Jansen, <[email protected]>, http://www.cwi.nl/~jack > > If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Goldm= an > > > > On 12 Jan 2022, at 23:56, Brian Herman <[email protected]> wrote: > > I wish i was doing python development during the PowerPC->Intel transitio= n. > I was in high school and into macs but not python at the time. > > > On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 4:48 PM <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On 12 Jan 2022, at 22:54, Ned Deily <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> In theory it is possible to select which architecture a multi-arch >> executable is to run under when there is more than one option by using t= he >> "arch" command, like here to force running in Intel emulation mode under >> Rosetta2 on an M1 Mac: >> >> arch -x86_64 /path/to/python3{x} >> >> But there is a big gotcha with that: if anything running under that >> non-default arch Python spins off another Python in a subprocess by usin= g >> the value of sys.executable to find the running interpreter binary, the >> "arch -x86_64" is effectively lost and the interpreter in the subprocess >> will run in the default architecture. This happens, for instance, when >> running Python's own test suite: the top-level Python process running >> regrtest will be running in Intel emulation but tests running in >> subprocesses will still be running in the default arm64 arch, possibly >> giving errors or silently producing misleading results. Running the test= s >> using python3{}-intel64 avoids that problem. >> >> >> Yeah, that=E2=80=99s why I=E2=80=99m staying away from universal builds = for now. Often I >> have a situation where I run cmake which runs make which runs python to >> create a venv and then somebody higher up will use that venv to create >> something using =E2=80=9Cpython" that something else will then use to bu= ild >> something against. The chances of this working with =E2=80=9Carch -x86_6= 4=E2=80=9D are >> slim, if that:-) >> >> Looking at the timeline of the PowerPC->Intel transition I think most of >> the problem will be solved in another year, because pretty much everythi= ng >> will be available for arm natively. >> >> -- >> Jack Jansen, <[email protected]>, http://www.cwi.nl/~jack >> If I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma >> Goldman >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pythonmac-SIG maillist - [email protected] >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig >> unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG >> > _______________________________________________ > Pythonmac-SIG maillist - [email protected] > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig > unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG > > > --000000000000b1b1c805d56c683e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr">I lived through that era. My dad would let me play with a = Mac SE.<div>I would play with LC II at school and Apple II.</div><div>I hav= e an Apple IIe.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 6:37 PM <<a href=3D"mailto:= [email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote = class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol= id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-wo= rd;">No worries, you can do Python development during the Intel->Arm tra= nsition. And then in umpteen years during the Arm->RiscV transition, and= after that: who knows=E2=80=A6.<div><br></div><div>(And you probably weren= =E2=80=99t born for the 68000->PowerPC transition)<br><div><br></div><di= v>:-)<br><div> <span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvet= ica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal= ;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:no= ne;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div><p style=3D"margin:0px"><font = face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font:12px Helvetica">--</font></p><p= style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font:12p= x Helvetica">Jack Jansen, <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target= =3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>>, <a href=3D"http://www.cwi.nl/~jack"= target=3D"_blank">http://www.cwi.nl/~jack</a></font></p><p style=3D"margin= :0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font:12px Helvetica">If = I can't dance I don't want to be part of your revolution -- Emma Go= ldman</font></p><br></div></span><br> </div> <div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On 12 Jan 2022, at 23:56, Brian Her= man <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">bherman= [email protected]</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr">I wish i was = doing python development during the PowerPC->Intel transition.<div>I was= in high school and into macs but not python at the time.</div><div><br></d= iv></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_att= r">On Wed, Jan 12, 2022 at 4:48 PM <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= " target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote = class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px sol= id rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div><br></div><blockquote type= =3D"cite">On 12 Jan 2022, at 22:54, Ned Deily <<a href=3D"mailto:nad@pyt= hon.org" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:</blockquote><block= quote type=3D"cite">=C2=A0In theory it is possible to select which architec= ture a multi-arch executable is to run under when there is more than one op= tion by using the "arch" command, like here to force running in I= ntel emulation mode under Rosetta2 on an M1 Mac:<br><br>arch -x86_64 /path/= to/python3{x}<br><br>But there is a big gotcha with that: if anything runni= ng under that non-default arch Python spins off another Python in a subproc= ess by using the value of sys.executable to find the running interpreter bi= nary, the "arch -x86_64" is effectively lost and the interpreter = in the subprocess will run in the default architecture. This happens, for i= nstance, when running Python's own test suite: the top-level Python pro= cess running regrtest will be running in Intel emulation but tests running = in subprocesses will still be running in the default arm64 arch, possibly g= iving errors or silently producing misleading results. Running the tests us= ing python3{}-intel64 avoids that problem.<br></blockquote><div><br></div>Y= eah, that=E2=80=99s why I=E2=80=99m staying away from universal builds for = now. Often I have a situation where I run cmake which runs make which runs = python to create a venv and then somebody higher up will use that venv to c= reate something using =E2=80=9Cpython" that something else will then u= se to build something against. The chances of this working with =E2=80=9Car= ch -x86_64=E2=80=9D are slim, if that:-)<div><br></div><div>Looking at the = timeline of the PowerPC->Intel transition I think most of the problem wi= ll be solved in another year, because pretty much everything will be availa= ble for arm natively.<br><div><br></div><div> <span style=3D"border-collapse:separate;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-= variant-east-asian:normal;line-height:normal;border-spacing:0px"><div><div = style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font:12px= Helvetica">--</font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetic= a" size=3D"3" style=3D"font:12px Helvetica">Jack Jansen, <<a href=3D"mai= lto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>>, <a hr= ef=3D"http://www.cwi.nl/~jack" target=3D"_blank">http://www.cwi.nl/~jack</a= ></font></div><div style=3D"margin:0px"><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3"= style=3D"font:12px Helvetica">If I can't dance I don't want to be = part of your revolution -- Emma Goldman</font></div><br></div></span><br> </div> <div><br></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<= br> Pythonmac-SIG maillist=C2=A0 -=C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:Pythonmac-SIG@python= .org" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> <a href=3D"https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig" rel=3D"n= oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pytho= nmac-sig</a><br> unsubscribe: <a href=3D"https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-S= IG" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mail.python.org/mailman/op= tions/Pythonmac-SIG</a><br> </blockquote></div> _______________________________________________<br>Pythonmac-SIG maillist = =C2=A0- =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank"= >[email protected]</a><br><a href=3D"https://mail.python.org/mailman= /listinfo/pythonmac-sig" target=3D"_blank">https://mail.python.org/mailman/= listinfo/pythonmac-sig</a><br>unsubscribe: <a href=3D"https://mail.python.o= rg/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG" target=3D"_blank">https://mail.python.org= /mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></= div></div></blockquote></div> --000000000000b1b1c805d56c683e-- --===============6515058083062829065== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/pythonmac-sig unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/Pythonmac-SIG --===============6515058083062829065==--