Re: bibliography with certain canonical reference
jbf <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.tex.context |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
Caught up in other work right now JP (translation), and already evening
here, so it might be tomorrow before I can get back to this. I'll let
you know how it goes.
Julian
On 17/8/26 17:03, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context wrote:
>
> Hi Julian,
>
> After looking at this more carefully, it seems that the current
> ConTeXt APA specification does not provide structured support for
> an |originalyear| or |origdate| field. In |publ-imp-apa.lua|,
> |year| is recognized, but I cannot see an equivalent field for the
> original publication date. So the present APA definitions do not
> appear to model this information as a standard bibliographic field.
>
> Without modifying the APA style itself, the simplest way to obtain
> the form you want would therefore be not to use
> |alternative=authoryear|, since that already supplies |1998|, but
> to request the author only and provide the two dates together as
> |righttext|:
>
> \cite
> [alternative=author,
> righttext={ca. 350 BCE/1998}]
> [main::aristotle1998]
>
> This should give something like:
>
> (Aristotle, ca. 350 BCE/1998)
>
> Ideally, of course, one would like to be able to write something
> conceptually like:
>
> @book{aristotle1998,
> author = {Aristotle},
> title = {Poetics},
> year = {1998},
> originalyear = {ca. 350 BCE},
> ...
> }
>
> and have the APA renderer automatically combine |originalyear| and
> |year| as |ca. 350 BCE/1998|. But as far as I can see, the present
> ConTeXt APA implementation does not yet do that.
>
> Could you test the |alternative=author| + |righttext| form and
> tell me whether the result is what you were aiming for? If not,
> I’ll look for something closer.
>
> JP
>
>
>
> Le 17/08/2026 à 08:36, jbf a écrit :
>>
>> Well, I intended off-list, but hit the send button too early! Still
>> and all, the question might interest others.
>>
>> Julian
>>
>> On 17/8/26 16:34, jbf wrote:
>>>
>>> JP, off-list for the moment just to clarify a small detail.
>>>
>>> How can I get something like (Aristotle, ca. 350 BCE./1998)? APA
>>> indicates this possibility, but so far the best I can come up with,
>>> using righttext, is something like (Aristotle, 1998, original ca.
>>> 350 BCE)
>>>
>>> Julian
>>>
>>> On 16/8/26 17:41, Jean-Pierre Delange via ntg-context wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Julian,
>>>>
>>>> I think there are actually two possible approaches here, depending
>>>> on whether you want to keep this entirely within your present APA
>>>> setup, or whether Augustine is part of a larger body of
>>>> patristic/classical material for which a canonical-reference model
>>>> would be useful.
>>>>
>>>> 1. Keep APA and add the canonical locator only to the citation
>>>> occurrence
>>>>
>>>> If all your other references are author–year, I would probably keep
>>>> your present APA setup unchanged.
>>>>
>>>> ConTeXt citations can take a |righttext| parameter. With APA this
>>>> is particularly convenient because |righttext| is added as
>>>> supplementary material inside the parenthetical citation.
>>>>
>>>> So instead of:
>>>>
>>>> \cite[authoryear][main::augustine1991confessions]
>>>>
>>>> you can use:
>>>>
>>>> \cite
>>>> [alternative=authoryear,
>>>> righttext={X.33.50}]
>>>> [main::augustine1991confessions]
>>>>
>>>> which should give:
>>>>
>>>> (Augustine, 1991, X.33.50)
>>>>
>>>> while all your ordinary citations can remain:
>>>>
>>>> \cite[authoryear][main::someotherwork]
>>>>
>>>> and continue to produce the normal:
>>>>
>>>> (Author, 2020)
>>>>
>>>> If you want the work title to be explicit as well, you could
>>>> equally write:
>>>>
>>>> \cite
>>>> [alternative=authoryear,
>>>> righttext={{\em Confessions} X.33.50}]
>>>> [main::augustine1991confessions]
>>>>
>>>> The useful distinction here is that |X.33.50| belongs to this
>>>> particular *citation occurrence*, not to the bibliographic identity
>>>> of the 1991 edition. So there is no need to add it permanently to
>>>> the |.bib| record, nor to create a special rendering just for
>>>> Augustine.
>>>>
>>>> 2. Use SBL modelling if Augustine is part of a larger
>>>> patristic/classical corpus
>>>>
>>>> If, however, the book contains many references to Augustine or
>>>> other ancient/patristic texts with canonical locators, then the
>>>> module |context-sbl| may be worth considering.
>>>>
>>>> The SBL implementation provides a |@classictext| category
>>>> specifically for classical texts and ancient works by Church
>>>> Fathers. In that model, the ancient work itself can be kept
>>>> distinct from the modern edition or translation being used.
>>>>
>>>> Schematically:
>>>>
>>>> @classictext{augustine-confessions,
>>>> author = {Augustine},
>>>> title = {Confessions},
>>>> shorttitle = {Conf.},
>>>> crossref = {augustine1991confessions},
>>>> }
>>>> @book{augustine1991confessions,
>>>> ...
>>>> }
>>>>
>>>> The canonical locator then belongs to the citation of the ancient
>>>> work, while the 1991 translation remains the bibliographic edition
>>>> behind it.
>>>>
>>>> This is a more structural solution than |righttext|, and is useful
>>>> when canonical references are not merely occasional exceptions but
>>>> a recurring feature of the document.
>>>>
>>>> So, roughly:
>>>>
>>>> APA + righttext
>>>> -> simplest solution for a few isolated canonical locators
>>>> SBL + @classictext
>>>> -> structural solution for a corpus of ancient or patristic texts
>>>>
>>>> I would not switch an otherwise APA-based document to SBL merely to
>>>> solve one Augustine citation. For your present example, |righttext|
>>>> is probably the simplest and most appropriate answer.
>>>>
>>>> Incidentally, your question is very useful feedback for the new
>>>> bibliography material on the ConTeXt Garden. This particular case —
>>>> keeping an author–year style while adding a canonical or
>>>> work-specific locator only to selected citation occurrences —
>>>> deserves a small explicit example there.
>>>>
>>>> I should also mention that ANSS-CE is expected to receive, this
>>>> autumn, a set of additional chapters devoted specifically to
>>>> bibliography and citation management in ConTeXt. Those chapters are
>>>> currently being written and are intended to provide a more
>>>> systematic treatment of datasets, renderings, local and cumulative
>>>> bibliographies, citation occurrences and locators, specialised
>>>> styles such as SBL, and multilingual or multiscript bibliography.
>>>>
>>>> That does not make the Garden material redundant. On the contrary,
>>>> the Garden remains the natural place for concise, task-oriented
>>>> examples and for cases that emerge from actual user questions —
>>>> like this one.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>>
>>>> JP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Le 16/08/2026 à 01:54, jbf a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>> It is possible that the answer to my question already lies
>>>>> somewhere in the extensive (new) bibliography material in
>>>>> contextgarden, but if so I have missed it. And indeed it may be a
>>>>> very simple solution, but I can't work it out at the moment.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am typesetting an academic work by an author who wants local
>>>>> (end of chapter) bibliographies as well as, obviously, a final
>>>>> complete bibliography. No problem. I can do that and in fact have
>>>>> done so successfully. My problem lies with one particular set of
>>>>> citations from Augustine's/Confessions/, where the canonical
>>>>> references are something like Augustine, 1991, /Confessions/
>>>>> X.33.50. All I can manage to produce at the moment is the usual
>>>>> author-year APA inline format (Augustine, 1991) [Obviously we are
>>>>> referring to a modern 1991 translation, but that is immaterial here].
>>>>>
>>>>> My current set up is:
>>>>>
>>>>> \usebtxdataset
>>>>> [main]
>>>>> [references.bib]
>>>>> \usebtxdefinitions
>>>>> [apa]
>>>>>
>>>>> \definebtxrendering
>>>>> [chapterlist]
>>>>> [apa]
>>>>> [dataset=main,
>>>>> sorttype=authoryear]
>>>>> \definebtxrendering
>>>>> [finallist]
>>>>> [apa]
>>>>> [dataset=main,
>>>>> sorttype=authoryear]
>>>>>
>>>>> And where I need to reference Augustine inline I write, e.g.
>>>>> \cite[authoryear][main::augustine1991confessions] which gives me
>>>>> (Augustine, 1991). Is there is a way I can also include X.33.50 in
>>>>> this inline reference, but only for the Augustine citations? All
>>>>> other citations are strictly author-year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julian
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>>>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>>>>
>>>> maillist :[email protected] /https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
>>>> webpage :https://www.pragma-ade.nl /https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
>>>> archive :https://github.com/contextgarden/context
>>>> wiki :https://wiki.contextgarden.net
>>>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>>
>> maillist :[email protected] /https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
>> webpage :https://www.pragma-ade.nl /https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
>> archive :https://github.com/contextgarden/context
>> wiki :https://wiki.contextgarden.net
>> ___________________________________________________________________________________
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
> If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
>
> maillist :[email protected] /https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
> webpage :https://www.pragma-ade.nl /https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
> archive :https://github.com/contextgarden/context
> wiki :https://wiki.contextgarden.net
> ___________________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________________________
If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki!
maillist : [email protected] / https://mailman.ntg.nl/mailman3/lists/ntg-context.ntg.nl
webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / https://context.aanhet.net (mirror)
archive : https://github.com/contextgarden/context
wiki : https://wiki.contextgarden.net
___________________________________________________________________________________