Re: Tim Bray moves to Sun

On Mar 15, 2004, at 5:53 AM, A.M. Kuchling wrote:

> I think we need to tell Sun that they should adopt Python as a standard
> scripting language for Java.
>
> The pros for the Python community are obvious, I trust.  Advantages for
> Sun:
>
> * Fills a gap in the Java API, making it easier to write tests/script
>   applications/etc.
>
> * Jython is one of the most widely used Java scripting languages 
> (impossible
>   to say if it's the most widely used one)
> * Shows that the JVM can be multilanguage and provides a response to
>   .NET's support of C# and Visual Basic.
> * Python is not new, not a flash-in-the-pan; there's an existing user
>   community, libraries, books, etc.
> 	
> Cons for Sun:
> * They may not want to choose a horse in the scripting language field.
> * They might prefer to invent their own (with more Java-like syntax?
>   that they can control?).
> 	
> What should be done about this?  I could just drop Bray a note, of 
> course.
> But should this be done more formally?  Should we or the PSF assemble a
> white paper or presentation that can be given to whatever executive is
> responsible? (If Guido ever runs into James Gosling at a conference, he
> could talk to him, of course, but I don't think Gosling is Java BDFL 
> in the
> strategic sense.)
>
I agree we should do something, but I'm not sure what the best strategy 
is. Clearly, we could greatly expand the audience for Python and Jython 
if we can get a major player like Sun to get behind Python/Jython. If 
any player: IBM, Sun, BEA, JBoss broadens their adoption of 
Python/Jython then that will make it that much easier to get the other 
groups on-board the Python train :)

Last year at PyCon we identified Jython as a potentially powerful 
add-on for web servers that support Java. JBoss seems like a natural, 
especially since it is Open Source, but so far I don't know of anyone 
pursuing this. BEA has caught on and at least some of their efforts for 
WebLog are already public.

I've heard at least one person say that the killer Jython app is doing 
unit tests for Java, which apparently is much simpler than writing 
tests in Java.

http://dev2dev.bea.com/codelibrary/code/wlst.jsp

More directly relevant to Sun is the Python-UNO bridge for OpenOffice.

http://udk.openoffice.org/python/python-bridge.html

These types of effort might help get Sun's attention.

I don't know how Sun feels about Eclipse, but we're making some 
progress in that area too.

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/EclipsePythonIntegration

Dana Moore will be presenting his own work for Jython/Python in Eclipse 
at OSCON in July.

The most powerful argument for Sun getting involved with Python/Jython 
might be the one your bring up regarding .NET. Jython is already 
mature, though it could really benefit from an upgrade for Python 
2.2/2.3 features. If Sun started promoting Jython and even contributed 
some engineering resources then they would be way ahead of dynamic 
languages for .NET, regardless of what happens with IronPython.

So, do you actually know Bray? We need a "friend" to startup a 
conversation with someone inside Sun.

ka