Re: Re: "Retrieve Revision as..." default file name

Am 16.12.2003 um 00:12 schrieb Jerzy Kaczorowski:

> Jens,
>
>> Yeah, but we're talking about "Retrieve Revision" here, right? What
>> use is "Retrieve Revision" if the retrieved file tries to go out of 
>> the
>> user's way as far as possible? After all, the user chose "Retrieve
>> Revision [As...]" to _get_ that file, right?
>> (snip...)
>> If, OTOH, you're talking about the backup file cvs creates when
>> moving a modified file out of the way, I agree that it's not all 
>> _that_
>> bad if the file is hidden pretty good.
>
> It's not just the coincidence that the names are similiar here. There 
> is
> actually very little difference between the backup files made by CVS 
> and the
> revisions retrieved from the graph. They both represent the version of 
> the
> file put aside for the purposes not directly related to CVS. There is 
> many
> things you may want to do with such file - just see how it looks, 
> compare it
> against the version you are working on - you name it. There are 
> however few
> obvious things you don't want to happen, e.g. to get those files
> accidentally checked in or to start accidentally working on one of 
> these
> instead of the real working file. File must be hard to find and look 
> somehow
> different from the actual files. That restrictions don't apply to the 
> files
> that are temporary (like the one used for view, diff or annotate) 
> because
> they end up in places that you are not going perform any CVS 
> operations or
> developement.

Yes, I kind of agree to that, but OTOH, if somebody retrieves a 
revision, they know the file is there, etc. etc. etc.
You probably can't really prevent people from shooting themselves in 
the foot (other than not providing this functionality)...

>
>> e.g. on Mac OS X, the only way to get access to a file whose name
>> starts with a dot is through terminal (i.e. the command line). There 
>> is
>> just no way you'll ever see a "." file in Finder (Windows users read:
>> "Explorer" )...
>
> Surely there must be some file managers software available to solve 
> that
> problem. I personally can't quite remember when was the last time I 
> used
> Explorer for the reason of it not being able to manage files. It 
> sounds like
> the "Finder" is similiarly broken.

There are other file managers, of course, but the point is that the 
user knowingly performed an action and (s)he should be able to find the 
result easily afterwards without having to rely on some external tool 
to reveal hidden stuff...
If it's really that dangerous to use visible files, I'd rather suggest 
to leave out the "Retrieve Revision" command and only provide the 
"Retrieve Revision As..." command, thus forcing the user to specify the 
name and location for the file.

>
>> If it's gonna hidden that hard, I won't even bother implementing
>> the "Retrieve Revision" command ;-)
>
> I am not sure what/if people use the retrieve command to - which in a 
> way
> determines it's naming convention. It seems to me it's more a 
> psychological
> issue that a usefull tool to actually do something. What is your idea 
> of
> using the retrieved file?

My idea of using the retrieved file is basically to allow for comparing 
against an older version (mainly for non-text files where the external 
diff viewer fails - or maybe it's text, but it's in a form that causes 
the external diff viewer to choke, etc.).
In any event, as I mentioned above, if the user explicitely chooses 
"Retrieve Revision", IMHO it doesn't make sense if the result of the 
action is hidden and not immediately visible to the user. Rather than 
prevent accidents, this will probably cause people to think the command 
is broken, repeating the command, getting frustrated, etc. etc.

Actually, my suggestion would be to only provide the "Retrieve Revision 
As..." command, which should provide a reasonably constructed name 
(personally, I'd prefer the name generation of the view revision 
command) and a reasonable default location (it might remember the last 
location used, or it could just use the file's parent folder as the 
default location).
This is not much more inconvenient than to go hunting for the file, 
maybe move to some other place, maybe restore the extension, so 
whatever tool is used to view the file can properly handle syntax 
highlighting etc.

IMHO, the plain "Retrieve Revision" command (without save prompt) will 
create more frustration than it is providing ease of use.

</jum>


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