Re: Hiding specials, and namerefs

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On Wed, Jul 22, 2026 at 6:24=E2=80=AFAM Bart Schaefer <schaefer@brasslanter=
n.com>
wrote:

> Answering some of my own questions, asking new ones ...
>
> On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 4:51=E2=80=AFPM Bart Schaefer <schaefer@brasslant=
ern.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > B02typeset.ztst
> > (eval):typeset:3: SRANDOM: can't change type of autoloaded parameter
> > Was testing: Global -h variable doesn't hide autoload variable
> >
> > I think this one exemplifies the change, the use of -h shouldn't be a
> > silent no-op.  Thoughts?
>
> Clarification here.  The restriction on -h only applies when
> attempting to change the attribute ("type" in the error message is
> wrong, I've corrected) on an existing parameter.   That applies to
> this test because it uses -gh.  If the -g is removed, a new local is
> being created and that is definitely allowed to hide the special from
> the surrounding scope.  I think I have that working.
>
> New question:  Should there be just a warning in this case, or an
> actual error?  An error would change the behavior.
>

I assume that -h is a rather rarely used flag. It's probably even more
rarely used in cases where it fails to hide the targeted parameter. So,
while an error changes the behavior, there are probably extremely few
existing scripts where this would make a difference. On the other hand,
while you develop a new script, an error is somewhat more likely to grab
your attention.


> > Why does it ever make sense to apply -h to a global?  What's the point
> > of this test?
>
> I still have this question.
>

A plain "local SRANDOM" doesn't hide the special SRANDOM but when -h is
added, it does. The tests with -gh are to ensure that whatever logic
triggers this hiding doesn't kick in when -g is present (or when running at
the top-level).

Does it make sense to apply -h to a global? Probably not but it should
still not cause unexpected results.

I noticed that one of the tests is missing a -g and two cases are missing.
The following patch fixes both issues.

- Fix and complete hiding tests
<https://github.com/zsh-users/zsh/compare/master...paltherr:zsh:fix-and-com=
plete-hiding-tests>

Philippe

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><span style=3D"background-color:tran=
sparent">On Wed, Jul 22, 2026 at 6:24=E2=80=AFAM Bart Schaefer &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; wro=
te:</span></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Answering some of my own ques=
tions, asking new ones ...<br>
<br>
On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 4:51=E2=80=AFPM Bart Schaefer &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>=
&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; B02typeset.ztst<br>
&gt; (eval):typeset:3: SRANDOM: can&#39;t change type of autoloaded paramet=
er<br>
&gt; Was testing: Global -h variable doesn&#39;t hide autoload variable<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I think this one exemplifies the change, the use of -h shouldn&#39;t b=
e a<br>
&gt; silent no-op.=C2=A0 Thoughts?<br>
<br>
Clarification here.=C2=A0 The restriction on -h only applies when<br>
attempting to change the attribute (&quot;type&quot; in the error message i=
s<br>
wrong, I&#39;ve corrected) on an existing parameter.=C2=A0 =C2=A0That appli=
es to<br>
this test because it uses -gh.=C2=A0 If the -g is removed, a new local is<b=
r>
being created and that is definitely allowed to hide the special from<br>
the surrounding scope.=C2=A0 I think I have that working.<br>
<br>
New question:=C2=A0 Should there be just a warning in this case, or an<br>
actual error?=C2=A0 An error would change the behavior.<br></blockquote><di=
v><br></div><div>I assume that -h is a rather rarely used flag. It&#39;s pr=
obably even more rarely used in cases where it fails to hide the targeted p=
arameter. So, while an error changes the behavior, there are probably extre=
mely few existing scripts where this would make a difference. On the other =
hand, while you develop a new script, an error is somewhat more likely to g=
rab your attention.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
&gt; Why does it ever make sense to apply -h to a global?=C2=A0 What&#39;s =
the point<br>
&gt; of this test?<br>
<br>
I still have this question.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>A plain &qu=
ot;local SRANDOM&quot; doesn&#39;t hide the special=C2=A0SRANDOM but when -=
h is added, it does. The tests with -gh are to ensure that whatever logic t=
riggers this hiding doesn&#39;t kick in when -g is present (or when running=
 at the top-level).</div><div><br></div><div>Does it make sense to apply -h=
 to a global? Probably not but it should still not cause unexpected results=
.</div><div><br></div><div>I noticed that one of the tests is missing a -g =
and two cases are missing. The following patch fixes both issues.</div><div=
><br></div>-=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://github.com/zsh-users/zsh/compare/maste=
r...paltherr:zsh:fix-and-complete-hiding-tests">Fix and complete hiding tes=
ts</a><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><div>=C2=A0</div><div>P=
hilippe</div><div><br></div></div></div>

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