Re: teTeX: no next release

Yuri and all,

I've been monitoring this thread for a while.

Using package/ports management systems is a good idea, but...

teTeX can be built by the standard ./configure, make, make install.

There are many computer platforms and almost as many package/porting  
systems. These systems are often very much incompatible with each  
other and using more than one on a machine can lead to major  
problems. As a Mac user I read the mailing list for DarwinPorts, the  
currently largest Mac OS X/Darwin ports system in terms of number of  
available packages. There recently was a lengthy thread on variants  
versus dependencies. To recap this in short: unless the packager  
builds a "plain vanilla" version you end up with astronomical numbers  
of variations on dependencies. Note: Both DarwinPorts and Fink list  
teTeX 3.0 ports. There is no mention of TeXLive.

For my needs a small package such as the present teTeX is more useful  
that an expansive TeXLive. Many of pieces of software I install on my  
own machines need TeX for building documentation (e.g. octave).  
Asking the end user to download the equivalent of a DVD or at the  
very least a CD, or for that matter have their computer build  
something this large, makes no sense to me.

What I need is to be able to pull via ftp/http or from cvs/svn a  
(sub-)tree that I can compile as above that provides the equivalent  
functionality of teTeX.

On Jun 1, 2006, at 8:14 AM, Yuri Robbers wrote:
>
> Hello Giuseppe and others,
>
> There already are various elegant (and intelligent) solutions for this
> problem.
>
> Examples of such solutions would be the Gentoo portage system and the
> *BSD "make world" system. An entire OS with thousands of  
> applications is
> managed effectively this way, solving teh dependency problems. SOme of
> the drawbacks these systems have will not even exist with TeX.
>
> I'll describe the Gentoo system in a few lines, as it is the system  
> I'm
> most familiar with, and will suffice as an example. I will also add
> TeX-related notes.
>
> Gentoo portage is a collection of shell scripts that
>
> a) maintain a database of programs , graphics, etc. that can  
> potentially
>    be installed. (TeX: base system + style files + add-on packages +
>    fonts, etc.) In this databse is noted for each "program":
>    - current version(s): multiple versions of packages can be on file,
>      and can in some cases even be installed simultaneously in  
> order to
>      deal with dependency issues
>    - whether a user wants "stable" or "cutting edge development"
>      versions (overall setting with, possibly, per-package variation)
>    - architectures it is available for (i.e. processor type). For TeX
>      this would be the TeX variety: plain, LaTeX, amstex, context,
>      metafont, etc.
>    - dependencies (i.e. which other packages are required) which
>      includes version information (e.g. requires package A, AND
>      any package B older than 1.2, AND (any C version 3.2 or newer
>      OR (C-3.0 or C-3.1 AND D))
>    - incompatibilities (package X and Y are incompatible), or package
>      X and package Y newer than 2.1 are incompatible, or...
>
> b) update the database from any of a large number of servers (TeX:  
> CTAN)
>
> c) install and delete programs, checking dependencies and
>    incompatibilities. Programs are then marked as "installed (with
>    version number)" or "uninstalled" for resolving dependencies.
>
> d) deal with source as well as binary installs.
>
> This system, or the similar *BSD "make world" system could handle
> teTeX / TeXlive package management easily. Distribution maintainers
> have to note that new versions are available, update the database and
> check if it works. After extensive community testing (and perhaps a
> bugzilla-like systsem for reportign errors) final adjustments are made
> to "dependencies" and "incompatibilities" if needed, and the new  
> package
> or new version is marked "stable".
>
> These systems have been shown to work, and several user-friendly GUIs
> exist for some, if not all of them. They has a long and succesful  
> track
> record including on software distributions that are one to two  
> orders of
> magnitude larger than TeX-Live. Maintainers as well as users are  
> happy.
>
> The main drawback is the compilation time of large packages on these
> systems when working completely from source (which is optional for  
> many
> packages anyway), but TeX-Live doesn't contain all that many large
> packages, plus compilation is generally limited to - say - LaTeX-ing
> the .ins and .dtx files. And, as has been said, the system can deal  
> with
> pre-compiled binaries as easily as with source code. So any package  
> can
> be offered as a pre-compiled binary for the system of chocie as  
> well as
> as sourcecode.
>
> Of course the main hurdle when using this for TeXlive would be  
> creating
> the initial database: this will cost many, many man-hours. But we  
> have a
> large community, many people might want to contribute (in fact: it is
> not uncommon in Gentoo that end users supply so-called "ebuilds" to
> developers for incusion in the database)
>
> Please realise I am not necessarily advocating the use of portage per
> se: I am advocating the use of any such system: there are many, and I
> think the _general concept_ is exactly what we need: which specific
> implementation of the concept we could best use should perhaps not be
> discussed until it has been decided whether or not the concept itself
> will be used at all.
>
> Comments, anybody?
>
> Yuri Robbers.
>

Marius
--
Marius Schamschula,  Alabama A & M University, Department of Physics

     The Center for Hydrology Soil Climatology and Remote Sensing
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