Re: Ineraction between \startframedtext and \startcolumns?

Responses to both Wolfgang and Aditya (thanks to both of you).

For people hoping to learn things from reading this: my immediate problem
is solved, but there is one oddity left over (which I don't need to worry
about right now) and one new oddity.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2026 at 23:24 (+0200), Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

> Am 13.04.2026 um 22:18 schrieb Jim:
>> Hi,

>> I have some small amounts of text inside
>>          \startcolumns ... \stopcolumns
>> where I want the columns to be all on one page.

>> I could use a \testpage (or something similar) in front of it, but that
>> would require me knowing how much space to test for.  I could probably put
>> it in a vbox and test on the height+depth of the box, but I imagine ConTeXt
>> has something that doesn't require that level of trickery.

>> I see an example where someone put similarh material inside a frame, so I tried
>> that.  But in the example below, when I compile it there are three
>> oddities:

>> (1) The frame (which I would eventually make invisible with frame=off)
>> does not include the entire width of the enclosed \startcolumns
>> environment.  (Not a major problem, but a bit mysterious to me.)

> Use

> \startframedtext[width=max]

> or

> \startframedtext[width=tw] % width=\textwidth

> to to change the width of the framedtext block.

Thanks very much.  I'm sort of curious about how it (apparently) picked
about three quarters of the textwidth, but I guess I can ponder that later.

>> (2) In the framed version, the line spacing of the lines on the right match
>> those on the left, whereas in the non-framed example the line spacing
>> on the text on the right is smaller.

>> (3) After the \stopframedtext, the textwidth is too small.


>> Q: Is putting
>>          \startcolumns ... \stopcolumns
>> inside
>>          \startframedtext ... \stopframedtext
>> a "forbidden configuration"?

> Putting columns in a framedtext block (or any other vertical box) is allowed
> but the columns environment switches to a different mode.

OK, that's interesting information.  Thanks.

>> If not, can someone tell me how to make oddities (2) and (3) go away?

>> If so, can someone tell me what the best practices are for keeping short
>> sections of multi-column text together?   (Aside from floating it.)

> If you need two (or more) columns for code snippets and explanations etc.
> you should use a different mechanism, e.g. the paragraphs environments can
> be used for this.

Your suggestion is spot on.  I had tried that the other day, and couldn't
get a vertical rule down the middle (I'm trying to follow something someone
already did).  I now see I made the mistake of saying rule=yes instead of
rule=on.



On Mon, Apr 13, 2026 at 17:26 (-0400), Aditya Mahajan wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Apr 2026, Jim wrote:

<snip>

>> (1) The frame (which I would eventually make invisible with frame=off)
>> does not include the entire width of the enclosed \startcolumns
>> environment.  (Not a major problem, but a bit mysterious to me.)

> The default width of \startframedtext is 0.75\hsize.

I was going to ponder that, but a definitive answer saves time.  Thanks.


> I typically use width=broad to get full width, though any other dimension
> will also work (width=local for nested frames, or \hsize, \localhsize, or
> \textwidth)

Thanks for those, especially width=local.


>> (2) In the framed version, the line spacing of the lines on the right match
>> those on the left, whereas in the non-framed example the line spacing
>> on the text on the right is smaller.

> Add \setupinterlinespace after \switchtobodyfont[small]

Thanks.  Which makes me wonder why it is needed there and not in the first
example.  I guess I can ponder that instead of the frame width.


>> (3) After the \stopframedtext, the textwidth is too small.

> Did not test this.

If you want to see it for yourself, just run the whole MWE I included.


>> Q: Is putting
>>         \startcolumns ... \stopcolumns
>> inside
>>         \startframedtext ... \stopframedtext
>> a "forbidden configuration"?

> In general, yes. \stratcolumns is an "outer" column mode.  For columns
> inside frames etc, it is better to use \startsimplecolumns.

Another thanks for that.  I see nothing about simplecolumns in the wiki, I
guess adding in the three simplecolumns pages and putting them as "see
also" in \startcolumns would be a useful thing.


>> If not, can someone tell me how to make oddities (2) and (3) go away?

> \showgrid
> \starttext

> \startbuffer
> Some text which will get set
> between two lines.  The bottom
> line goes across the page.
> \stopbuffer

> % What I want to see looks like this:
> \startcolumns[n=2,distance=0.75cm,separator=rule]
> \typebuffer
> \column
> \switchtobodyfont[small]
> \getbuffer
> \stopcolumns

> \smallskip\line{\hss M\hss}

> \startframedtext[offset=none,width=broad] %, frame=off]
> \startsimplecolumns[n=2,distance=0.5cm,separator=rule]
> \typebuffer
> \column
> \switchtobodyfont[small]
> \getbuffer
> \stopsimplecolumns
> \stopframedtext

> \smallskip\line{\hss M\hss}

> This is more text to see what happens next.
> This is more text to see what happens next.

Interestingly (to me), wrapping \startsimplecolumns ... \stopsimplecolumns
inside \startnarrower ... \stopnarrower doesn't make the columns any
narrower.  I went to look up options to \startsimplecolumns in the wiki
when I discovered it wasn't there.  :-)


On Mon, Apr 13, 2026 at 17:28 (-0400), Aditya Mahajan wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Apr 2026, Wolfgang Schuster wrote:

>> If you need two (or more) columns for code snippets and explanations etc. you
>> should use a different mechanism, e.g. the paragraphs environments can be
>> used for this.

> In particular, if you don't need automatic column breaking, then
> multi-column is same as a very simple table!

Quite true, and maybe it is really the way to go if I want a bit more
direct control over other formatting aspects.  But for now paragraphs seems
to do the trick.

Cheers.
                                Jim
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