Re: webware gevent based appServer

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Hi,

It would be nice to have the option to upgrade to a python3.x Version of 
Webware for later purpose.
Backward Compatiblity would be nice until python2.5 (python2.6 is buggy)
We currently don't use WSGI capability, we use WebKit at all.

Compatiblity should be given so, that API remains the same, but using 
python3.x
capability. This should be possible, I think. API changes would very bad 
at all.

I have seen it at the print-function in python3. To port thousands of 
such places is a real
overkill. This API-Change is really the worst of all. I simply can't 
understand why
the didn't wrote an enhanced function for this...

However we use many modules where still no python3 port is existing.
For now, switching to higher python version, would still not effective 
for us.

Best Regards

Tobias
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Am 19.09.2012 17:01, schrieb Christoph Zwerschke:
> Am 17.09.2012 11:27, schrieb Sophana K:
>> I'm using webware 1.0, because webware 1.1 didn't work correctly for
>> me (I don't remember why)
> You should definitely try 1.1 again. It works great for me and if there
> are any real issues, please report and I'll be glad to fix them.
>
>> I'm currently trying to debug a freeze problem that occur every 1 to
>> 3 weeks.The python appServer process is completely frozen, and must
>> be killed with -9.It doesn't respond to any signal, so I can't dump
>> its stack, and really don't know the cause strace shows that python
>> is waiting on a futex.
> Again, I don't think this is a problem with Webware itself. I have my
> Webware 1.1 apps running on many servers for months without restart.
>
>> I still have some actions to do in my investigations like:
>> - separating the custom radius server I made which is launched in the
>> same process in several new threads. (I didn't know about the GIL at
>> that time...)
> This could really be the problem. You should run it in a separate process.
>
>> - reverting to webware 0.9
> Don't do that. There have been many bugfixes and improvements in 1.x.
>
>> I've seen that there is a WSGI adapter that connects to the appServer.
>> Is it possible to wrap a webware application in a real WSGI handler?
>> This would allow to use webware applications under modern servers
>> like gevent (gunicorn) and why not google app engine. The threaded
>> app server is no more adapted to modern web techniques. A gevent
>> based appServer would be so great! libraries like gevent-zeromq and
>> gevent-socketio would be so nice to have.
> Yes, the adapter needs a running appserver. This has also advantages,
> because it decouples your WSGI server from the application.
>
> But you're right, it would be nice to have an option to run Webware
> applications without the AppServer, directly wrapped as WSGI, so we
> could make use of existing non-threaded WSGI servers. Actually, I
> discussed these ideas already years ago on this mailing list. However,
> there was not so much feedback and I had not enough time to realize it,
> so these ideas were not realized so far.
>
> So my question to this mailing list would be: How many people are still
> interested in having a modernized Webware version? How backward
> compatible must it be? Would it be ok to change package and method names
> to make them comply with PEP8 or to change getter functions to
> properties or should it be as compatible as possible? Which plugins and
> functionality should still be supported, what can be stripped away
> (personally, I'm using only WebKit)?
>
> -- Christoph
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Live Security Virtual Conference
> Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and
> threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions
> will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware
> threats.http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
> _______________________________________________
> Webware-discuss mailing list
> Webware-discuss-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/webware-discuss
>



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    Hi,<br>
    <br>
    It would be nice to have the option to upgrade to a python3.x
    Version of Webware for later purpose.<br>
    Backward Compatiblity would be nice until python2.5 (python2.6 is
    buggy)<br>
    We currently don't use WSGI capability, we use WebKit at all.<br>
    <br>
    Compatiblity should be given so, that API remains the same, but
    using python3.x <br>
    capability. This should be possible, I think. API changes would very
    bad at all.<br>
    <br>
    I have seen it at the print-function in python3. To port thousands
    of such places is a real <br>
    overkill. This API-Change is really the worst of all. I simply can't
    understand why <br>
    the didn't wrote an enhanced function for this...<br>
    <br>
    However we use many modules where still no python3 port is existing.<br>
    For now, switching to higher python version, would still not
    effective for us.<br>
    <br>
    Best Regards<br>
    <br>
    Tobias<br>
    <hr size="2" width="100%">
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 19.09.2012 17:01, schrieb Christoph
      Zwerschke:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:[email protected]" type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">Am 17.09.2012 11:27, schrieb Sophana K:
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">I'm using webware 1.0, because webware 1.1 didn't work correctly for
me (I don't remember why)
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">You should definitely try 1.1 again. It works great for me and if there 
are any real issues, please report and I'll be glad to fix them.

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">I'm currently trying to debug a freeze problem that occur every 1 to
3 weeks.The python appServer process is completely frozen, and must
be killed with -9.It doesn't respond to any signal, so I can't dump
its stack, and really don't know the cause strace shows that python
is waiting on a futex.
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">Again, I don't think this is a problem with Webware itself. I have my 
Webware 1.1 apps running on many servers for months without restart.

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">I still have some actions to do in my investigations like:
- separating the custom radius server I made which is launched in the
same process in several new threads. (I didn't know about the GIL at
that time...)
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">This could really be the problem. You should run it in a separate process.

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">- reverting to webware 0.9
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">Don't do that. There have been many bugfixes and improvements in 1.x.

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">I've seen that there is a WSGI adapter that connects to the appServer.
Is it possible to wrap a webware application in a real WSGI handler?
This would allow to use webware applications under modern servers
like gevent (gunicorn) and why not google app engine. The threaded
app server is no more adapted to modern web techniques. A gevent
based appServer would be so great! libraries like gevent-zeromq and
gevent-socketio would be so nice to have.
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">Yes, the adapter needs a running appserver. This has also advantages, 
because it decouples your WSGI server from the application.

But you're right, it would be nice to have an option to run Webware 
applications without the AppServer, directly wrapped as WSGI, so we 
could make use of existing non-threaded WSGI servers. Actually, I 
discussed these ideas already years ago on this mailing list. However, 
there was not so much feedback and I had not enough time to realize it, 
so these ideas were not realized so far.

So my question to this mailing list would be: How many people are still 
interested in having a modernized Webware version? How backward 
compatible must it be? Would it be ok to change package and method names 
to make them comply with PEP8 or to change getter functions to 
properties or should it be as compatible as possible? Which plugins and 
functionality should still be supported, what can be stripped away 
(personally, I'm using only WebKit)?

-- Christoph

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/">http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/</a>
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
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Live Security Virtual Conference
Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and 
threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions 
will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware 
threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/
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