IRC Logs

*******************************************************************
[03:13] tvon ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[03:13] <tvon> Anyone know where I might find an 'official' list of genres?
[03:13] <tvon> eg, id => genre mapping
[03:15] <bitshifter> tvon: http://www.id3.org/id3v2-00.txt  has a list
[03:19] <tvon> bitshifter: thanks much
[03:19] Rotty ([email protected]) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[03:21] Marsupilami23 ([email protected]) left irc: "I don't wanna grow up, I'm a Toys R Us Kid. There's a million toys at Toys R Us that I can play with!"
[03:38] lilo ([email protected]) left irc: "brb"
[03:38] lilo ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[03:50] mxpxpod ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[03:56] <thaytoo> hrmn
[03:57] Action: thaytoo ponders calling the next gst-editor release "I haven't testes avimux in ages" in honour of the recent gnome controversy
[04:02] <ds-work> recent gnome controversy?
[04:04] <tvon> Where might I find info on setting up differnt sinks with gst?  I normaly use gstreamer-properties ing nome however it seems to not exist on fedora
[04:05] <ds-work> you can edit the gconf keys directly
[04:06] <ds-work> system/gstreamer/default
[04:09] <tvon> ah, thats the stuff
[04:09] <tvon> ds-work: thanks
[04:12] <tvon> How can I figure out what sinks I have available?
[04:13] <tvon> ah, nm
[04:13] Action: taaz notices buildbot doing media testing now
[04:13] <tvon> xmlinspect seems to show them
[04:14] <tvon> hrmph
[04:14] <tvon> xvimagesink was unable to obtain the X11 context.
[04:15] <tvon> That error seems to spit regardless of what sink I stick in gconf
[04:17] <tvon> ah
[04:29] <thaytoo> ds-work: the gnome 2.5.3 release was called 'That and a pair of testicles' 
[04:30] <thaytoo> which sparked some heated discussion on the desktop-devel list
[04:30] <ds-work> ah yes
[04:31] <ds-work> heh, I completely missed BBB's typo
[04:31] <thaytoo> tvon: I think it may be broken for me too
[04:31] <thaytoo> I can't test properly from here though
[04:33] <tvon> thaytoo: I'm runnig fedora 1.90 with some hacked up rpm spec files to try to get some multimedia love on this box...so the problem could be any number of places :-D
[04:34] <tvon> Granted, I started using fedora to get away from the problems I tend to create in gentoo...perhaps it wasnt such a hot plan
[04:36] <thaytoo> are you running CVS gnome?
[04:36] <tvon> no
[04:36] <thaytoo> gstreamer, rather
[04:36] <tvon> no again
[04:36] <tvon> 7.5
[04:36] <thaytoo> oh, ok
[04:37] <tvon> You were speaking of cvs?
[04:37] <thaytoo> xvinfo shows a valid Xv context?
[04:37] <tvon> no clue, just run xvinfo?
[04:37] <thaytoo> yup
[04:37] <tvon> ah, no adapters present is a problem I suppose?
[04:37] <thaytoo> yep
[04:38] <tvon> What area might I investigate to fix that?
[04:38] <thaytoo> check your Xserver config, graphics card and Xserver logs
[04:38] <tvon> ahh
[04:38] <thaytoo> you need to make sure that /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 has 'extmod' loading
[04:38] <thaytoo> and no errors in the log file
[04:38] Action: ds-work wants TiVo-like skip buttons on gst-player
[04:38] <thaytoo> what's the graphics card?
[04:38] <tvon> tis playing 
[04:39] <tvon> xinerama, with nvida....hrm
[04:39] <tvon> one card is crap, other is semi-decent a year ago
[04:39] <tvon> trying to find what exactly...
[04:39] <tvon> using 'nv' module
[04:40] <thaytoo> XVideo should work with Xinerama fine
[04:40] <tvon> RIVA TNT2 and  GeForce 4
[04:40] <thaytoo> look if it tries to start in the XFree86 log
[04:40] <thaytoo> both those should do Xv, I think
[04:41] <tvon> Loading extension XVideo and XVideo-MotionCompensation...and extmod seems tload without errors
[04:41] <tvon> no EE's...
[04:41] <tvon> one WW about apm
[04:41] <tvon> seems kosher
[04:43] <thaytoo> I don't know where the problem is then
[04:43] <thaytoo> but you need xvinfo to show a working adapter
[04:43] <tvon> Okay
[04:43] <tvon> I'll poke around, now that I know that its XVideo in some way
[04:51] <thaytoo> cool
[05:01] <tvon> Think I've got it
[05:01] <tvon> nv seems to not support xvideo on RIVA cards...so I guess xinerma takes the lowest common denominator or something (even though the window opens on the GeForce monitor)
[05:01] <tvon> if I fire up X with a single head on the GeForce, xvinfo gives a bunch of information
[05:02] <tvon> guess I'll watch my movies over there
[05:02] Action: tvon shrugs
[05:04] <tvon> ..granted, nothing is playing still..but nothing is segfaulting like it was :-D
[05:05] <thaytoo> okay
[05:06] <Misirlou> Is video conversion well supported yet?
[05:07] <Misirlou> e.g., converting from raw YUV to MPEG-2
[05:12] NFusi0n ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[05:13] <ds-work> ffenc_mpeg
[05:14] <NFusi0n> ds-work: that's what they want you to think!
[05:20] <Misirlou> Cool, now how about DV to YUV4MPEG?
[05:21] <ds-work> spider ! ffenc_mpeg
[05:22] <Misirlou> Just FYI, I'm doing a short article on "How to Get Started with Theora" or something and I'd like to plug GStreamer instead of MPlayer. :)
[05:31] jcsston` ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[05:32] Action: ds-work wonders how to make GstPlay use a separate thread
[05:40] tvon ([email protected]) left irc: "Leaving"
[05:46] sub_pop ([email protected]) left irc: "Client exiting"
[05:48] sub_pop ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[05:49] <bluejay> Rhythmbox has been segfaulting on startup with CVS gst for the last few days. I think it's a gst bug because an old rb does just about the same thing.
[05:55] jcsston ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[06:05] aeyakovenko ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[06:06] <aeyakovenko> hello
[06:06] <aeyakovenko> anyone know what this error means?  (process:1650): GStreamer-CRITICAL **: file gstinterface.c: line 144 (gst_implements_interface_cast): assertion `gst_element_implements_interface (GST_ELEMENT (from), iface_type)' failed
[07:04] harshy ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[07:09] thaytoo ([email protected]) left irc: "bye"
[07:29] <harshy> whoa thats odd
[07:30] <harshy> make install for gstreamer looks for mkinstalldirs outside thge cvs checkout dir
[07:36] mariano ([email protected]) left irc: "Leaving"
[07:39] AlexCONRAD ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[07:44] aeyakovenko ([email protected]) left #gstreamer.
[07:47] aeyakovenko ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[07:47] <aeyakovenko> hello
[07:47] <aeyakovenko> anyone know whats wrong with this pipeline, why it doesnt work?  "gst-launch-0.7 videotestsrc ! ffenc_h263p ! ffdec_h263 ! xvideosink"
[07:53] KoRnouille ([email protected]) left irc: Client Quit
[08:01] <aeyakovenko> hello
[08:17] ChrisHJW ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[08:23] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)
[08:24] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[08:30] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[08:41] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[08:44] kmaraas_ ([email protected]) left irc: Client Quit
[08:55] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[08:56] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[09:17] markey ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[09:21] somex1 ([email protected]) left irc: "Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"
[09:30] ChrisHJW ([email protected]) left irc: Client Quit
[09:49] aeyakovenko ([email protected]) left #gstreamer.
[09:58] markey ([email protected]) left irc: "leaving"
[10:06] jcsston` ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[10:19] sub_pop ([email protected]) left irc: "Client exiting"
[10:21] jdahlin ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[10:22] dolphy ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[10:30] Nick change: mathrick|sleep -> mathrick
[10:30] <mathrick> mornin
[10:35] thomasvs ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[10:53] NFusi0n ([email protected]) left irc: "leaving"
[11:06] thomasvs ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[11:13] Shoragan ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[11:26] markey ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[11:27] bitshifter ([email protected]) left irc: "bye"
[11:27] lupusBE ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[11:29] bitshifter ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[11:36] mathrick ([email protected]) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[11:42] lupusBE ([email protected]) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[11:48] sxpert_work ([email protected]) left irc: "Leaving"
[11:48] sublett ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[11:49] Nick change: markey -> AFK
[11:51] sxpert_work ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[11:52] sxpert_work ([email protected]) left irc: Client Quit
[11:58] <thomasvs> jdahlin: def threads_init():
[11:58] <thomasvs>     import gtk
[11:58] <thomasvs>     gtk.threads_init()
[11:58] <thomasvs> jdahlin: why is this done from gtk and not from glib ?
[11:58] <jdahlin> thomasvs, because the functions are actually in gdk
[12:05] <dolphy> and that's not the same thread initing stuff
[12:07] <thomasvs> ok, I'll rephrase - why do we need it form the gst bindings ?
[12:09] <jdahlin> if you want to use threads, you need to call that function
[12:09] <jdahlin> perhaps it should always be called from pygtk
[12:09] <jdahlin> but I dunno, since you need to call it from C too IIRC
[12:12] bilboed ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[12:17] bilboed ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[12:30] sxpert_work ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[12:51] <jdahlin> thomasvs, verified, python bindings seems to work
[12:51] <jdahlin> brb, new kernel
[12:51] jdahlin ([email protected]) left irc: "Leaving"
[12:58] wheels ([email protected]) left irc: "using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.9"
[13:08] <AlexCONRAD> hey, after an mpegdemux, should I flow the video and audio streams into threads ? or bins ?
[13:23] kmaraas ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[13:27] Nick change: AFK -> RE
[13:30] <AlexCONRAD> thomasvs: http://aconrad.nerim.net/debug/videowall.gif
[13:30] <AlexCONRAD> does this looks good to you ?
[13:32] <AlexCONRAD> other peeps can of course comment my design
[13:37] Nick change: RE -> markey
[13:38] alley_cat ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[13:42] <dolphy> AlexCONRAD: you don't really need mpegparse IMHO
[13:47] alley_cat ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[13:52] <AlexCONRAD> dolphy: if I don't mpegparse, it sends the whole video on the network in a second (100mb/s)
[13:53] <AlexCONRAD> it would send the video as fast as it reads it
[14:07] <AlexCONRAD> im out to lunch
[14:08] Nick change: AlexCONRAD -> AlexCONRAD[lunch
[14:21] psyduck ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[14:24] BBB_ ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[14:24] <BBB_> dolphy: da?
[14:24] <BBB_> dolphy: can you fix a bug for me?
[14:25] <BBB_> I have a good testcase ;)
[14:42] Nick change: markey -> markey|afk
[14:43] BBB_ ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[14:43] BBB_ ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[14:46] BBB__ ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[14:46] BBB_ ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[14:51] BBB__ ([email protected]) left irc: Client Quit
[15:08] sxpert|work ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[15:09] jdahlin ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[15:10] Nick change: khalek -> kh_zZz
[15:12] sxpert_work ([email protected]) left irc: Client Quit
[15:13] smoke ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[15:17] Nick change: markey|afk -> markey
[15:25] kmaraas ([email protected]) left irc: Client Quit
[15:47] psyduck ([email protected]) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[16:01] foser ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[16:19] AlexCONRAD[lunch ([email protected]) left irc: "Leaving"
[16:21] BB1 ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[16:21] BB1 ([email protected]) left irc: Client Quit
[16:22] BB1 ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[16:23] Nick change: BB1 -> BBB
[16:23] <BBB> dolphy?
[16:23] Action: BBB pokes dolphy
[16:24] <jdahlin> he's out atm
[16:24] <BBB> hm
[16:24] <BBB> is thomas in?
[16:24] <BBB> or can you help fixing bugs?
[16:24] <BBB> this one is small
[16:24] <jdahlin> no, he's out too
[16:24] <jdahlin> maybe, depends :)
[16:25] <BBB> in gst-plugins/gst-libs/gst/gconf/gconf.c, there's some code to get a videosink... if there's no gconf entry, we use the default
[16:25] <BBB> now, do a grep xvideosink gconf.c :)
[16:25] <BBB> that shouldn't be, because xvideosink is deprecated
[16:25] <BBB> that should be ximagesink
[16:26] <jdahlin> it's ximagesink in my gconf.c
[16:26] <BBB> this is one of the reasons that uninstalled gst-plugins won't playback anything - there *is* no video window
[16:26] <BBB> hm?
[16:26] <BBB> it's not here...
[16:26] <BBB> who committed that change?
[16:26] <jdahlin> what version?
[16:26] <BBB> dunno, not at home right now ;)
[16:26] <jdahlin> I'm on 1.18
[16:26] <BBB> cvs log gconf.c?
[16:27] <jdahlin> 2004-03-03  Julien MOUTTE <[email protected]>
[16:27] <jdahlin>  
[16:27] <jdahlin>          * gst-libs/gst/gconf/gconf.c: (gst_gconf_get_default_video_sink):
[16:27] <jdahlin>          Using ximagesink as a default if no gconf key found. We should
[16:27] <jdahlin>          probably consider using alsasink instead of osssink for the audio
[16:27] <jdahlin>          part.
[16:27] <BBB> ugh, dolphy fixed that hours ago
[16:27] Action: BBB winks
[16:27] <jdahlin> or, rather yesterday
[16:27] <BBB> and I've been looking for that bug for ages
[16:27] Action: BBB kicks himself
[16:27] <jdahlin> you're so late ;-)
[16:27] <BBB> hm, yes
[16:28] <BBB> can you also fix the gst-launch videotestsrc ! ffcolorspace ! videoscale ! ximagesink pipeline?
[16:28] <jdahlin> did you see that I did some hacking on gsr btw?#
[16:28] <BBB> :)
[16:28] <jdahlin> gnome-sound-recorder
[16:28] <BBB> no... I'm not on GSR's lists
[16:28] <BBB> I should be
[16:28] <BBB> :p
[16:28] Action: BBB checks logs
[16:28] <jdahlin> me neither, we just wanted things to be fixed
[16:28] <jdahlin> eg, to work for gnome 2.6
[16:29] <BBB> it worked for me
[16:29] <BBB> but... what did you change? :)
[16:29] <jdahlin> Lot's of stuff :-)
[16:29] <jdahlin> but, most visibly, usage of audio profiles
[16:29] <jdahlin> so you can choose from an optionmenu, loseless, lossy etc
[16:30] <jdahlin> no UI changes apart from that though
[16:32] <BBB> so, does it work for you now?
[16:32] <jdahlin> yeah
[16:32] <BBB> good :)
[16:32] <jdahlin> it has better error reporting too
[16:32] <BBB> GNOME people will be happy
[16:33] Action: jdahlin hopes so
[16:33] <BBB> I thought I integrated error reporting a while ago?
[16:34] <jdahlin> now it won't segfault if it can't find the default src element
[16:35] KoRnouille ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[16:35] <BBB> oh, details
[16:35] <BBB> :)
[16:35] <BBB> I'm bad at those
[16:35] <BBB> I fixed GSR "largely" a while ago... but some small things remained broken
[16:36] <jdahlin> I can't remember the details
[16:36] <BBB> like FLAC recording didn't work...
[16:36] <jdahlin> I just tried to use it and lots of things crashed
[16:36] <BBB> (but it'd give a nice warning instead of segfault, which is good)
[16:36] <BBB> hm...
[16:36] <jdahlin> try it out :)
[16:36] <BBB> that might be because of one other commit then
[16:36] <BBB> I'm not on a Linux box right now
[16:36] <BBB> will try out tonight :)
[16:37] <jdahlin> great
[16:38] <KoRnouille> hi !
[16:38] <BBB> but it sounds like a good thing!
[16:38] <BBB> jdahlin: now that you're at it
[16:38] <BBB> do you want to accessibilitize gst-mixer? :)
[16:38] <jdahlin> BBB, hmm
[16:38] <jdahlin> BBB, isn't that a bit late for 2.6 anyway?
[16:38] <BBB> I asked Ted to do that months ago, but I don't think he did
[16:38] <BBB> yes
[16:38] <BBB> but it needs to be done
[16:38] <BBB> :/
[16:39] <dolphy> BBB: hi
[16:39] <BBB> oh wait
[16:39] <BBB> he did it
[16:39] <BBB> a week ago
[16:39] Action: BBB finds out all sort of things
[16:39] <BBB> :)
[16:39] <KoRnouille> to those who weren't there before : http://aconrad.nerim.net/debug/videowall.gif
[16:39] <KoRnouille> please comment
[16:39] <BBB> can anyone tell me how to subscribe to gnome-media's CVS commit list?
[16:40] <BBB> hey dolphy
[16:40] <BBB> dolphy: please fix totem + ximagesink
[16:40] <BBB> dolphy: :P
[16:40] pb_ ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[16:42] <BBB> and does gnome-media have a bugzilla list?
[16:42] Action: BBB is really far behind in all this
[16:44] <BBB> anyway
[16:44] <BBB> bbl
[16:44] <BBB> work calls
[16:44] <BBB> bye!
[16:44] BBB ([email protected]) left #gstreamer.
[16:45] mxpxpod ([email protected]) left irc: "*sigh* I don't want to come up with a quit message..."
[16:49] <KoRnouille> can you have a ghost pad on the sink side ?
[16:52] Nick change: markey -> markey|afk
[16:56] <thomasvs> man
[16:56] <thomasvs> what's the deal with that ffmpeg setup now ?
[17:04] teuf ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[17:04] <teuf> hi
[17:04] <teuf> any idea when next gstreamer release will be ?
[17:05] <thomasvs> sometime next week, I think
[17:05] <thomasvs> at least, that's my plan :)
[17:06] <teuf> ok, would be nice before the opt crash bytes too many people ;)
[17:06] <thomasvs> yeah
[17:06] <thomasvs> ugh, the ffmpeg stuff is now completely broken
[17:06] <thomasvs> what did they DO to that module ? :)
[17:07] Action: thomasvs thinks again about a clean way to integrate this sort of thing
[17:18] <teuf> 'they' == the ffmpeg hackers or the other gstreamer hackers ?
[17:22] <thomasvs> I think it's us :)
[17:24] spyder482 ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[17:27] psyduck ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[17:30] earthworm ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[17:31] <earthworm> thomasvs: how goes the packaging mate?
[17:31] <thomasvs> earthworm: takes time rebuilding, doing the final tests on the last packages
[17:31] <thomasvs> I hate packaging :)
[17:32] <earthworm> i tried it once and got totally lost with it, and that was for a simple package
[17:32] <earthworm> glad to hear its going well anyway
[17:33] <earthworm> does Xine use this ffmpeg thing for its video playback?
[17:33] <thomasvs> yeah
[17:36] <earthworm> is there anything you are supposed to do to get the video playback quality up (hardware acceleration wise)? i have the "v4l" extension loaded, but playback still seem 'flickery'
[17:38] <thomasvs> v4l is unrelated to playback
[17:38] <thomasvs> what do you mean, flickery ?
[17:40] <earthworm> i can see occasional lines, i think its the actual rendering of the video, not being sync'd properly
[17:40] <earthworm> hard to explain
[17:42] psyduck ([email protected]) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[17:43] psyduck ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[17:55] kmaraas ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[17:56] Nick change: markey|afk -> markey
[17:57] ensonic ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[17:58] sxpert|work ([email protected]) left irc: Client Quit
[17:58] <ensonic> hi hi
[17:59] Action: ensonic wishes that gst developers leave -wall enabled before commiting (see bugzilla id=136192) 
[17:59] <KoRnouille> thomasvs: queue b_queue does not connect different schedulers
[17:59] <KoRnouille> what it this supposed to mean ?
[18:00] <KoRnouille> queue is in a .Bin
[18:00] <KoRnouille> does it have to be in a .Thread ?
[18:04] sublett ([email protected]) left irc: "I like food, food is good!"
[18:18] <thomasvs> ensonic: it's already built with -wall
[18:19] <jdahlin> Larry -Wall
[18:23] <ensonic> thomasvs: seems not, then the bug would not have been commited
[18:25] <ensonic> ciao
[18:25] ensonic ([email protected]) left #gstreamer.
[18:39] gheet ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[18:44] #gstreamer: mode change '+o thomasvs' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[18:45] Topic changed on #gstreamer by [email protected]: GStreamer "In A Bar" 0.7.5 and GStreamer Plugins "Under The Sea" 0.7.5 are out - see http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/ - Let's aim for 0.8.0 on monday
[18:45] <earthworm> cool
[18:46] <thomasvs> well :)
[18:46] <thomasvs> we'll see
[18:47] <KoRnouille> thomasvs: what will be the main changes ?
[18:47] <thomasvs> KoRnouille: of ?
[18:47] <KoRnouille> 0.8.0
[18:47] <thomasvs> yeah, but against what ?
[18:47] <KoRnouille> 0.7.5 I guess
[18:47] <teuf> with broken pausing in rb ?
[18:47] <teuf> ;)
[18:48] <thomasvs> teuf: well, that's going to be my next mail :)
[18:48] <thomasvs> we need a fix, even if it's a hack
[18:48] <thomasvs> I don't care how ugly it is, it has to work
[18:48] <teuf> a "release-device" property on sinks ? ;)
[18:49] <teuf> hm, that means I should hurry to commit this length stuff to gstmad
[18:50] teuf ([email protected]) left irc: "Client exiting"
[18:50] <thomasvs> teuf: yeah, I was thinking about a hack like that
[18:58] gheet ([email protected]) left irc: "Download Gaim: http://gaim.sourceforge.net/"
[19:21] Uraeus ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[19:21] <Uraeus> good evening
[19:22] <thomasvs> hey
[19:22] <thomasvs> Uraeus: so, tried gnome-sound-recorder yet ?
[19:23] <Uraeus> no, my gst-plugins compile crashed yesterday before it was finished (I think gconf shuts down gnome is I let my machine idle a little bit)
[19:23] <Uraeus> trying again now
[19:24] Action: Uraeus really need to invest in a new machine soon, 600MHz doesn't cut it anymore
[19:27] jdahlin ([email protected]) left irc: "Leaving"
[19:29] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[19:36] jcsston ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[19:37] Nick change: earthworm -> earthw0m
[19:37] Nick change: earthw0m -> earthw0rm
[19:42] pb_ ([email protected]) left irc: "Client exiting"
[19:44] aeyakovenko ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[19:45] ibsteveog ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[19:45] <aeyakovenko> hello
[19:47] <ibsteveog> hi
[19:48] <aeyakovenko> i am having some weird problems with fdsrc, for some reason the pipeleine doesnt pull any data from the fd
[19:51] <ds-work> Uraeus: http://www.emachines.com/products/products.html?prod=eMachines_M5309
[19:52] <thomasvs> ds-work: ugh, found-tag signal is with dash, all others with underscore
[19:52] <thomasvs> ds-work: can my sense of aesthetics fix that, or is it too late ?
[19:54] <Uraeus> ds-work: you think I should get one of those e-machines?
[19:55] <Uraeus> hmm, it seems rather nice and not to expensive
[19:55] <Uraeus> wonder if I can get it with Norwegian keyboard
[19:59] <ds-work> thomasvs: glib matches - and _ for signals, iirc
[19:59] <ds-work> Uraeus: I have one.  It's a bit big, but it's great
[20:00] <ds-work> and it was cheap, so I can get another one next year :)
[20:00] <Uraeus> ideally I want a laptop using Nvidia chipset for graphics, not sure they exist though
[20:02] <aeyakovenko> can i use a unix pipe or socketpair as an fdsrc and sink?
[20:07] <ds-work> aeyakovenko: yes
[20:08] kwm ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[20:12] jcsston ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[20:16] <thomasvs> ds-work: yeah, I know.  so is it fine if I change it in g_signal_new ?
[20:18] <ds-work> thomasvs: sure
[20:19] dolphy ([email protected]) left irc: "Network down, IP Packets delivered via UPS"
[20:21] <thomasvs> ugh, why are our signal prototypes so incredibly nonconsistent
[20:22] <sxpert> thomasvs: because you propose yourself to fix them ?
[20:22] Action: sxpert ducks
[20:26] <aeyakovenko> ds-work i have a pipe like this fdsrc ! ffdec_h263 ! xfivideosink, but for some reason nothing is pulling data from the pipe
[20:26] wtay-zZz ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[20:27] <aeyakovenko> ds-work the fdsrc is really a socketpair, and i am writing data to it untill it fills up and blocks forever
[20:35] foser ([email protected]) left irc: "[ I want to believe ]"
[20:36] wheels ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[20:39] <aeyakovenko> whats also weird is that when i unref that pipelien my pgrogram freezes
[20:49] Company ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[20:51] Action: Company got a mail from ds-work today with Beagle.J
[20:51] <ds-work> I hope you feel loved
[20:51] <Company> i was busy wondering who'd have both our mails on his Windows machine
[20:52] <ds-work> imagine my surprise when I got an email from [email protected] telling me my account will be suspended
[20:52] <Company> with a p?assword-protected zip file?
[21:03] <aeyakovenko> is there a reason why a unref(pipeline) woudl block
[21:03] <thomasvs> Company: any idea on that John's problem with audioconvert and vorbisdec ?
[21:03] <thomasvs> aeyakovenko: no - but check the debug log
[21:04] <aeyakovenko> thomasvs: how do i turn on debugging?
[21:04] <aeyakovenko> thomasvs: i mean the log
[21:05] <thomasvs> aeyakovenko: --gst-debug=*:5
[21:07] <aeyakovenko> thomasvs: i can just pass that into gst_init?
[21:07] <thomasvs> aeyakovenko: no, to the command line
[21:08] <taaz> oh, what has become of my poor little gst-python effort... ;)
[21:09] <aeyakovenko> thomasvfs: this happening inside my program
[21:09] <thomasvs> taaz: what, you're not happy with it ?
[21:09] <thomasvs> taaz: it's really getting good to use IMO
[21:09] <taaz> you all could have reasonably just started over rather than change every file ;)
[21:10] <thomasvs> taaz: I just let the young pup do, I don't know what he's doing even :)
[21:10] <thomasvs> taaz: today he was showing me the internal C code of python that makes python modules of C code
[21:10] <thomasvs> taaz: I quickly ran away
[21:10] <aeyakovenko> thomasvs: well it works as a argument in gst_init
[21:10] <thomasvs> aeyakovenko: it might, yeah ... but it's a lot simpler if you just start your app with that argument
[21:10] <taaz> thomasvs: it's not that scary is it?
[21:10] <thomasvs> taaz: well, it looked quite ok.  but it's not something I want to get familiar with any time soon.
[21:11] <thomasvs> taaz: still happy learning all the bits of python I don't yet know
[21:11] <taaz> any idea why jdahlin wrote logging.py rather than just using the standard logging module?
[21:11] <thomasvs> no, no idea
[21:11] <thomasvs> feel free to ask :)
[21:12] <taaz> i will.  was just catching up reading cvs commit logs
[21:12] <aeyakovenko> thomasvs: i wasnt sure if gst_init would complain about the arguments that are just for my program specificaly
[21:15] <taaz> thomasvs: your latest gst-editor/ChangeLog commit took out the previous commit text
[21:15] Action: taaz noticing minor details...
[21:16] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[21:17] <aeyakovenko> does it matter what order things are added to a pipeline?
[21:19] <Company> thomasvs: what problem with audioonvert and vorbisdec?
[21:19] <ds-work> aeyakovenko: theoretically, no
[21:19] <taaz> i could swear that someone once converted signal -'s to _'s.. hmm. ;)  -'s are cooler imho.
[21:20] <Company> taaz: glib converts them to - internally
[21:20] wheels ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[21:21] <thomasvs> taaz: I asked owen for the definitive answer
[21:21] <thomasvs> taaz: _ give problems with ::notify
[21:21] <thomasvs> taaz: and glib internally treats them the same otherwise
[21:21] <thomasvs> taaz: so owen is moving them to -
[21:21] <aeyakovenko> if i am modifying a pipeline does it have to be in the NULL state?
[21:21] <thomasvs> so I guess we might as well follow
[21:21] <thomasvs> Company: the one on the mailing list
[21:21] <thomasvs> ds-work: my perlfu is lost, could you add a check to gst-lint for - over _ in signal names ?
[21:23] <ds-work> ok
[21:24] wheels ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[21:25] <thomasvs> ds-work: maybe also for g_signal_connect, btw
[21:26] <Company> oh, that looks like wingo borked something when changing audioconvert to do f2i
[21:26] <thomasvs> Company: crap
[21:26] <ds-work> er, why does audioconvert do float?
[21:26] <thomasvs> Company: well, I guess when the media test suite works well we can catch that sort of mistake
[21:27] <ds-work> that just makes caps negotiation a horrid nightmare
[21:27] <thomasvs> yeah
[21:27] <thomasvs> caps nego is a nightmare on a few of those links
[21:27] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[21:27] <thomasvs> I'm feeling we will need to punt on a few bugs we have, and add some hacks for now
[21:27] <thomasvs> I'm thinking of adding a release-device property on audiosinks for example
[21:28] <ds-work> thomasvs: your perl-foo is checked in
[21:28] <thomasvs> ds-work: thanks
[21:28] <thomasvs> ds-work: maybe we should get newbies to fix gst-lint warnings, there are quite a few of them.
[21:29] <Company> hm
[21:29] <ds-work> thomasvs: that was the goal.  I've disabled all but the important ones
[21:29] <Company> i hate what wingo has done with audioconvert
[21:29] <ds-work> and "important" isn't really always important
[21:30] <Company> audioconvert shouldn't do the reframing for buffer-frames
[21:30] <ds-work> ugh, no
[21:30] <taaz> thomasvs: were there plans to do mass reindents before/after 0.8 is out?
[21:30] mxpxpod ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[21:30] <thomasvs> taaz: yeah, I'm still planning to do that
[21:31] <thomasvs> taaz: though I'm getting a little panicky because of stuff still on my todolist and about the few very highprofile bugs we still have :(
[21:31] <ds-work> a high-profile bugs list would motivate me to fix them
[21:32] <taaz> i'm panicky about not even have finished 0.7 debs yet.
[21:32] <thomasvs> ds-work: yeah, working on that
[21:32] <thomasvs> taaz: you better get started.  I spent all week trying to work out all the packaging problems for 0.7
[21:32] <thomasvs> taaz: I think I'm finally there, but I wouldn't want to do it again
[21:32] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[21:34] <thomasvs> somebody please enlighten me why gcc doesn't just error out when it could not find an include
[21:34] <thomasvs> it is baffling to me why it tries to continue and buries the real problem with useless error messages
[21:36] <ds-work> gcc tries to continue after all errors
[21:36] <Company> because that would cause it to error out if you left an #include <foo> ;)
[21:36] Uraeus ([email protected]) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[21:36] <thomasvs> eh ?
[21:36] <Company> a wrong include isn't worse than any other error
[21:37] <thomasvs> ok, then I don't see why it wants to continue after any error :)
[21:37] <ds-work> so you can fix multiple errors per compile cycle
[21:37] <Company> because it might allow you to fix more than one error at once
[21:37] <thomasvs> yeah yeah :)
[21:37] <thomasvs> grrr :)
[21:38] <Company> ds-work speaks a better english than me :/
[21:38] <ds-work> you could easily write a gcc wrapper that only prints the first 10 lines of output or so
[21:39] <ds-work> Company sprecht besser deutsch als ich :/
[21:43] <Company> you don't chat in german all day
[21:45] <ds-work> vielleicht ich solle
[21:45] <ds-work> or we could all switch to dutch
[21:46] <ds-work> it seemed to be going that way when I first was around
[21:47] <Company> the languages i'd like to learn are spanish and japanese or chinese
[21:48] Uraeus ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[21:49] <Company> wingo is evil
[21:49] Zeenix ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[21:49] <Uraeus> hmm, I just updated gst-plugins and Rhythmbox stopped working
[21:49] <Uraeus> I now get: (rhythmbox:24135): GStreamer-CRITICAL **: Factory for `id3tag' has no type
[21:49] <Uraeus> Segmentation fault
[21:49] <Zeenix> hi
[21:50] <Uraeus> hi Zeenix
[21:50] <Zeenix> Uraeus: I am about to be kicked from another discussion group :)
[21:51] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[21:51] <Uraeus> nm, just a missing gst-register
[21:51] <Company> wingo's code is too tightly packed for me ;)
[21:53] <thomasvs> Uraeus: ok, so you can test my fedora packages soon
[21:53] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[21:54] ChrisHJW ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[21:56] wheels ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[21:56] ibsteveog ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[21:56] psyduck ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[21:56] smoke ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[21:56] earthw0rm ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[21:56] rvalles ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[21:56] wheels ([email protected]) returned to #gstreamer.
[21:56] ibsteveog ([email protected]) returned to #gstreamer.
[21:56] psyduck ([email protected]) returned to #gstreamer.
[21:56] earthw0rm ([email protected]) returned to #gstreamer.
[21:56] smoke ([email protected]) returned to #gstreamer.
[21:56] rvalles ([email protected]) returned to #gstreamer.
[22:00] kmaraas ([email protected]) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[22:00] <Company> hm
[22:01] <Company> i have a binary dump of gint32
[22:01] kmaraas ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[22:01] <Company> i want a textfile with those numbers
[22:01] <Company> how?
[22:01] <ds-work> write a small proggy
[22:01] <Company> language?
[22:02] <ds-work> C
[22:02] <ds-work> one could write a single line of perl to do it, but why?
[22:07] <Company> i only know a little bit of perl
[22:07] <Company> it's enough to replace __attribute__ ((packed)) but that's it ;)
[22:09] smoke ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[22:09] psyduck ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[22:09] ibsteveog ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[22:09] wheels ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[22:09] earthw0rm ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[22:09] rvalles ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[22:11] wheels ([email protected]) returned to #gstreamer.
[22:11] ibsteveog ([email protected]) returned to #gstreamer.
[22:11] psyduck ([email protected]) returned to #gstreamer.
[22:11] earthw0rm ([email protected]) returned to #gstreamer.
[22:11] smoke ([email protected]) returned to #gstreamer.
[22:11] rvalles ([email protected]) returned to #gstreamer.
[22:12] <Company> float audio is in the range [-1, 1] or [0,1] ?
[22:13] markey ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[22:13] markey ([email protected]) returned to #gstreamer.
[22:15] ibsteveog ([email protected]) left irc: "quitting"
[22:18] <ds-work> Company: -1,1
[22:19] <ds-work> that's "line level", which corresponds to -32767,32767 for int
[22:19] <ds-work> obviously, float can go above line level
[22:19] thomasvs ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[22:23] arana ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[22:33] thomasvs ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[22:33] aeyakovenko ([email protected]) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[22:33] sub_pop ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[22:35] <Uraeus> thomasvs: gnome-media fails to compile with: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lgstinterfaces-0.7
[22:35] <Uraeus> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[22:35] <Company> woah shit
[22:35] <Company> ds-work: following problem
[22:35] <Company> ds-work: float to int32 conversion
[22:36] <ds-work> I'm in favor of removing float support from audioconvert
[22:36] <ds-work> it's a nice idea, but too complicated for right now
[22:36] <Company> ds-work: CLAMP (float, -1.0, 1.0) * MAXINT + 0.5
[22:36] <Company> that's the correct int value
[22:36] <ds-work> floor(&)
[22:37] <Company> yeah
[22:37] sublett ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[22:37] <Company> nope
[22:37] <Company> doesn't work for float == 1.0
[22:37] <Company> well, ok, it does
[22:37] <Company> but not with lrintf
[22:38] <ds-work> no reason to use f functions
[22:38] <Company> hm, lrintf rounds
[22:38] <ds-work> use rint(CLAMP()*MAXINT) or floor(...+0.5)
[22:39] <ds-work> floor is C89
[22:39] <ds-work> besides, it should use liboil anyway :)
[22:39] <Company> i know
[22:39] sublett ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)
[22:39] <Company> could you have a look at gst-plugins/gst-libs/gst/floatcast/floatcast.h
[22:39] <Company> ?
[22:40] <Company> and tell me that that header is totally stupid?
[22:40] <Company> at least the gst_cast_* part?
[22:40] <ds-work> heh
[22:40] Action: ds-work pasted that into epiphany
[22:41] spyder482 ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 113 (No route to host)
[22:41] <ds-work> wow, that's gross
[22:41] <ds-work> I'm constantly amazed by the crap in gstreamer
[22:42] <thomasvs> me too
[22:42] <Company> especially because HAVE_LRINTF is _never_ defined when math.h isn't included :o
[22:42] Action: ds-work comments that GFLOAT_SWAP_LE_BE() will fail in many common circumstances
[22:42] <thomasvs> there is stuff that you never find until you try to actually use it
[22:43] <ds-work> and it pulls in config.h
[22:43] <ds-work> can we just remove that header completely?
[22:43] <taaz> if you guys are finding simple things that fail, please add them to a test suite so once they are fixed they stay so
[22:44] <thomasvs> taaz: yeah :/
[22:44] sublett ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[22:44] <thomasvs> taaz: you always need to when you have the least time :/
[22:44] <taaz> well, it's a nice theory at least ;)
[22:44] <thomasvs> I know :)
[22:44] <taaz> in the long run it pays off, again, in theory
[22:45] <ds-work> well 'double swap_be_le(double)' is just not able to work
[22:46] kwm ([email protected]) left irc: "Leaving"
[22:48] arana ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[22:49] <Company> why not?
[22:49] <Company> it should be possible to shuffle the bits so that works, no?
[22:52] mathrick ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[22:53] psyduck ([email protected]) left irc: "Leaving"
[22:56] <Company> so how do i do this correctly?
[22:57] <Company> especially considering that lrintf (MAXINT_AS_FLOAT) == -MAXINT
[23:02] <ds-work> when you load a bit pattern that isn't a good floating point number, it gets corrected
[23:04] <Company> booo
[23:05] <ds-work> so for that code, it will depend on whether the compiler is smart enough to optimize away the load, whether the ABI allows that, etc.
[23:05] <ds-work> in other words, it will work on i386, but nothing else
[23:08] <Company> yeah, great
[23:08] <Company> i'll do (gint32) CLAMP ((gint64) x, MININT, MAXINT) for now
[23:09] Nick change: kh_zZz -> khalek
[23:11] Uraeus ([email protected]) left irc: "Client exiting"
[23:13] spyder482 ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[23:14] ChriHJW ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[23:17] wtay ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[23:17] Nick change: wtay -> wtay-zZz
[23:30] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) left irc: Connection timed out
[23:31] ChrisHJW ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[23:38] NFusi0n ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[23:41] hyriand ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[23:41] irc ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[23:41] <irc> hello
[23:42] <mathrick> hi irc, why nick change?
[23:44] <irc> i cant seem to get my pipeline to pull any data from a fdsrc
[23:46] earthw0rm ([email protected]) left irc: ""I allege that SCO is full of it." - Linus Torvalds"
[23:49] grub_booter ([email protected]) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[23:50] thaytoo ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[00:00] --- Fri Mar  5 2004
[00:08] markey ([email protected]) left irc: "nity"
[00:23] Nick change: mathrick -> mathrick|sleep
[00:26] ChriHJW ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[00:31] <Company> thomasvs: vorbis/audioconvert is fixed
[00:31] Company ([email protected]) left irc: Remote closed the connection
[00:41] harshy ([email protected]) left irc: "I quit for now"
[00:49] sublett ([email protected]) left irc: "I like food, food is good!"
[01:08] sub_pop ([email protected]) left irc: "Client exiting"
[01:17] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[01:17] sub_pop ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[01:18] Nick change: NFusi0n -> NFusi0n|out
[01:21] iain ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[01:22] <iain> is there a reason why gst-launch filesrc location=file.mp3 ! alsasink "works"?
[01:26] Zeenix ([email protected]) left irc: "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of 
[01:29] NFusi0n|out ([email protected]) left irc: "Lost terminal"
[01:37] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)
[01:40] ChrisHJW_log ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[01:40] <thaytoo> iain: huh? because it isn't broken? :)
[01:41] <thaytoo> It plays something sensible?
[01:41] <iain> no, it plays static
[01:41] <thaytoo> ahr
[01:41] <iain> but in my mind filesrc shouldn't be able to connect to alsasink
[01:41] <thaytoo> so it plays because filesrc doesn't know the type at all
[01:41] <thaytoo> it's happy to connect to anything
[01:42] <thaytoo> iain: it should if the file contains raw audio samples, for example
[01:42] <iain> thaytoo: hmm, true, drat
[01:49] thomasvs ([email protected]) left irc: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)
[01:53] BBB ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[02:02] casaxno ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[02:26] Shoragan ([email protected]) left irc: "Leaving"
[02:29] Nick change: khalek -> kh_out
[02:31] walters ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[02:35] camh ([email protected]) left irc: Operation timed out
[02:36] camh ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[02:36] somex1 ([email protected]) joined #gstreamer.
[02:46] <casaxno> hi guys
[02:47] <casaxno> nobody there?
[02:49] <ds-work> no
[02:49] <casaxno> lol
[02:50] <casaxno> still troubles with ffmpeg
[02:51] <BBB> ds-work: about the videotestsrc/ffcolorspace/videoscale/ximagesink thing: isn't videoscale supposed to passthrough by default?
[02:51] <BBB> I thought that was a convention
[02:53] <ds-work> it is doing passthrough
[02:53] <casaxno> i got problems with i386/cputest.c
[02:54] <walters> BBB: did you get a chance to double-check your gconf installation?
[02:54] iain ([email protected]) left irc: "leaving"
[02:54] <BBB> not yet... I'm rebuilding CVS right now, will do rhythmbox as part of that
[02:55] <walters> BBB: k
[02:55] <BBB> ds-work: but the test pipeline fails
[02:55] <ds-work> BBB: which element forces the format to be anything other than 16x16?
[02:55] <BBB> ds-work: videotestsrc has a fixate function that defaults to 384x288. ffcolorspace/videoscale/ximagesink don't have a fixate function
[02:55] <BBB> that means it should run at 384x288
[02:55] <BBB> it doesn't
[02:56] walters ([email protected]) left irc: "out"
[02:56] <BBB> also, in the case of a movie file, the movie is XxY, not 16x16
[02:56] <ds-work> no, it means that it _might_ fixate to that
[02:56] spyder482 ([email protected]) left irc: "Leaving"
[02:56] <BBB> still, if you replace 'videotestsrc' with 'filesrc ! ... blabla', it plays at 16x16
[02:56] <BBB> that's a bug!
[02:56] <BBB> both are a bug, actually
[02:56] <BBB> (imo)
[02:56] <ds-work> no it doesn't
[02:56] <BBB> it does here
[02:56] <ds-work> play a file, and it plays at the correct size
[02:57] <BBB> it doesn't play at the video size
[02:57] <BBB> it plays at one of the fixated sizes
[02:57] <ds-work> gst-launch-0.7 ./userfriendly.swf ! swfdec .video_00 ! ffcolorspace ! videoscale ! ximagesink
[02:57] <ds-work> works
[02:58] <ds-work> gst-launch-0.7 ./userfriendly.swf ! swfdec .video_00 ! videoscale ! ffcolorspace ! ximagesink
[02:58] <ds-work> works
[02:58] <BBB> ximagesink has a 320x240 fixate function, right?
[02:58] <ds-work> yes
[02:58] <BBB> a movie of 768x576 plays at 320x240 here
[02:58] <BBB> videotestsrc plays at 16x16
[02:58] <BBB> those are bugs, imo
[02:59] <BBB> gst-player uses a similar pipeline and plays *all* movies at 16x16 here
[02:59] <ds-work> it's not a bug in any of those plugins
[02:59] <BBB> it might be expected behaviour, but it's still a bug
[02:59] <ds-work> it's a bug in gst-player
[02:59] <BBB> because it doesn't fixate?
[02:59] <BBB> come on... that's unreasonable
[02:59] <BBB> it's a bug


-------------------------------------------------------
This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IBM Linux Tutorials
Free Linux tutorial presented by Daniel Robbins, President and CEO of
GenToo technologies. Learn everything from fundamentals to system
administration.http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=1470&alloc_id=3638&op=click