Re: *** RESPECTFULLY NOT SPAM *** Weekly Development Notes Followup

Hey Monique,

thank you for sharing your observations!

bjormose

On 24.09.21 14:48, Monique Dewanchand via Bf-committers wrote:
> I think Ryan's remarks raises some valid points.
>
> Putting words like "sigh" in your reports, to me, is not very professional.
> As developers we all have had our moments of frustration and sometimes
> unwillingly express those.
> I hope we can forgive Bastien for this.
> However I would expect from a Development Coordinator to notice these types
> of things and act upon them. But perhaps my expectations are incorrect.
> Is someone responsible for the quality of 'official' development
> communications (like release notes etc )?
>
> In my experience, years and years ago, when there were only 2 devs
> receiving some minimalistic contributions from Blender, I loved
> contributing to Blender.
> I found the overall vibe and attitude very pleasant, there was respect,
> room for good discussions and constructive criticism. This vibe rapidly
> changed when Blender started to hire more and more devs. (More)Processes,
> rules and regulations made their way into Blender development, all for good
> reasons, but at the expense of respect, good discussions and constructive
> criticism.
> Contributing to Blender Development had become frustrating for me, so I
> stopt and decided to contribute in a different way (teaching Blender and
> working on add-ons).
>
> In recent years I've noticed quite an improvement in the way blender
> developers are communicating with "contributors". Is it perfect? Not yet.
> Is there room for improvement? Yes, but it's definitely better than what it
> used to be. I do think that contributors are still very valuable for
> Blender development so I hope that blender devs, coordinators and
> contributors take a bit more care in how they cooperate and communicate.
>
> kind regards,
> Monique
>
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2021 at 12:42 PM Thomas Dinges via Bf-committers <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Ryan,
>>
>> I am not Dalai, but as Developer Community Coordinator I will try to
>> answer.
>>
>> 1) As Ankit already mentioned, the message was likely marked as spam by
>> some e-mail filter. Nothing more :)
>>
>> 2) Bastien replied to your mail and explained the situation and the
>> reason for his note in the report. He also apologized and confirmed that
>> it was not meant as a personal attack.
>>
>> The Blender developers do their best to communicate professionally and
>> friendly. In my (round about) 7 years as contributor, in my free time, I
>> always felt welcome.
>> There were of course times, when I disagreed with the decisions made by
>> module owners or the admins. At times this was a little bit frustrating.
>> But the communication was always professional and friendly.
>>
>> We can of course argue about remarks such as the "(sigh...") in a
>> report, but Bastien explained the situation and I don't see a personal
>> attack in there, only a little bit of frustration and a remark that is
>> human.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Thomas
>>
>> Am 24.09.2021 um 07:59 schrieb Ryan Inch via Bf-committers:
>>> Thanks for your quick reply Bastian.  My email wasn't a prompt to be
>>> defensive but a request for clarification from Dalai as the Blender
>>> Development Coordinator.  Depending on what Dalai says, I'll follow up
>>> with your points if need be because this is not about me but how
>>> community developers are treated.
>>>
>>> Dalai, as Blender Development Coordinator, one specific request from
>>> the Epic MegaGrant was to make Blender more professional.  I and other
>>> community devs and members do not think this kind of notation is
>>> professional.  It also disincentivizes engagement between core devs
>>> and community devs who do consider this a type of attack.
>>>
>>> So again, my question to you as the Blender Development Coordinator is
>>> 'In what case is it acceptable for a developer to put something like
>>> "Spent time on re-explaining/re-investigating T9599 (sigh…)." in their
>>> official weekly development notes?' And now, in what case is it
>>> acceptable to mark an email asking about such an issue as spam?  I was
>>> under the impression that personal attacks were not tolerated?
>>>
>>> Ryan
>>>
>>> On 2021-09-21 06:00 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2021 09:20:11 +0200
>>>> From: Bastien Montagne <[email protected]>
>>>> To: Ryan Inch via Bf-committers <[email protected]>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Bf-committers] *** SPAM *** Weekly Development Notes
>>>>      Followup
>>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ryan,
>>>>
>>>> Not sure how you see that as a personal attack? Fact is, I think
>>>> spending half a day on something does earns it a note in the weekly
>>>> report.
>>>>
>>>> And yes, I was frustrated spending time having to demo the issue after
>>>> explaining it's cause/source, finding again the exact use case
>>>> triggering it, rebuilding both branch and master to ensure it was proper
>>>> example, etc. We all have (tight) schedules and I was frustrated this
>>>> was considered high priority enough to take it over more pressing
>>>> matters for Blender 3.0 upcoming BCon2.
>>>>
>>>> I know that expressing personal frustration may not be a good idea, but
>>>> that does not in any case make it a personal attack, sorry if you felt
>>>> it like that.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Bastien.
>>>>
>>>> On 9/21/21 8:49 AM, Ryan Inch via Bf-committers wrote:
>>>>> Hello Dalai,
>>>>> I missed reading Bastien's weekly notes last week or I would have
>>>>> brought this issue up then.  In Bastien's notes for Week 425 - 09/04
>>>>> to 09/10, one of his notes is this: "Spent time on
>>>>> re-explaining/re-investigating T9599 (sigh…)."
>>>>>
>>>>> In what case is it acceptable for a developer to put something like
>>>>> this in their official weekly development notes?  I was under the
>>>>> impression that personal attacks were not tolerated?  (And for the
>>>>> record it's D9599 not T)
>>>>>
>>>>> Ryan
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> End of Bf-committers Digest, Vol 993, Issue 1
>>>> *********************************************
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