Re: State of p0f support

Hi Robin et all,

I would like to underline the importance of having a way to identify
machines based on traffic flow and connection behavior. It's clear that
Zeek works well at a connection level, so it's important to have some way
to determine what systems are connecting to each other. Otherwise, what's
the point?

However, relying on fingerprints constructed by a library from 2011 that
has not been updated since 2014 is not a great strategy. Also because it
seems to me that the methodology used to generate these signatures was
submission via email.

If I were in your shoes, I'd remove it.

And while I am commenting, why not consider a strategy to use zeek to
generate fingerprints based on a pcap and some __standard__ format to
define hosts in a known controlled network (like a Configuration Management
DB). This way at startup, the user can choose to apply a signature DB, that
they can modify, that annotates their systems.

On Wed, Jun 19, 2019 at 7:10 PM Jim Mellander <[email protected]> wrote:

> It seems to me that a fairly lightweight approach might be a
> per-connection event returning the factors of interest, since according to
> the p03 v3 README:
>
> For TCP/IP, the tool fingerprints the client-originating SYN packet and the
> first SYN+ACK response from the server, paying attention to factors such as the
> ordering of TCP options, the relation between maximum segment size and window
> size, the progression of TCP timestamps, and the state of about a dozen possible
> implementation quirks (e.g. non-zero values in "must be zero" fields).
>
> (from http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/p0f3/README - which also documents the actual factors that are observed).
>
> As far as the SACK vulnerability, the last paragraph of the document indicates that the MSS is set to 48 to trigger the vulnerability, so reporting MSS might give a leg up on that, as well.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 7:21 AM Vlad Grigorescu <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> (Returning this to the non-digest thread)
>>
>> I wrote
>> https://docs.zeek.org/en/stable/scripts/policy/frameworks/software/windows-version-detection.bro.html
>> specifically because p0f wasn't doing a good job of finding XP hosts.
>>
>> I think the best approach is using application-layer data, as Michal
>> suggested, *as well as* TCP fingerprinting. If there's data on the wire
>> that provides operational use, we shouldn't just be ignoring it. There was
>> a p0f rewrite called p0f v3 (http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/p0f3/#) which
>> last had a release in 2016. There's also a tool called PRADS:
>> https://github.com/gamelinux/prads
>>
>> These tools all rely on low-level TCP semantics, basically the same data
>> in the SYN_packet record[1] . What I would want is some mechanism to expose
>> that in script-land, so I can do whatever makes sense in my environment:
>> Run them past p0f signatures, add a field to conn.log, raise a notice on
>> some odd combination that only Metasploit uses.
>>
>> This data falls in a weird grey area in Zeek: it gets parsed, but is
>> essentially unavailable in script-land because it can only be accessed
>> through events that we've always been told are too expensive to handle in
>> production (and rightly so).
>>
>> This discussion comes at an opportune time, with the recent SACK
>> vulnerability (https://access.redhat.com/security/vulnerabilities/tcpsack
>> ).
>>
>> Ultimately, I'm not sure what the right model looks like. Adding new
>> events that only are generated once isn't the right answer either, as the
>> SACK vulnerability requires a sequence of malicious packets. However, I
>> think there's a better solution out there than the current behavior.
>>
>>   --Vlad
>>
>> [1] - <
>> https://docs.zeek.org/en/stable/scripts/base/init-bare.bro.html#type-SYN_packet
>> >
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 18, 2019 at 6:41 AM Michał Purzyński <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> What’s needed here is some heuristics. If I see, for example, windows
>>> crypto api, BITS, calls to MS services for reporting what usb devices were
>>> plugged in, certain DNS lookups - that’s MS.
>>> Apple also has similar services. So does iOS and Android. It’s more an
>>> art than a science ;)
>>>
>>> JA3 would also be great.
>>>
>>> On Jun 17, 2019, at 11:34 PM, TQ <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> @Michal,
>>>>
>>>> That's a really good suggestion!  Latest p0f is from 2016, so it's not
>>>> that maintained anyway I guess.  The thing I noticed for software.log is
>>>> that the OS info gets logged only via software calls from apps like
>>>> Firefox/Chrome/etc; it would be nice to not rely on this.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>
>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 10:07 PM Michał Purzyński <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> There is so much data in various logs, like software.log, http.log, SSL,
>>> DNS, known_*, x509 and even in the conn.log that recognizing the OS is most
>>> of the time trivial. I would rather invest into correlation and build a
>>> scoring engine that logs a verdict "based on A, B and C I think this is a
>>> Windows 10"
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 17, 2019 at 1:55 PM Robin Sommer <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Looking for some input here.
>>>>
>>>> Zeek has provided support for passive OS fingerprinting for a long
>>>> time through p0f. However, we are using using a very outdated version
>>>> of the p0f engine, and the signature set is likewise stale (last
>>>> update from 2011!).
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately p0f has changed quite a bit in meantime, so that it's
>>>> not easy to upgrade. While we'd certainly be happy to do that if
>>>> anybody wanted to work on it, for now we are considering to remove the
>>>> old engine that's currently shipping with Zeek because it doesn't seem
>>>> to provide much value anymore.
>>>>
>>>> Please chime in if that would be a problem for you. Is anybody still
>>>> relying on the p0f support in Zeek as it is today?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Robin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Robin Sommer * Corelight, Inc. * [email protected] *
>>>> www.corelight.com
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