Re: [Biopython] Struggling with MSA...

Dan Bolser <[email protected]> Thu, 15 Feb 2024 16:18:49 +0000
Newsgroups gmane.comp.python.bio.general
Message-ID <CANs1yPLBAVMt_-7RkW8dKkzSrLZaNBLm9kWA7q4bqZnc4ZUpNA@mail.gmail.com>
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Recreating the profile was just a sanity check. Really I want to look at
conservation across the protein of interest.

On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 16:13, Peter Cock <[email protected]> wrote:

> You may have more joy starting from the HMM for the model?
>
> https://www.ebi.ac.uk/interpro/wwwapi//entry/pfam/PF08241?annotation=3Dhm=
m
>
> Peter
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 4:06=E2=80=AFPM Dan Bolser <[email protected].=
uk>
> wrote:
> >
> > Searching HMMER gives me (cryptic?) details of the model match:
> >
> > Family-Id Family-Accession Clan Start End Ali-Start Ali-End Model-Start
> Model-End Bit-Score Ind.-E-value Cond.-E-value Description
> >
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> >
> > Methyltransf_11 PF08241.15 CL0063 63 173 63 172 1 95 51.30 1.5e-13
> 3.1e-17 Methyltransferase domain
> >
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > MODEL
> LdvGcGtGrlaealakrg.arvvgvDlskemlklakekaseeglkvefvvadaeklpfednsfDlvvssevlh=
hv...e............dpekalkeiaRvLkpgGllv
> > MATCH  L +GcG+ +l+ +l   g  +v+ vD+s  ++++ +++    + ++++  +d++kl
> f+++sfD+v+ + +l+ +   e             ++++l+e+ RvL pgG+++
> > PPL
> 569************7779*************77766666666.69***************************=
**8662667778888888******************97
> > SEQ
> LVLGCGNSALSYELFLGGfPNVTSVDYSSVVVAAMQARHAHVP-QLRWETMDVRKLDFPSASFDVVLEKGTLD=
ALlagErdpwtvssegvhTVDQVLSEVSRVLVPGGRFI
> >
> >
> > So I guess it's possible to work backwards from there...
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 16:02, Peter Cock <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Sorry yes, I used this as a threshold for if a column was gappy, and
> >> likely to be in the model or not:
> >>
> >> amino_acids.get("-", 0) < len(align)*0.5
> >>
> >> Might need to use <=3D to match, or perhaps they use a more
> >> sophisticated criteria.
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >> On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 3:56=E2=80=AFPM Dan Bolser <dan.bolser@outsee.=
co.uk>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Sorry, by 'half gaps' I thought you meant a specific thing, like,
> "look at that half gap!". I guess you mean, columns where half of the
> values in the column are gaps.
> >> >
> >> > Looking directly at the alignment, I guess there is no way to work
> out precisely which columns are gaps or not in the model?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 15:47, Dan Bolser <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi Peter,
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 15:28, Peter Cock <[email protected]=
>
> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Hello Dan,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> It that is a probability at the end, you have the wrong denominato=
r
> -
> >> >>> should be len(align) =3D=3D sum(amino_acids.values()
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Makes no difference, they are the same (including -s). The profile
> reports -s as 'Insert Probability'.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> Note this seed alignment has 164 columns, yet the model page says
> the
> >> >>> model has 95 columns. If I count the number of columns which are
> half
> >> >>> gaps that's pretty close...
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't understand what that means or implies... Is something wrong
> somewhere?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers,
> >> >> Dan.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> Peter
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 3:09=E2=80=AFPM Dan Bolser <dan.bolser@out=
see.co.uk>
> wrote:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Hi,
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Sorry, I can't follow the docs (or find the right docs).
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I've got the 'seed' stockholm alignment for this domain:
> >> >>> >
> https://www.ebi.ac.uk/interpro/entry/pfam/PF08241/entry_alignments/?type=
=3Dseed
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > and I'm trying to reproduce the signature it shows here:
> >> >>> > https://www.ebi.ac.uk/interpro/entry/pfam/PF08241/logo/
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I'm not sure a) why the probabilities differ in the profile
> relative to the seed alignment, or b) how to filter columns in the
> alignment by those that have a match in the model (see columns 4-6 in the
> alignment, which are gaps in the model).
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I think if I can answer b) then the answer to a) will be, "look
> at the full alignment".
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Here is my crude 'best guess' code:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > import gzip
> >> >>> > import Bio.AlignIO
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > # msa =3D "PF08241.alignment.full.gz"
> >> >>> > msa =3D "PF08241.alignment.seed.gz"
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > with gzip.open(msa, "rt") as handle:
> >> >>> > align =3D Bio.AlignIO.read(handle, "stockholm")
> >> >>> > ncols =3D align.get_alignment_length()
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > for col in range(ncols):
> >> >>> > amino_acids =3D dict()
> >> >>> > for s in align[:, col]:
> >> >>> > amino_acids[s] =3D amino_acids.get(s, 0) + 1
> >> >>> > print(amino_acids)
> >> >>> > for s in amino_acids:
> >> >>> > print(f"{s}: {amino_acids[s]:3d} {amino_acids[s] /
> len(align):.3f}")
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I have the feeling I'm doin it rong...
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > The above is just a 'warm up', really I want to see the
> conservation score, base by base on a given protein in the alignment (whe=
re
> it matches the model).
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Many thanks for any suggestions, and sorry for not being able to
> find the right document to answer these questions.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > kthxbi,
> >> >>> > Dan.
> >> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >> >>> > Biopython mailing list  -  [email protected]
> >> >>> > https://mailman.open-bio.org/mailman/listinfo/biopython
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Recreating the profile was just a sanity check. Really I w=
ant to look at conservation across the protein of interest.</div><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, 15 Feb 2=
024 at 16:13, Peter Cock &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">p=
[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204=
,204);padding-left:1ex">You may have more joy starting from the HMM for the=
 model?<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ebi.ac.uk/interpro/wwwapi//entry/pfam/PF08241?annota=
tion=3Dhmm" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ebi.ac.uk/inte=
rpro/wwwapi//entry/pfam/PF08241?annotation=3Dhmm</a><br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 4:06=E2=80=AFPM Dan Bolser &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:da=
[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; wr=
ote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Searching HMMER gives me (cryptic?) details of the model match:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Family-Id Family-Accession Clan Start End Ali-Start Ali-End Model-Star=
t Model-End Bit-Score Ind.-E-value Cond.-E-value Description<br>
&gt; =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Methyltransf_11 PF08241.15 CL0063 63 173 63 172 1 95 51.30 1.5e-13 3.1=
e-17 Methyltransferase domain<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------------------------------------------<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; MODEL=C2=A0 LdvGcGtGrlaealakrg.arvvgvDlskemlklakekaseeglkvefvvadaeklpf=
ednsfDlvvssevlhhv...e............dpekalkeiaRvLkpgGllv<br>
&gt; MATCH=C2=A0 L +GcG+ +l+ +l=C2=A0 =C2=A0g=C2=A0 +v+ vD+s=C2=A0 ++++ +++=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 + ++++=C2=A0 +d++kl f+++sfD+v+ + +l+ +=C2=A0 =C2=A0e=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0++++l+e+ RvL pgG+++<br>
&gt; PPL=C2=A0 =C2=A0 569************7779*************77766666666.69*******=
**********************8662667778888888******************97<br>
&gt; SEQ=C2=A0 =C2=A0 LVLGCGNSALSYELFLGGfPNVTSVDYSSVVVAAMQARHAHVP-QLRWETMDV=
RKLDFPSASFDVVLEKGTLDALlagErdpwtvssegvhTVDQVLSEVSRVLVPGGRFI<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So I guess it&#39;s possible to work backwards from there...<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 16:02, Peter Cock &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:p.j.a.c=
[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Sorry yes, I used this as a threshold for if a column was gappy, a=
nd<br>
&gt;&gt; likely to be in the model or not:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; amino_acids.get(&quot;-&quot;, 0) &lt; len(align)*0.5<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Might need to use &lt;=3D to match, or perhaps they use a more<br>
&gt;&gt; sophisticated criteria.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Peter<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 3:56=E2=80=AFPM Dan Bolser &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</=
a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Sorry, by &#39;half gaps&#39; I thought you meant a specific =
thing, like, &quot;look at that half gap!&quot;. I guess you mean, columns =
where half of the values in the column are gaps.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; Looking directly at the alignment, I guess there is no way to=
 work out precisely which columns are gaps or not in the model?<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt; On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 15:47, Dan Bolser &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt=
; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Hi Peter,<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 at 15:28, Peter Cock &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Hello Dan,<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; It that is a probability at the end, you have the wro=
ng denominator -<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; should be len(align) =3D=3D sum(amino_acids.values()<=
br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Makes no difference, they are the same (including -s). Th=
e profile reports -s as &#39;Insert Probability&#39;.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Note this seed alignment has 164 columns, yet the mod=
el page says the<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; model has 95 columns. If I count the number of column=
s which are half<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; gaps that&#39;s pretty close...<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I don&#39;t understand what that means or implies... Is s=
omething wrong somewhere?<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Cheers,<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Dan.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Peter<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; On Thu, Feb 15, 2024 at 3:09=E2=80=AFPM Dan Bolser &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">dan.bolser@o=
utsee.co.uk</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; Hi,<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; Sorry, I can&#39;t follow the docs (or find the =
right docs).<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; I&#39;ve got the &#39;seed&#39; stockholm alignm=
ent for this domain:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ebi.ac.uk/interpro/entry/=
pfam/PF08241/entry_alignments/?type=3Dseed" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://www.ebi.ac.uk/interpro/entry/pfam/PF08241/entry_alignments/?t=
ype=3Dseed</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; and I&#39;m trying to reproduce the signature it=
 shows here:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://www.ebi.ac.uk/interpro/entry/=
pfam/PF08241/logo/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ebi.ac=
.uk/interpro/entry/pfam/PF08241/logo/</a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; I&#39;m not sure a) why the probabilities differ=
 in the profile relative to the seed alignment, or b) how to filter columns=
 in the alignment by those that have a match in the model (see columns 4-6 =
in the alignment, which are gaps in the model).<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; I think if I can answer b) then the answer to a)=
 will be, &quot;look at the full alignment&quot;.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; Here is my crude &#39;best guess&#39; code:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; import gzip<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; import Bio.AlignIO<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; # msa =3D &quot;PF08241.alignment.full.gz&quot;<=
br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; msa =3D &quot;PF08241.alignment.seed.gz&quot;<br=
>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; with gzip.open(msa, &quot;rt&quot;) as handle:<b=
r>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; align =3D Bio.AlignIO.read(handle, &quot;stockho=
lm&quot;)<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; ncols =3D align.get_alignment_length()<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; for col in range(ncols):<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; amino_acids =3D dict()<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; for s in align[:, col]:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; amino_acids[s] =3D amino_acids.get(s, 0) + 1<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; print(amino_acids)<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; for s in amino_acids:<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; print(f&quot;{s}: {amino_acids[s]:3d} {amino_aci=
ds[s] / len(align):.3f}&quot;)<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; I have the feeling I&#39;m doin it rong...<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; The above is just a &#39;warm up&#39;, really I =
want to see the conservation score, base by base on a given protein in the =
alignment (where it matches the model).<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; Many thanks for any suggestions, and sorry for n=
ot being able to find the right document to answer these questions.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; kthxbi,<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; Dan.<br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; _______________________________________________<=
br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; Biopython mailing list=C2=A0 -=C2=A0 <a href=3D"=
mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</=
a><br>
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://mailman.open-bio.org/mailman/=
listinfo/biopython" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mailman.op=
en-bio.org/mailman/listinfo/biopython</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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_______________________________________________
Biopython mailing list  -  [email protected]
https://mailman.open-bio.org/mailman/listinfo/biopython

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