Re: HTML Help

Oliver,

> Well, yes but it's basically still the same old Cederqvist 
> with some CVSNT enhancements added that has already been 
> intimidating novice users for ages...

We don't need it in WinCvs help. I will provide the menu to CVS help 
back again, but this time it will search and launch the cvs.chm that 
comes with CVSNT, as per "Alternate CVS" settings.

> I think the GUI could do with a concerted effort to make 
> captions, labels and hint texts: A. consistent throughout 
> all dialogs and menus (e.g. there are at least three 
> different captions for "do not recurse" options) and B. 
> consistent with the corresponding descriptions of options 
> in the commandline client (i.e. cvs -H output) where applicable. 

Sure. And making those help popups will be the perfect time to do 
that, together with using the same resource ID for similiar controls..
.

> There's only so much information you could put into those popups. 
> I see the strength of a full-blown help file here in being able 
> to inject notes, hints and tips and cross-links to related 
> topics, e.g. notes about common mistakes or alternative ways 
> of doing something.

You can put quite a lot. Try to click the question mark cursor on the 
on various controls in the standard color selection dialog. Some of 
these popups go to ver 10 lines of text and explain quite a lot about 
color selection.

The additional help can be easily provided in the full help text for a 
dialog. I just don't see the point in duplicating the images that the 
user can see anyway. Not to mention those take a lot of space and it's 
going to be outdated pretty soon. No screenshots, please!

Actually there are times where screenshots can be usefull. A toolbars 
might be one example. Still, these are rather small and quite 
different from having full sized dialogs in your help files...

> In any case I definitely have troubles imagining how you would 
> be able to pull anything useful out of the documents I created 
> so far if that is what you're after... well, the option 
> descriptions _are_ there but they only make up a tiny fraction 
> of what I'm doing or about to do...

I am after checking it out and seeing where and how to put it in so it 
works good with what I am doing.

 
> I just don't want to put all that effort into producing a 
> full-blown XHTML-compliant documentation project with Glossary, 
> Index, Related topics links, Basic Concepts chapters and 
> nice stylesheets if all that's going to happen to it in the end 
> is that individual option description texts get copy&pasted into 
> tiny popups... 

Not to worry. Apart from a controls and dialogs related topics there 
is a lot of room for general help on other subjects. It's just at the 
moment I want to have the GUI linking and calling into help properly. 
Some of that overlaps with your work, some doesn't. 

> now I know this is not what you have in mind but I think you get 
> the point of my concern. I wanted to produce something that novice 
> users would not just clap shut again right after having taken a 
> quick look at it as I think is the case with most CVS 
> documentation currently out there...

This is actually the case with most of *any* documentation out there ;
)

Trying to put my (a bit incomplete) vision at the moment I see three 
different subjects here:

1. Help about controls on the dialogs (buttons, checkboxes etc.)
2. Help aboout dialogs/commands/operations (commit, update...)
3. General WinCvs/CVS help.

I want to make controls related help as a popups rather than a 
screenshots with all options described. It's simple to make, simple to 
maintain and saves a lot of space.

The dialogs/commands help is best done as separated pages, 
cross-linked as needed (e.g. Checkout dialog naturally linking to the 
Tag and Modules browsers, CVSROOT wizard etc.). Large GUI, shared 
elements will have their own pages - dialogs CVSROOT wizard or 
funtional blocks like "message entry" that is same for commit, import 
and other dialogs. In general, no screenshots here either unless it's 
reasonable. For example it's OK to have a screenshot showing the 
modules combo box with the ellipsis button to invoke browser, or the 
message editing group of controls.

The general CVS help will be left to CVSNT manual which we will link 
to from the help menu.

The general WinCvs help is where most of your work will come into 
play.

It's also possible we will interlink or even reuse the same files in 
any of the help type if it's appropriate.

> Depends. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but if you mean that 
> each helpfile should be self-contained

It should be clear by now that's not the case. We gonna link it all 
over the place...

>The latest snapshot is now at:
> Note again that I don't consider any single topic of this 
> completed so far.

I want to have it organized and checked in if you don't mind. That way 
we can work together and cooperate. I want to get the help files into 
their approximate final place and names so it is technically working. 
I think I need one or two weeks to iron out the code-behind and link 
it properly to the help files. Then we can fill in the empty spaces. 
Then you can keep adding the general help topics as you see fit.

Best Regards,
Jerzy




------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 
Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/NhFolB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> 

 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cvsgui-dev/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
     [email protected]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/