Re: Reverse EEG

Hi group,

FDA acceptance or not, there are hazards connected with prolonged use of
CES. Many take FDA approval as a way to go for many things, but forget
about how complicated form of creations we are and try simplistically mess
with everything.

The fact CES is effective can be viewed as the way of statin drug being
effective. I am asking at what expenses? Imo the safest rote to improve
brain work is through gentle chelation and nutrition regimen, combined with
mental training such as EEG biofeedback. Dealing with emotional traumas
that stored some damage is imo a way to best and fastest results, meanwhile
TES can be used for a fix some situations, but not cure...

Hope this helps.




2014-07-23 14:17 GMT+02:00 Raymond Chan <[email protected]>:

> Hi Chuck,
>
> I agree with you 100% that we cannot hope to simply take the kind of
> reverse route that Nicolas Prat described to re-activate an EEG pattern by
> applying voltages externally. And I agree with you 100% on the reasoning
> why this reverse route is not possible.
>
> However, I do not agree with you that we should never apply a current to
> the head. Cranial Electrotherapy Stimulators (CES) have existed in the
> market for decades. The US FDA has been evaluating this modality for three
> decades and finally agreed to classify these devices as Class II on June 12
> this year because,
>
> quote,
>
> …(FDA) has determined that there is sufficient information to establish
> special controls, and that these special controls, together with general
> controls, will provide a reasonable assurance of safety and effectiveness
> for CES devices…
>
> unquote.
>
> Refer to FDA Federal Register #33712.
> Raymond Chan
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 10:50 PM, Charles Z Henry <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> See... this is dangerous.  You might spend time developing your idea,
>> but it's almost certainly not worth your time.
>>
>> Do not apply currents to your head.  Period.  Currents in the brain
>> are the flow of ions across membranes.  They are not the same as
>> currents in conductors.
>>
>> You could not hope to re-activate a pattern by applying voltages
>> externally.  The pattern of activation is essentially lost in
>> transmission.  EEG voltages are the sum of small dipoles that develop
>> across dendrites from billions of neurons.  You're going from a
>> very-high dimensional space to a low-dimensional space.  You can't
>> re-create the details of the high-dimensional space from a
>> low-dimensional space. Brainwave entrainment is possible--and there
>> are some safe methods.  However, you will get nowhere close to
>> inducing a repeatable, recognizable pattern.  Stimulating an area of
>> the brain does not re-create its activity.  The temporal and spatial
>> resolution of patterns of activation is much finer than what you can
>> re-create from outside of the skull.
>>
>> If you're really into this idea, you should study a lot of cognitive
>> neuroscience papers to learn the roles of regions of the brain in
>> cognition.  You can't re-create a pattern of activation externally,
>> but it is possible to influence the functioning of some regions of the
>> brain (stimulate or inhibit).  This is an experimental science and by
>> no means completely understood.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Nicolas Prat, PhD
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > In fact, this is not magnetic but purely electrical. Voltage gets
>> > conducted to the surface of the skull, registered by electrodes. The
>> > reverse route applies voltage to the skull, which gets conducted to the
>> > neurons and (this is the unknown part!) triggers a pattern that might be
>> > recognized and (re)activated.
>> > Seems like active electrodes are necessary for the recording phase and
>> > passive for the playback part. 100mv at the skull both ways.
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and
>> > search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck
>> > Code Sight - the same software that powers the world's largest code
>> > search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now.
>> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Openeeg-list mailing list
>> > [email protected]
>> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openeeg-list
>> > Go to the above address to change your
>> > subscription options, e.g unsubscribe.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and
>> search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck
>> Code Sight - the same software that powers the world's largest code
>> search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now.
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openeeg-list mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openeeg-list
>> Go to the above address to change your
>> subscription options, e.g unsubscribe.
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and
> search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck
> Code Sight - the same software that powers the world's largest code
> search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now.
> http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds
> _______________________________________________
> Openeeg-list mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/openeeg-list
> Go to the above address to change your
> subscription options, e.g unsubscribe.
>
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want fast and easy access to all the code in your enterprise? Index and
search up to 200,000 lines of code with a free copy of Black Duck
Code Sight - the same software that powers the world's largest code
search on Ohloh, the Black Duck Open Hub! Try it now.
http://p.sf.net/sfu/bds