Re: EuroPython Digest, Vol 115, Issue 4

Totally agree with martjin, adding up that also having a conference that
long makes it more expensive and some people will be discouraged to go.
El 15/04/2014 15:40, <[email protected]> escribió:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: Lack of diversity within selected talks (Nicholas H.Tollervey)
>    2. Re: Lack of diversity within selected talks (Filip K??bczyk)
>    3. Re: Lack of diversity within selected talks (Hynek Schlawack)
>    4. Re: Lack of diversity within selected talks (M.-A. Lemburg)
>    5. Re: Lack of diversity within selected talks (Roberto Polli)
>    6. conference length (Martijn Faassen)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 13:37:22 +0100
> From: "Nicholas H.Tollervey" <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
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> Yes!
>
> On 15/04/14 10:28, Lynn Root wrote:
> > - limit speakers to only give one talk.
>
> +100000000
>
> Perhaps too late for this year, but I wish this were the case for
> every conference.
>
> N.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 14:53:32 +0200
> From: Filip K??bczyk <[email protected]>
> To: europython lists <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> W dniu 15.04.2014 14:32, Andreas Jung pisze:
> >
> > At least for the last EuroPython in Florence you could vote for talks
> > (can not recall if you could see the speaker and its gender)
>
> you could see speakers data in EP2013
>
> > - did it make
> > a huge difference?
>
> The question is how many talks conducted by women are this year? I think
> I've counted at least 1 from this years partial list that was published.
>
> Last year (after quickly checking EP2013 talk list; I might miscounted)
> there were 4 such talks.
>
> Regards,
> Filip
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 09:07:21 -0400
> From: "Hynek Schlawack" <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 15 Apr 2014, at 8:37, Nicholas H.Tollervey wrote:
>
> > Yes!
> >
> > On 15/04/14 10:28, Lynn Root wrote:
> >> - limit speakers to only give one talk.
> >
> > +100000000
> >
> > Perhaps too late for this year, but I wish this were the case for
> > every conference.
>
> First of all I?m glad that after the troubling discussion style in the
> not so far past this sensitive topic is approached appropriately.  The
> consequences of having a diverse speaker roster go much farther than
> that it looks good on paper.
>
> I think that blind reviews are problematic if you have an unleveled play
> field and are trying to do something about that.  The solution is to
> accept one has certain biases and fight them instead of trying to avoid
> them because that apparently took away a tool you could have used.
>
> ***
>
> That said, I don?t think it's too late.  The conference is in July and
> there?s a few things you can do:
>
> - Get a keynote speaker who is not a white dude.
> - Having speakers have 3 slots is ridiculous, 2 should be a very rare
> exception.  So ask them which talk is more important and there you have
> some free slots.
> - Reach out to outreach groups.  The most obvious one are our PyLadies
> but there are more: http://www.callbackwomen.com/reach-out.html  Tell
> them our blind audition resulted in a roster you?re unhappy with and
> we?re trying to fix it.  Let some special committee review those
> proposals.  Keep a few slots free for them and just mark them TBD if you
> need to get it out to print.
> - And finally walking the walk: my talk is still in the queue and I will
> happily retract my proposal if it helps to have a more diverse
> conference.  I have no interest to be part of an all-male schedule
> anyway.
>
> Cheers and good luck,
> Hynek
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 15:19:52 +0200
> From: "M.-A. Lemburg" <[email protected]>
> To: Markus Zapke-Gr?ndemann <[email protected]>,
>         [email protected], Lynn Root <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> If it helps, I'd happily free up this slot in the selected talks
> list (https://ep2014.europython.eu/en/event/schedule/):
>
> 43 - Embedded Devices - Marc-Andre Lemburg - Home Automation with Kivy,
> Raspberry Pi and MQTT
>
> and perhaps do the talk as open space session, if there's interest.
>
> BTW: This talk entry:
>
> 56 - Other - Marc-Andre Lemburg - EuroPython 2015 - Let's build it together
>
> is not me, but the EuroPython Society. I just entered it on the EPS'
> behalf and at the request of Mike M?ller. Those "talks" are only
> organizational ones, which probably just got into the review by
> mistake.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Marc-Andre Lemburg
> Director
> EuroPython Society
> http://www.europython-society.org/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 15:19:42 +0200
> From: Roberto Polli <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: Lynn Root <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Lack of diversity within selected talks
> Message-ID: <9513994.k1tEICTjXv@rpolli>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi @all,
>
> On Tuesday 15 April 2014 02:28:50 Lynn Root wrote:
> > For those of you who do not know me..
> Everybody.py knows you, Lynn!
>
> > - talk selection was/is being done blindly, as in no identifying
> > information about the speaker is revealed
> > -#2 there are very little women on that preliminary talk list slated to
> > speak
> > -#3 there are multiple selected speakers slated to give multiple selected
> > talks
>
> > If you do not find a problem with item #2 and #3, please read this
> > article [1] about importance of diversity in a technical field.
> I agree diversity (of speakers/subjects) is a value, in every declination
> (we're not only our gender).
>
> I'm sure Guido van Rossum and Alex Martelli could have send ten (all award
> winning) talks. But a  two-rockstar conference doesn't mean a better
> conference for the community.
>
> I think the committee consider that, and made their choice.
>
> > Here are my suggestions to rectify this issue:
> > - limit speakers to only give one talk. Yes this means going back on the
> > original acceptance.
> imho we could gently ask to the selected speakers to give away one or more
> talk in favor of the others: limiting the talks to one is unfair at the
> moment. And I'm sure that we'll reach the same aim without forcing out
> anybody.
>
> > - reopen CfP and reach out to PyLadies globally to help get the word
> > out. As one of the main leaders of the global organization, I know this
> > did not happen originally.
> Not entirely fair, even for ladies awaiting for the final schedule.
> I agree instead to set gender quotas (eg. 40% minimum for the
> less-represented
> gender). But imho rules should be set *before* the review process.
>
> > - re-review the talks. Give preference or help for those who would be
> > first time speakers.
> Agree to some precedence to first-time speakers and grow our community.
>
> > ..create general availability during the time that the CfP is reopened
> > to help those who want it craft a good proposal.
> imho again: reopening is unfair towards people who made their homework ;)
> During the review process, author had all the time to browse all proposals
> and
> fix their one.
>
> > ... the blind selection ... the result is troubling...
> Identifying authors won't have changed anything, but in any case I'm on the
> full-disclosure side.
>
> > But this email is to address what I feel needs to change.
> Thx for writing! Your contribution is always a precious spark!
>
> Peace,
> R.
>
>
> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/06/technology/technologys-man-problem.html?_r
> > =0 _______________________________________________
> > EuroPython 2014  Berlin, 21th27th July
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> --
> Roberto Polli
> Community Manager
> Babel - a business unit of Par-Tec S.p.A. - http://www.babel.it
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 15:04:50 +0200
> From: Martijn Faassen <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [EuroPython] conference length
> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi there,
>
> I thought I'd give my preferences for conference length in the future.
> It's just my point of view, but I had it for a while now, and I figure
> I'd better share it to be more constructive.
>
> For some years, EuroPython was 3 days of conference, with perhaps 3 or 4
> parallel tracks with talks. From what I recall from the early days, we
> got about as many talk submissions as we had talk slots available.
>
> At some point a few training days got tacked on to the beginning. We
> also gained a tradition of sprints before or after the conference, later
> on getting established at the end, where I think they should be. I
> myself greatly enjoy sprints as an opportunity to get to know people
> better and work with them.
>
> In the last few years EuroPython grew to a conference with many more
> parallel tracks, and more days of conference proper. 5 or so. And then
> sprints.
>
> I haven't been to EuroPython for a few years for other reasons. But when
> I peeked at the massive and long schedule I did feel rather intimidated.
> It feels a bit too much like a marathon to me. I prefer my conference to
> be shorter. I also feel such a long conference risks diluting the talks
> anyone finds interesting over a longer period, making the whole
> experience less inspiring. And while I enjoy the hallway track, I prefer
> doing sprints.
>
> I take it the training sessions got spread into the main conference and
> that's why it's longer. But I wonder whether the ballooning schedule is
> also because the amount of talk submissions went up, and following the
> pattern of accepting as many submitted talks as possible like we used to
> have, the conference felt it had to grow to more days and more slots
> too. If this is so, I think we should consider whether this is the right
> response to more talk submissions, or whether a better response is to
> simply reject more talks.
>
> I think this relates to the discussion on diversity of talks. On the
> preliminary schedule, quite a few speakers have two accepted talks, or
> even three. For a more inspiring conference, I'd prefer to see more
> different speakers, more viewpoints, not the same speaker multiple
> times, however good they may be, and however interesting the topic.
>
> Perhaps an exception can be made if a particular category of
> submissions, like trainings, don't get enough submissions otherwise, but
> if submissions > talk slots, I think 1 accepted talk per speaker is a
> good idea. To avoid people gaming the system to increase their chances
> they're accepted, perhaps 1 *submitted* talk per speaker would be a good
> idea too.
>
> For even more diversity of topics, throw in more wild card talks too
> that are only peripheral to Python, and not just for the keynote
> speeches. To me that's more inspiring. (I haven't studied the schedule
> in detail yet though, so it's possible they're there)
>
> I was told by @europython on Twitter I wasn't required to show up for 5
> days of talks. I can make my own, shorter conference. So do I cut off
> the beginning or the end? I'd prefer the sprints, so I guess I should
> show up in day 3? What if a talk I submitted gets scheduled to day 2,
> though? Or if I actually prefer seeing the talks on day 1 and 2? Now I
> have to make those difficult choices myself.
>
> Nobody has to care about what I want of course if it's just me. But
> perhaps I'm not the only one. And maybe bits of my analysis make sense
> to others. Nobody will find out if nobody talks about it, so that's why
> I did here.
>
> Thanks for doing all the hard work in organizing this; I know it's not
> easy.
>
> Regards,
>
> Martijn
>
>
>
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> End of EuroPython Digest, Vol 115, Issue 4
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