Re: ChatGPT for py teaching

Wes Turner <[email protected]> Wed, 4 Jan 2023 16:34:01 -0500
Newsgroups gmane.comp.python.education
Message-ID <CACfEFw-ycsosU0NF3yUJ03+42wtEsKSbHRUg_=uDkHBKFEV2ig@mail.gmail.com>
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What are the expected limitations of [ChatGPT]?

What is "Prompt Engineering"?
[Prompt engineering - Wikipedia](
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prompt_engineering )

What lessons about technology reliance could you teach, in regards to
Clippy?

- "What is ChatGPT? Wrong answers only"
  - Human_n: EDGES WITH REASONING

- "Tell me IDK ("I don't know") when you don't know"

- "How certain are you that that is the correct answer?"

- "Are static analysis code metrics sufficient for Safety Critical code?"

- "Whose code is this based on?"

- "Where and when did you learn this?"

- "Why would a US President abstain from using ChatGPT or similar to fill
speeches 'just like what I said before'?"

#Burgundy

GPT or similar trained on only Formally-Verified code with associated tests
and/or e.g. Lean Mathlib, or e.g. the Principia in SymPy & Cirq; that could
probably eliminate my job, but maybe still not teaching

On Wed, Jan 4, 2023, 6:28 AM Christian Mascher <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> a student of mine was aware of this chatbot and asked it about a
> class-assignment of his own accord. We program in Java with some extra
> homemade library class used by some schools in our region.
>
> The bot came up with a "solution" which was flawed in several respects:
> 1. It used some other (unimported) classes - solution doesn't work and
> doesn't fit the assignment.
> 2. It put all the code into the constructor, a typical (design and
> style) error for students beginning with Java.
>
> When confronted with the problem number one above, it acknowledged the
> fault and produced a different unrelated solution.
>
> Sooo....
>
> I was impressed how well the chatbot simulated a typical clueless human
> who even thinks he is smart, while his code is basically bullshit.
> (Probably a result of googling forums, where other learners posted their
> solutions to assignments with the given school library classes.) The bot
> clearly passed the Turing test ;-)
>
> But...
>
> I don't think the interaction was helpful for somebody who is learning
> to program. It is probably less helpful than conversing with other also
> not very knowledgeable students as they are at least reasoning humans.
>
> Talking to the bot might be fun to do in the last lesson before
> christmas or so. Entertaining until you realise the software is
> "simulating" intelligent conversation - not really talking with insight.
> And that could turn out to be a waste of time.
>
> Happy new year
>
> Christian
>
> Am 03.01.2023 um 04:06 schrieb Jurgis Pralgauskis:
> > Hi, happy NY!
> >
> > ChatGPT can create, fix and explain code
> > https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/#samples
> > <https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/#samples>
> >
> > Anyone tried to incorporate it into teaching process?
> > Or have ideas/doubts how it ciuld help?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Edu-sig mailing list -- [email protected]
> > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/edu-sig.python.org/
> > Member address: [email protected]
> _______________________________________________
> Edu-sig mailing list -- [email protected]
> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/edu-sig.python.org/
> Member address: [email protected]
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">What are the expected limitations of [ChatGPT]?<div dir=
=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">What is &quot;Prompt Engineering&quot=
;?</div><div dir=3D"auto">[Prompt engineering - Wikipedia]( <a href=3D"http=
s://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prompt_engineering">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki=
/Prompt_engineering</a> )<br><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
What lessons about technology reliance could you teach, in regards to Clipp=
y?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">- &quot;What is ChatG=
PT? Wrong answers only&quot;</div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 - Human_n: EDGES=
 WITH REASONING</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">- &quot;=
Tell me IDK (&quot;I don&#39;t know&quot;) when you don&#39;t know&quot;</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">- &quot;How certain are yo=
u that that is the correct answer?&quot;</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><=
div dir=3D"auto">- &quot;Are static analysis code metrics sufficient for Sa=
fety Critical code?&quot;</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">- &quot;Whose code is this based on?&quot;</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">- &quot;Where and when did you learn this?&quot;</div>=
<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">- &quot;Why would a US Presid=
ent abstain from using ChatGPT or similar to fill speeches &#39;just like w=
hat I said before&#39;?&quot;</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto">#Burgundy</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">GPT or s=
imilar trained on only Formally-Verified code with associated tests</div><d=
iv dir=3D"auto">and/or e.g. Lean Mathlib, or e.g. the Principia in SymPy &a=
mp; Cirq; that could probably eliminate my job, but maybe still not teachin=
g=C2=A0</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" cl=
ass=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 4, 2023, 6:28 AM Christian Mascher &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
>[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left=
:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
a student of mine was aware of this chatbot and asked it about a<br>
class-assignment of his own accord. We program in Java with some extra<br>
homemade library class used by some schools in our region.<br>
<br>
The bot came up with a &quot;solution&quot; which was flawed in several res=
pects:<br>
1. It used some other (unimported) classes - solution doesn&#39;t work and<=
br>
doesn&#39;t fit the assignment.<br>
2. It put all the code into the constructor, a typical (design and<br>
style) error for students beginning with Java.<br>
<br>
When confronted with the problem number one above, it acknowledged the<br>
fault and produced a different unrelated solution.<br>
<br>
Sooo....<br>
<br>
I was impressed how well the chatbot simulated a typical clueless human<br>
who even thinks he is smart, while his code is basically bullshit.<br>
(Probably a result of googling forums, where other learners posted their<br=
>
solutions to assignments with the given school library classes.) The bot<br=
>
clearly passed the Turing test ;-)<br>
<br>
But...<br>
<br>
I don&#39;t think the interaction was helpful for somebody who is learning<=
br>
to program. It is probably less helpful than conversing with other also<br>
not very knowledgeable students as they are at least reasoning humans.<br>
<br>
Talking to the bot might be fun to do in the last lesson before<br>
christmas or so. Entertaining until you realise the software is<br>
&quot;simulating&quot; intelligent conversation - not really talking with i=
nsight.<br>
And that could turn out to be a waste of time.<br>
<br>
Happy new year<br>
<br>
Christian<br>
<br>
Am 03.01.2023 um 04:06 schrieb Jurgis Pralgauskis:<br>
&gt; Hi, happy NY!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ChatGPT can create, fix and explain code<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/#samples" rel=3D"noreferrer=
 noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/#=
samples</a><br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/#samples" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://openai.com/blog/chatg=
pt/#samples</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Anyone tried to incorporate it into teaching process?<br>
&gt; Or have ideas/doubts how it ciuld help?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Edu-sig mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br>
&gt; To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:edu-sig-leave@python=
.org" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">edu-sig-leave@python.=
org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/edu-sig.python.org/"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mail.py=
thon.org/mailman3/lists/edu-sig.python.org/</a><br>
&gt; Member address: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Edu-sig mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br>
To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</=
a><br>
<a href=3D"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/edu-sig.python.org/" rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mail.python=
.org/mailman3/lists/edu-sig.python.org/</a><br>
Member address: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noreferrer n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

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