Re: ChatGPT for py teaching

Wes Turner <[email protected]> Fri, 6 Jan 2023 12:03:21 -0500
Newsgroups gmane.comp.python.education
Message-ID <CACfEFw917gkzj47wn4f4EhDyq40QHczstUbgVqa3Nd70VjM3=Q@mail.gmail.com>
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On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 4:34 PM Wes Turner <[email protected]> wrote:

> What are the expected limitations of [ChatGPT]?
>
> What is "Prompt Engineering"?
> [Prompt engineering - Wikipedia](
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prompt_engineering )
>
> What lessons about technology reliance could you teach, in regards to
> Clippy?
>
> - "What is ChatGPT? Wrong answers only"
>   - Human_n: EDGES WITH REASONING
>
> - "Tell me IDK ("I don't know") when you don't know"
>

- What are "Truthiness", Confidence Intervals and Error Propagation?
- What is Convergence?
- What does it mean for algorithmic outputs to converge given additional
parametric noise?


>
> - "How certain are you that that is the correct answer?"
>

- How does [ChatGPT] handle known-to-be or presumed-to-be unsolved math and
physics problems?

- "How do we create room-temperature superconductivity?"

- "How will planetary orbital trajectories change in the n-body gravity
problem if another dense probably interstellar mass passes through our
local system?"


>
> - "Are static analysis code metrics sufficient for Safety Critical code?"
>

- Where in the DevOpSec software development lifecycle should human code
review for security best practices and common vulnerabilities and
weaknesses?
  - Is the [ChatGPT] model trained from *only* Formally Verified code with
associated tests?
    - Branch and line coverage metrics indicate which tests run which lines
of which functions. Code coverage typically implies dynamic analysis?


>
> - "Whose code is this based on?"
>
> - "Where and when did you learn this?"
>

- Explainability (XAI)
- How can models "Unlearn" or "Learn over" given a sufficient meta-analytic
procedure given the information available at that point in spacetime?



> - "Why would a US President abstain from using ChatGPT or similar to fill
> speeches 'just like what I said before'?"
>
> #Burgundy
>

- How can we use [ChatGPT] and other Prompt Engineering approaches to
perform Evidence-Based Policy with supporting computational analyses
prepared in form for meta-analysis given verification of data quality and
experimental controls?


>
> GPT or similar trained on only Formally-Verified code with associated tests
> and/or e.g. Lean Mathlib, or e.g. the Principia in SymPy & Cirq; that
> could probably eliminate my job, but maybe still not teaching
>

- "Q: ChatGPT etc. trained on mathlib and tests"
  https://github.com/leanprover-community/mathlib/issues/17919

- "Port the QuantumQ game to Cirq (SymPy (Python))?"
  - https://quantumai.google/cirq/start/start
    -
https://colab.research.google.com/drive/11WGNX8TKOmjpmvJWO7v19gXKoEwIwxyw?usp=sharing

- "How does [ChatGPT] compare to Critical Thinking, Reasoning, Logic, and
Rationality?
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking#Logic_and_rationality



> On Wed, Jan 4, 2023, 6:28 AM Christian Mascher <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> a student of mine was aware of this chatbot and asked it about a
>> class-assignment of his own accord. We program in Java with some extra
>> homemade library class used by some schools in our region.
>>
>> The bot came up with a "solution" which was flawed in several respects:
>> 1. It used some other (unimported) classes - solution doesn't work and
>> doesn't fit the assignment.
>> 2. It put all the code into the constructor, a typical (design and
>> style) error for students beginning with Java.
>>
>> When confronted with the problem number one above, it acknowledged the
>> fault and produced a different unrelated solution.
>>
>> Sooo....
>>
>> I was impressed how well the chatbot simulated a typical clueless human
>> who even thinks he is smart, while his code is basically bullshit.
>> (Probably a result of googling forums, where other learners posted their
>> solutions to assignments with the given school library classes.) The bot
>> clearly passed the Turing test ;-)
>>
>> But...
>>
>> I don't think the interaction was helpful for somebody who is learning
>> to program. It is probably less helpful than conversing with other also
>> not very knowledgeable students as they are at least reasoning humans.
>>
>> Talking to the bot might be fun to do in the last lesson before
>> christmas or so. Entertaining until you realise the software is
>> "simulating" intelligent conversation - not really talking with insight.
>> And that could turn out to be a waste of time.
>>
>> Happy new year
>>
>> Christian
>>
>> Am 03.01.2023 um 04:06 schrieb Jurgis Pralgauskis:
>> > Hi, happy NY!
>> >
>> > ChatGPT can create, fix and explain code
>> > https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/#samples
>> > <https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/#samples>
>> >
>> > Anyone tried to incorporate it into teaching process?
>> > Or have ideas/doubts how it ciuld help?
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Edu-sig mailing list -- [email protected]
>> > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>> > https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/edu-sig.python.org/
>> > Member address: [email protected]
>> _______________________________________________
>> Edu-sig mailing list -- [email protected]
>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/edu-sig.python.org/
>> Member address: [email protected]
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 4, 2023 at 4:34 PM Wes Tu=
rner &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0p=
x 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div d=
ir=3D"auto">What are the expected limitations of [ChatGPT]?<div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">What is &quot;Prompt Engineering&quot;?</div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">[Prompt engineering - Wikipedia]( <a href=3D"https://en.w=
ikipedia.org/wiki/Prompt_engineering" target=3D"_blank">https://en.wikipedi=
a.org/wiki/Prompt_engineering</a> )<br><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=
=3D"auto">What lessons about technology reliance could you teach, in regard=
s to Clippy?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">- &quot;Wha=
t is ChatGPT? Wrong answers only&quot;</div><div dir=3D"auto">=C2=A0 - Huma=
n_n: EDGES WITH REASONING</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto=
">- &quot;Tell me IDK (&quot;I don&#39;t know&quot;) when you don&#39;t kno=
w&quot;</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>- What are &quot;=
Truthiness&quot;, Confidence Intervals and Error Propagation?</div><div>- W=
hat is Convergence?</div><div>- What does it mean for algorithmic outputs t=
o converge given additional parametric noise?</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockq=
uote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1p=
x solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"au=
to"><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">- &quot;How certain are y=
ou that that is the correct answer?&quot;</div></div></div></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>- How does=C2=A0[ChatGPT] handle known-to-be or presumed-t=
o-be unsolved math and physics problems?</div><div><br></div><div>- &quot;H=
ow do we create room-temperature superconductivity?&quot;</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>- &quot;How will planetary orbital trajectories change in the n-bod=
y gravity problem if another dense probably interstellar mass passes throug=
h our local system?&quot;</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,=
204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">- &quot;Are static analysis code metrics suff=
icient for Safety Critical code?&quot;</div></div></div></blockquote><div><=
br></div><div>- Where in the DevOpSec software development lifecycle=C2=A0s=
hould human code review for security best practices and common vulnerabilit=
ies and weaknesses?</div><div>=C2=A0 - Is the [ChatGPT] model trained from =
*only* Formally Verified code with associated tests?</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 - Branch and line coverage metrics indicate which tests run which lines=
 of which functions. Code coverage typically implies dynamic analysis?</div=
><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px=
 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div di=
r=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">=
- &quot;Whose code is this based on?&quot;</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div=
><div dir=3D"auto">- &quot;Where and when did you learn this?&quot;</div></=
div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>- Explainability (XAI)</div><div=
>- How can models &quot;Unlearn&quot; or &quot;Learn over&quot; given a suf=
ficient meta-analytic procedure given the information available at that poi=
nt in spacetime?</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=
=3D"auto"></div><div dir=3D"auto">- &quot;Why would a US President abstain =
from using ChatGPT or similar to fill speeches &#39;just like what I said b=
efore&#39;?&quot;</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">#Burgu=
ndy</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>- How can we use [Cha=
tGPT] and other Prompt Engineering approaches to perform Evidence-Based Pol=
icy with supporting computational analyses prepared in form for meta-analys=
is given verification of data quality and experimental controls?</div><div>=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"a=
uto"><div dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">GPT or=
 similar trained on only Formally-Verified code with associated tests</div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">and/or e.g. Lean Mathlib, or e.g. the Principia in SymPy =
&amp; Cirq; that could probably eliminate my job, but maybe still not teach=
ing=C2=A0</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>- &quot;Q: Chat=
GPT etc. trained on mathlib and tests&quot;</div><div>=C2=A0 <a href=3D"htt=
ps://github.com/leanprover-community/mathlib/issues/17919">https://github.c=
om/leanprover-community/mathlib/issues/17919</a></div><div><br></div><div>-=
 &quot;Port the QuantumQ game to Cirq (SymPy (Python))?&quot;</div><div>=C2=
=A0 -=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://quantumai.google/cirq/start/start">https://qu=
antumai.google/cirq/start/start</a></div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 -=C2=A0<a href=
=3D"https://colab.research.google.com/drive/11WGNX8TKOmjpmvJWO7v19gXKoEwIwx=
yw?usp=3Dsharing">https://colab.research.google.com/drive/11WGNX8TKOmjpmvJW=
O7v19gXKoEwIwxyw?usp=3Dsharing</a></div><div><br></div><div>- &quot;How doe=
s [ChatGPT] compare to Critical Thinking, Reasoning, Logic, and Rationality=
?</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_t=
hinking#Logic_and_rationality">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_think=
ing#Logic_and_rationality</a></div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jan 4, 2023, 6:28 AM Chri=
stian Mascher &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
a student of mine was aware of this chatbot and asked it about a<br>
class-assignment of his own accord. We program in Java with some extra<br>
homemade library class used by some schools in our region.<br>
<br>
The bot came up with a &quot;solution&quot; which was flawed in several res=
pects:<br>
1. It used some other (unimported) classes - solution doesn&#39;t work and<=
br>
doesn&#39;t fit the assignment.<br>
2. It put all the code into the constructor, a typical (design and<br>
style) error for students beginning with Java.<br>
<br>
When confronted with the problem number one above, it acknowledged the<br>
fault and produced a different unrelated solution.<br>
<br>
Sooo....<br>
<br>
I was impressed how well the chatbot simulated a typical clueless human<br>
who even thinks he is smart, while his code is basically bullshit.<br>
(Probably a result of googling forums, where other learners posted their<br=
>
solutions to assignments with the given school library classes.) The bot<br=
>
clearly passed the Turing test ;-)<br>
<br>
But...<br>
<br>
I don&#39;t think the interaction was helpful for somebody who is learning<=
br>
to program. It is probably less helpful than conversing with other also<br>
not very knowledgeable students as they are at least reasoning humans.<br>
<br>
Talking to the bot might be fun to do in the last lesson before<br>
christmas or so. Entertaining until you realise the software is<br>
&quot;simulating&quot; intelligent conversation - not really talking with i=
nsight.<br>
And that could turn out to be a waste of time.<br>
<br>
Happy new year<br>
<br>
Christian<br>
<br>
Am 03.01.2023 um 04:06 schrieb Jurgis Pralgauskis:<br>
&gt; Hi, happy NY!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ChatGPT can create, fix and explain code<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/#samples" rel=3D"noreferrer=
 noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/#=
samples</a><br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/#samples" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://openai.com/blog/chatg=
pt/#samples</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Anyone tried to incorporate it into teaching process?<br>
&gt; Or have ideas/doubts how it ciuld help?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; Edu-sig mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br>
&gt; To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:edu-sig-leave@python=
.org" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">edu-sig-leave@python.=
org</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/edu-sig.python.org/"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mail.py=
thon.org/mailman3/lists/edu-sig.python.org/</a><br>
&gt; Member address: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Edu-sig mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br>
To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</=
a><br>
<a href=3D"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/edu-sig.python.org/" rel=
=3D"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://mail.python=
.org/mailman3/lists/edu-sig.python.org/</a><br>
Member address: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"noreferrer n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div></div>

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