Re: display of dicts?

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On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Thomas Kluyver <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 19 December 2017 at 17:24, Chris Barker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Granted, string keys where alphabetization makes sense are pretty darn
>> common, but still a "special case"
>>
>
> I'd argue that they're common enough to be the typical case, though
> perhaps my definition of 'makes sense' is a bit broader than yours. And
> sorting can also make sense for numeric keys.
>
>
>> In fact, I discovered this with this example, which I used in my intro t=
o
>> Python class to demonstrate dict's arbitrary order
>>
>
> I think this is exactly the tension we're facing. People teaching intro t=
o
> Python courses want to show what a dictionary *is*, and you don't want
> IPython's features to obscure that. But other than learning about
> dictionaries, I suspect that sorted order is useful more often than
> insertion order.
>
> I'm leaning slightly towards making insertion order the default in Python
> 3.7 - it will be meaningful some of the time, and it is now part of what =
a
> dict is - but I think we should ensure the same release adds an easy way =
to
> switch back to displaying sorted dicts.
>

=E2=80=8BWhat about adding a "sorted" method to dicts that produces a dict =
with the
same keys but the keys inserted =E2=80=8Bin sorted order?

regards
 Steve

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">On =
Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Thomas Kluyver <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D"">On 19 December 2017 at 17:24, Ch=
ris Barker <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" t=
arget=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote=
 class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div>Granted, string keys where alphabetization makes sens=
e are pretty darn common, but still a &quot;special case&quot;</div></div><=
/div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span><div>I&#39;d argue that they&=
#39;re common enough to be the typical case, though perhaps my definition o=
f &#39;makes sense&#39; is a bit broader than yours. And sorting can also m=
ake sense for numeric keys.<br></div><span class=3D""><div>=C2=A0</div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #c=
cc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div=
 class=3D"gmail_quote"><div></div><div>In fact, I discovered this with this=
 example, which I used in my intro to Python class to demonstrate dict&#39;=
s arbitrary order</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span=
><div>I think this is exactly the tension we&#39;re facing. People teaching=
 intro to Python courses want to show what a dictionary *is*, and you don&#=
39;t want IPython&#39;s features to obscure that. But other than learning a=
bout dictionaries, I suspect that sorted order is useful more often than in=
sertion order.</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;m leaning slightly towards ma=
king insertion order the default in Python 3.7 - it will be meaningful some=
 of the time, and it is now part of what a dict is - but I think we should =
ensure the same release adds an easy way to switch back to displaying sorte=
d dicts.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-size:small">=E2=80=8BWhat about adding a &quot;=
sorted&quot; method to dicts that produces a dict with the same keys but th=
e keys inserted =E2=80=8Bin sorted order?</div><div class=3D"gmail_default"=
 style=3D"font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-size:small">regards</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-si=
ze:small">=C2=A0Steve</div></div></div></div>

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