Re: System Clock is updated before the TAI-UTC offset is applied for PHC source in chrony 6.4.1

Bill Unruh <[email protected]> Fri, 16 Jan 2026 13:16:22 -0800 (PST)
Newsgroups gmane.comp.time.chrony.user
Message-ID <[email protected]>
  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

--173737085847408931517685981822492483
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

  I guess I do not know how you demonstrated that it was in the 10s of ns
  range. That chrony tells you the offset is is in that range does not, to =
me,
  demonstrate that it is accurate to that level.

William G. Unruh __|__Hagler Fellow, Distinguished |_Tel:UBC +1(604)822-327=
3
Physics&Astronomy _|__ Research Prof, IQSE         |__  US +1(979)7399950
UBC, Vancouver,BC _|_ TAMU4242, 578 University Dr  |_ [email protected]
Canada V6T 1Z1 ____|__College Stn, Tx, USA 77843  _|_www.theory.physics.ubc=
=2Eca
I cannot reply to emails from outlook or hotmail or other microsoft domains=
=2E

On Sat, 17 Jan 2026, Chris Hodgetts wrote:

> [CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]=E2=80=9CAgreed in the general case. In my setup =
the PHC is disciplined via
> hardware-timestamped PTP from a GPS-locked grandmaster, so the system clo=
ck is aligned to a local hardware
> reference rather than software interrupt timing. I=E2=80=99m not claiming=
 absolute UTC accuracy at single-digit
> nanoseconds, but the relative system-to-PHC and system-to-GM alignment is=
 demonstrably in the tens-of-ns
> range.=E2=80=9D
>
>       On 17 Jan 2026, at 09:35, Bill Unruh <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> Well, the scatter is 9ns. The problem is that the interrupt program takes=
 a
> while to load, and to adjust the clock. Ie, without an independent clockt=
hat
> the computer can quickly read, knowing the precesion is fraught.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> William G. Unruh __|__Hagler Fellow, Distinguished |_Tel:UBC +1(604)822-3=
273
> Physics&Astronomy _|__ Research Prof, IQSE =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0|__ =C2=A0US +1(979)7399950
> UBC, Vancouver,BC _|_ TAMU4242, 578 University Dr =C2=A0|_ unruh@physics.=
ubc.ca
> Canada V6T 1Z1 ____|__College Stn, Tx, USA 77843 =C2=A0_|_www.theory.phys=
ics.ubc.ca
> I cannot reply to emails from outlook or hotmail or other microsoft domai=
ns.
>=20
> On Fri, 16 Jan 2026, Chris Hodgetts wrote:
>
>       [CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]
>
>       Why use the PHC =E2=80=9C
>
>       chronyc tracking
>       Reference ID =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 50484330 (PHC0)
>       Stratum =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 1
>       Ref time (UTC) =C2=A0: Fri Jan 16 08:40:40 2026
>       System time =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 0.000000007 seconds fast of N=
TP time
>       Last offset =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: -0.000000014 seconds
>       RMS offset =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 0.000000029 seconds
>       Frequency =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 14.710 ppm slow
>       Residual freq =C2=A0=C2=A0: +0.000 ppm
>       Skew =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0: 0.017 ppm
>       Root delay =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: 0.000000001 seconds
>       Root dispersion : 0.000000544 seconds
>       Update interval : 1.0 seconds
>       Leap status =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0: Normal
>=20
>
>       Because why not=E2=80=A6.
>       Also I am playing with PTP so it just is what it is and I need the =
accuracy.
>=20
>=20
> I know the feeling. I got interested in ntp and chrony for the same reaso=
n. My
> own need for time precision and accuracy is at best in the seconds range,=
 not
> ns. but it is nice to have bragging rights.
>=20
>
>       But look at that system time=E2=80=A6. It=E2=80=99s in the nanoseco=
nds of accuracy - just because - why not
>       have the best if you can get the best.
>=20
>
>             On 16 Jan 2026, at 19:56, Bill Unruh <[email protected]> w=
rote:
>
>             Although this is certainly a pain, I wonder why you are using=
 the PHC source
>             at all. Use a couple of network sources plus the gps (yes, gp=
s under chrony
>             can get down to sub-micro second accuracy so it would always =
be the primary
>             source, except if it loast tracking, in which case the fallba=
ck would be the
>             time from the network source, which would be in the microseco=
nds, or 10s of
>             microseconds accuracy.
>             What accuracy do you need? I know that 1 second in the life o=
f the universe
>             would give nice bragging rights, but do you really need that?=
 (and no gps
>             would not give that).
>
>             Also, on startup the clock should be assumed to be bad for so=
me time. Why are
>             you switching it off at all?If you want accurate time, let th=
e clock and
>             chrony run for as long as possible.
>
>             William G. Unruh __|__Hagler Fellow, Distinguished |_Tel:UBC =
+1(604)822-3273
>             Physics&Astronomy _|__ Research Prof, IQSE =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0|__ =C2=A0US +1(979)7399950
>             UBC, Vancouver,BC _|_ TAMU4242, 578 University Dr =C2=A0|_ un=
[email protected]
>             Canada V6T 1Z1 ____|__College Stn, Tx, USA 77843 =C2=A0_|_www=
=2Etheory.physics.ubc.ca
>             I cannot reply to emails from outlook or hotmail or other mic=
rosoft domains.
>
>             On Fri, 16 Jan 2026, Simon Plackett wrote:
>
>                   [CAUTION: Non-UBC Email]
>
>                   Hi,
>
>                   Before I send a lot of detail I wondered if anyone had =
seen this
>                   phenomenon. I have just upgraded my local chrony server=
 to Trixie on
>                   RPI 5 with chrony 4.6.1.
>
>                   I had previously been using the ethernet NIC clock as a=
 time source
>                   with ptp4l and phc2sys, which worked fine.
>
>                   During the upgrade I changed to leapseclist from leapse=
ctz as the
>                   latter does not work on Trixie.
>
>                   The issue is that on startup the system clock is set by=
 the PHC
>                   source
>                   before the TAI-UTC adjustment has been applied which me=
ans it jumps
>                   36+ seconds one way and then back again during the star=
tup. This
>                   obviously trashes the PHC as a source, and it didn't ha=
ppen
>                   previously.
>
>                   Essentially PHC is chosen as the source, updates system=
 clock (wrong
>                   by ~37s) then the TAI-UTC adjustment is found which cau=
ses system
>                   time
>                   to jump again in the opposite direction by ~37s
>
>                   I can see this using systemctl status chrony or using j=
ournalctl.
>
>                   I have currently turned PHC off again - but happy to tu=
rn back on
>                   and
>                   send any logs etc that might be useful.
>
>                   The other source is PPS from GPS, which is even more ac=
curate on the
>                   new versions :-)
>
>                   Thanks
>                   Simon
>
>                   --
>                   To unsubscribe email [email protected]=
ily.org
>                   with "unsubscribe" in the subject.
>                   For help email chrony-users-request-kWFZVVI9zxvPqho9SqqRMim6D+HspMUB@public.gmane.org=
g
>                   with "help" in the subject.
>                   Trouble? =C2=A0Email [email protected]
>=20
>=20
>
>             --
>             To unsubscribe email chrony-users-request-kWFZVVI9zxvPqho9SqqRMim6D+HspMUB@public.gmane.org=
g with
>             "unsubscribe" in the subject.
>             For help email chrony-users-request-kWFZVVI9zxvPqho9SqqRMmD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org with=
 "help" in the
>             subject.
>             Trouble? =C2=A0Email [email protected]
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>
--173737085847408931517685981822492483--

-- 
To unsubscribe email chrony-users-request-kWFZVVI9zxvPqho9SqqRMmD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org 
with "unsubscribe" in the subject.
For help email chrony-users-request-kWFZVVI9zxvPqho9SqqRMmD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org 
with "help" in the subject.
Trouble?  Email [email protected]