Re: Support alt text in LaTeX output

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+David Carlisle. (Ulrike has not made her email address public on Github.)

On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 6:54=E2=80=AFAM Charles Staats <charles.staats.iii@=
gmail.com>
wrote:

> *u-fischer* left a comment (latex3/tagging-project#1491)
> <https://github.com/latex3/tagging-project/issues/1491#issuecomment-50698=
56482>
>
> @charlesstaats these email-cc on the github are a bit confusing ;-).
>
> But if they want to use the alt-key even with older LaTeX they only need
> to define the keys with some dummy commands:
>
> ~~~~
> \usepackage{keyval}
> \makeatletter
> \define@key{Gin}{alt}{}
> \define@key{Gin}{actualtext}{}
> \define@key{Gin}{artifact}{}
> \makeatother
> \usepackage{graphicx}
> ~~~~
>
> From what I understood from the input shown by David (`@center
> @image{./flowchartdemo,www,hhh,a flowchart}` ), I think that the
> `actualtext`  option would be difficult to use as the input doesn't make
> the distinction. But it would be good if an existing non-empty alternativ=
e
> text is at least added as `alt=3D{text}`, and if an empty or missing
> alternative text is mapped to the key `artifact`.
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 5:24=E2=80=AFAM Patrice Dumas <[email protected]> =
wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 01:03:45PM +0100, Gavin Smith wrote:
>> > You haven't explained why any of that is important.
>> >
>> > I feel that this discussion is missing important context, such as what
>> an
>> > "accessible" document is, why it is important, and how you would check
>> if
>> > a document is "accessible" or not.
>>
>> I think that it is the same as accessibility in other context, to
>> generate PDF that people can use even without being able to see, for
>> example.
>>
>> I think that it is a worthy objective in itself, as long as it
>> integrates well with texi2any/Texinfo.  Both for alt for images and for
>> the pdftitle (which I interpret as something like settitle), this
>> fits well and seems relevant.
>>
>> > I don't understand why a
>> > problem with texi2any output is being discussed on a LaTeX bug tracker
>> > in the first place, as that would seem not to be the responsibility of
>> > the LaTeX project in the first place.
>>
>> That's because the LaTeX project people generate LaTeX from Texinfo for
>> the asymptote manual, which is in Texinfo and try to have the PDF
>> obtained from this LaTeX be accessible according to some checker.
>> I think that it is interesting feedback, because the people in the
>> tracker can read and understand the LaTeX code generated by texi2any,
>> figure out why the PDF generated from it is not accessible according to
>> the tool they use and give feedback on what should be fixed, texi2any
>> LaTeX output, or LaTex, for instance.
>>
>> Charles forwarded the discussion here with the purprose of having
>> texi2any changed, which looks good to me.
>>
>> --
>> Pat
>>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">+David Carlisle. (Ulrike has not made her=C2=A0email addre=
ss public on Github.)</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_contai=
ner"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 6:54=E2=
=80=AFAM Charles Staats &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]"=
>[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div style=3D"white-space:pre=
-wrap;display:flex"><strong>u-fischer</strong> left a comment <a href=3D"ht=
tps://github.com/latex3/tagging-project/issues/1491#issuecomment-5069856482=
" target=3D"_blank">(latex3/tagging-project#1491)</a></div><p dir=3D"auto">=
@charlesstaats these email-cc on the github are a bit confusing ;-). <br><b=
r>But if they want to use the alt-key even with older LaTeX they only need =
to define the keys with some dummy commands:<br><br>~~~~<br>\usepackage{key=
val}<br>\makeatletter <br>\define@key{Gin}{alt}{}<br>\define@key{Gin}{actua=
ltext}{}<br>\define@key{Gin}{artifact}{}<br>\makeatother<br>\usepackage{gra=
phicx}<br>~~~~<br><br>From what I understood from the input shown by David =
(`@center @image{./flowchartdemo,www,hhh,a flowchart}` ), I think that the =
`actualtext` =C2=A0option would be difficult to use as the input doesn&#39;=
t make the distinction. But it would be good if an existing non-empty alter=
native text is at least added as `alt=3D{text}`, and if an empty or missing=
 alternative text is mapped to the key `artifact`. <br><br></p></div><br><d=
iv class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul =
24, 2026 at 5:24=E2=80=AFAM Patrice Dumas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pertusus@fr=
ee.fr" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 01:03:45PM=
 +0100, Gavin Smith wrote:<br>
&gt; You haven&#39;t explained why any of that is important.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; I feel that this discussion is missing important context, such as what=
 an<br>
&gt; &quot;accessible&quot; document is, why it is important, and how you w=
ould check if<br>
&gt; a document is &quot;accessible&quot; or not.<br>
<br>
I think that it is the same as accessibility in other context, to<br>
generate PDF that people can use even without being able to see, for<br>
example.<br>
<br>
I think that it is a worthy objective in itself, as long as it<br>
integrates well with texi2any/Texinfo.=C2=A0 Both for alt for images and fo=
r<br>
the pdftitle (which I interpret as something like settitle), this<br>
fits well and seems relevant.<br>
<br>
&gt; I don&#39;t understand why a<br>
&gt; problem with texi2any output is being discussed on a LaTeX bug tracker=
<br>
&gt; in the first place, as that would seem not to be the responsibility of=
<br>
&gt; the LaTeX project in the first place.<br>
<br>
That&#39;s because the LaTeX project people generate LaTeX from Texinfo for=
<br>
the asymptote manual, which is in Texinfo and try to have the PDF<br>
obtained from this LaTeX be accessible according to some checker.<br>
I think that it is interesting feedback, because the people in the<br>
tracker can read and understand the LaTeX code generated by texi2any,<br>
figure out why the PDF generated from it is not accessible according to<br>
the tool they use and give feedback on what should be fixed, texi2any<br>
LaTeX output, or LaTex, for instance.<br>
<br>
Charles forwarded the discussion here with the purprose of having<br>
texi2any changed, which looks good to me.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Pat<br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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