IRC Logs

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[03:25] <Company> lol
[03:25] smoke ([email protected]) got netsplit.
[03:25] <Company> tv about gfted kids
[03:26] <Company> they're really cool
[03:28] <Parn> I believe some child are born gifted and all
[03:28] <Company> 3 years old, favourite past time: playing scrabble
[03:28] <Parn> but what the determining shit is if when they're child, they're exposed to the needed stimulus
[03:29] <Company> yeah
[03:29] <Parn> I got into computers and started to code at the young age of 7
[03:29] <Parn> when the other kids were playing tic-tac-toe in comparision
[03:29] <Parn> so there's why I'm "not as dumb" as the masses nowadays, I believe.
[03:30] <Company> probably
[03:30] Action: wheels is dubious.
[03:30] <Parn> no, not really
[03:30] <Parn> maybe I was a little gifted also, so I tended to this
[03:30] <Company> i needed until i was 17 until i figured out what you can use a high iq for: understanding girls
[03:30] <wheels> 4nd t4tz y my 50c14l sk1lz 4r3 s00 l33t t00!
[03:31] smoke ([email protected]) got lost in the net-split.
[03:31] <Parn> after all, I did the math stuff in the kittengarden in seconds, and spent a lot of time spacing out thinking on my stuff
[03:31] <Company> though i scared themoff when i told them why they do things ;)
[03:31] <Parn> when the other kids took hours to do the sums and the substractions
[03:31] <Company> wheels: there's actually a reason why gifted kids suck socially
[03:31] Action: wheels notes that there was this thing before computers that also helped -- they were called "books".  :-)
[03:32] <Parn> so the teachers even got me into the psycohelp shit
[03:32] <wheels> Company: Sure, I know the drill well.
[03:32] <Parn> I had the famous thing described in that weird www.reciprocality.org site
[03:33] <wheels> Company: But I don't think computers make one gifted; they're simply an outlet for already smart kids -- and it's not like they're alone in that...
[03:33] <Company> wheels: agreed
[03:33] Action: Company has an official "you're gifted" certificate
[03:34] <Parn> still, still, I guess most kids were like me but just tried "to be good kids" by then, and after that, their capabilities weren't put to good use. :(
[03:34] <Parn> Company: what are those? mensa's?
[03:34] <Company> Parn: yeah, a mensa sponsored intelligence test
[03:34] <wheels> Heh -- Mensa -- the world society of underacheivers.  :-)
[03:34] <Parn> Company: Im a perfect candidate for mensa, according to their online tests, but I'm not quite interested in their stuff.
[03:34] <Company> mensa sucks
[03:35] <wheels> Company: Have you ever been to one of the meetings?  They're a bit depressing.  :-)
[03:35] <Company> i went to some of their meetings and they were busy telling themselves how good they are at solving those tests
[03:35] <Company> but they did a 5 hour iq test at which i participated
[03:35] <Parn> Company: I don't know if it sucks a little or a lot, but I'm not interested on "joining a elite of self-conscious-to-be-better-than-average guys"
[03:35] <Company> because the guy with the best notes in our class wanted to mess with me
[03:35] <Parn> Company: :)
[03:35] <wheels> Company: And often as a substitute for having done anything else with their lives.  ;-)
[03:36] <Company> i beat him 135:117 :D
[03:36] <Parn> Company: and you teached him, right?
[03:36] <Parn> Company: lol
[03:36] <Parn> Company: :)
[03:36] <Company> especially nice was that my girlfriewnd (which he considered dumb) scored 112
[03:36] <wheels> Parn: Yeah, you seem to have completely escaped that culture of elitism.  ;-)
[03:36] <Parn> Company: I got a score as high as 160-something in an online one
[03:37] <Parn> Company: but it was 1h or so, I wouldn't find it too trusty.
[03:37] <Company> online tests are crappy
[03:37] <jdahlin_> FWIW I've scored 142 in a test
[03:37] <Parn> Company: some of them, are really crappy
[03:37] Action: jdahlin_ is happy to beat Company
[03:37] Nick change: jdahlin_ -> jdahlin
[03:37] <jdahlin> :-)
[03:37] <Parn> jdahlin_: it's just a test :P.
[03:37] <Company> jdahlin: what test? :p
[03:38] <jdahlin> IQ-test
[03:38] <jdahlin> but who cares about that anyway
[03:38] <Parn> Company: this one was done by some friends of mine, and the smartguy got 117, the others less than 105.
[03:38] <jdahlin> it's just a measure on how good you are at solving a certain kind of tests
[03:38] <wheels> jdahlin: There are actually a lot of versions of those and the scores really aren't transferable between tests.
[03:39] <jdahlin> wheels: and things probably change in 12 years
[03:39] <wheels> jdahlin: I've taken several of them and most of the time my scores were in a pretty small range, but the tests were wildly different.
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[03:40] <Parn> Company: so it does make some sense, because I know I'm smarter than average, and I know my results from other tests like mensa online's are good
[03:41] <Company> i consider people real intelligent if they solved RL
[03:41] <wheels> Parn: Uhm, mensa's online test is just a mock-up...
[03:41] <jdahlin> RL?
[03:41] <Company> real life
[03:41] <Parn> yeah
[03:41] <Company> most gifted kids get problems in real life and start to become depressive and so on
[03:41] <Parn> real problem solving
[03:41] <Parn> but I also think inteligence is built from problem solving
[03:41] <jdahlin> not solving rubiks cube in under one minute then? :)
[03:41] <Company> if they are happy in their real lifes and don't need a fantasy world, then they're the real good ones
[03:42] <Company> i always hated rubiks cube
[03:42] <Parn> there's my theory of guys who programmed a lot as kids
[03:42] <jdahlin> You should not talking about "fantasy worlds" on irc
[03:42] <Parn> the ones I know that did that, are smart, all of them.
[03:42] <Company> rubiks cube was a solved problem so i don't need to solve it again
[03:42] <Parn> Company: me also
[03:43] <Parn> Company: you can solve it real quick bringing it to pieces and reassembling it
[03:43] <jdahlin> it's the speed thing too
[03:43] <Company> Parn: i know people that programmed as kids that i wouldn't consider smart
[03:43] <wheels> Parn: Well, "inteligence" is a very overloaded word.  Programming is an analytical skill to be sure, but it's not independantly enough to qualify someone as "inteligent"...
[03:44] <Company> jdahlin: i raed the mathematical proof and after that came to the conclusion that being fast at rubiks cube is like being fast at remembering telephone numbers ;)
[03:44] <jdahlin> Company: not far from it at least
[03:44] <Parn> Company: they did that in their free time, as much as nearly every day during a lot of frequent, long periods of days?
[03:44] <Parn> Company: ;)
[03:45] <jdahlin> the police came over to our apartment this night
[03:45] <Parn> wheels: for me, inteligence is mainly the ability to, given any information, be able to comprehend it then use it to solve real world problems
[03:45] <jdahlin> apparently we played music too loud and one of the neighbours called the police
[03:45] <Parn> wheels: and to do it well and quickly.
[03:45] <jdahlin> but they didn't bother telling us to lower the volume or anything first
[03:45] Action: jdahlin shrugs
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[03:46] <Parn> jdahlin: yay
[03:46] <wheels> Parn: Well, but that's a definition -- that's not the definition...
[03:46] <jdahlin> Parn: are you in Spain?
[03:46] <Parn> jdahlin: stupid neighbours :(
[03:46] <Parn> jdahlin: yep
[03:46] <jdahlin> Where?
[03:47] Action: jdahlin is in Barcelona
[03:47] <taaz> jdahlin: so i see you are making releases now?
[03:47] <Parn> jdahlin: me also.
[03:48] <jdahlin> taaz: yes
[03:48] <taaz> with broken rel notes links on the front website page...
[03:48] <ds-work> I had an officer come to my door one time at 3 am (I was awake), and pounded on the door to tell us to turn the music down.  Before he could say anything, I asked him to be quite because my housemates had been asleep for 4 hours
[03:48] <jdahlin> oh :-)
[03:48] <jdahlin> Parn: cool
[03:48] <Parn> jdahlin: not barcelona but a city near, through.
[03:48] <Parn> jdahlin: are you _in_ here or from here?
[03:48] <ds-work> turns out the lady down the street was crazy and heard music in her head at night
[03:48] <jdahlin> Parn: I'm not from here, I'm from Sweden
[03:48] <ds-work> her daughter came by a few weeks later and apologized
[03:48] <Company> californians.... ;)
[03:49] <Parn> jdahlin: yay... and how come you came? :)
[03:49] <jdahlin> Parn: got a job
[03:49] <Parn> jdahlin: so you're living here, now.
[03:49] <jdahlin> Yap
[03:50] <Parn> jdahlin: that's quite nice
[03:50] <jdahlin> I like it here too
[03:51] <Parn> jdahlin: we could meet someday... into a local free software linux group meeting (like monthly~ www.badopi.org ones) for example would rule.
[03:51] <Parn> jdahlin: still, don't expect much of my self-taught english in voice conversation
[03:52] <jdahlin> Parn: as in my self-taught spanish
[03:52] <Parn> jdahlin: I horribly lack experience in english-over-voicewaves thingy.
[03:52] <jdahlin> Parn: I know how it is
[03:52] <Company> pfff
[03:52] <jdahlin> I basically learned english property on IRC
[03:52] <Company> speaking english is easier than people think
[03:52] <jdahlin> propertly!
[03:52] <jdahlin> properly!
[03:52] Action: jdahlin blames alcohol
[03:52] <Company> you just meet them and everybody speaks in their dialect
[03:53] <Company> the gstreamer meetings are so funny
[03:53] <jdahlin> yeah, it's not a big deal
[03:53] <Company> wrt languages
[03:53] <Parn> jdahlin: I can watch movies without subtitles with some pausing and rewinding (do it often) but that's not enough, and I'm not speaking to the screen when watching one ;)
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[03:53] <wheels> Company: It's really funny comparing imagined accents to real ones though.  :-)
[03:53] <Parn> jdahlin: hey, me also!
[03:53] <jdahlin> Parn: it's easier to speak and understand when you talk to people than watching movies
[03:53] <Parn> jdahlin: I got into it before, by using amiga stuff, reading amiga magazines in english, etc
[03:54] <Parn> jdahlin: before we got this, that was 4 years ago.
[03:54] <Company> dolphy speaks Frenglish, BBB speaks hollenglish, ds speaks american and i don't wana know what i speak ;)
[03:54] <wheels> Company: I remember thinking -- wow -- KDE has a German accent.  :-)
[03:54] <jdahlin> I speak swenglish, thomas speak belgiumish etc
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[03:54] <Parn> jdahlin: I guess so, but I've done it not much :)
[03:54] <jdahlin> dolphy have a good accent though
[03:54] <wheels> jdahlin: Flemglish?  :-)
[03:54] <jdahlin> wheels: right!
[03:55] <Parn> jdahlin: still... have you ever came to a free software drink beer and talk meeting in barcelona?
[03:55] <jdahlin> Parn: nope, I've only been here for 2 months
[03:55] <Parn> jdahlin: do you have a nice network of people here, or not yet? :)
[03:55] <jdahlin> let's say it's still quite small :-)
[03:56] <jdahlin> due to my interest in computers I tend to write instead of socalizing
[03:56] <Parn> jdahlin: how small is small? :)
[03:56] <jdahlin> Parn: 10-15 people
[03:57] <Parn> jdahlin: that's quite small! :P
[03:57] <Parn> jdahlin: :)
[03:58] Action: jdahlin nods
[03:58] <Parn> jdahlin: we should take you to a lunchtime-drinktime-dinnertime-discopartycrazynesstime style free software world people all-day meeting
[03:58] <jdahlin> Parn: sure, just tell me :)
[03:58] <Parn> jdahlin: we have them often in Barcelona, mostly in a monthly basis :)
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[03:59] <Parn> jdahlin: come to www.badopi.org, that's the most proficient group here
[03:59] <jdahlin> maybe I can trick some other people to join
[03:59] <Parn> jdahlin: and get into the maillists, etc
[03:59] <Parn> jdahlin: all meetings are coordinated here
[03:59] <Parn> jdahlin: I don't go often but I'll be sure to go the day you decide to come to one.
[03:59] <Parn> jdahlin: :-)
[04:00] <jdahlin> Parn: oki
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[04:02] <Parn> jdahlin: and we'll be sure to give you a proper amount of anal love
[04:02] <Parn> jdahlin: :D
[04:02] <jdahlin> !
[04:03] Action: jdahlin stays home
[04:03] Action: wheels stays in Germany.  :-)
[04:03] Action: Company too
[04:03] <jdahlin> C-u 800 C-x C-e is such a nice command
[04:03] <jdahlin> C-u 800 C-x e
[04:04] <Company> it is?
[04:04] <jdahlin> You don't use emacs, do you>?
[04:04] <Company> no
[04:04] <wheels> jdahlin: It's ok -- there's hope yet.
[04:05] <Company> i use gst-launch and my custom elements
[04:05] <jdahlin> It repeats the last macro 800 times
[04:05] <Company> i think that's shorter with vi ;)
[04:06] <jdahlin> probably :rm#1s,800 or something
[04:07] <jdahlin> anyway, off to bed
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[04:07] <Company> i love ./config.stauts --recheck
[04:07] <Company> ./config.status --recheck
[04:07] <Parn> 04:04:28  * jdahlin stays home
[04:07] <Parn> lol
[04:07] <Parn> :)
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[05:08] Action: ds-work hugs cicl
[05:10] <Company> heh
[05:11] <Company> someone fixes the same stuff that i'm fixing
[05:11] <ds-work> who, me?
[05:11] <Company> yup
[05:11] <Company> i just fixed gstgdkanimation.h not disted
[05:13] Action: ds-work claims the easy bugs
[05:16] #gstreamer: mode change '+o ds' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[05:17] #gstreamer: mode change '+o ds-work' by ChanServ!ChanServ@services.
[05:17] Topic changed on #gstreamer by [email protected]: if you're trying to debug gst-launch and fail, try gdb gst-launch-0.8 | Media playback tracker bug: #138435 | more april foolery: #138831 (a palindrome, even) | someone release gst-monkeysaudio, there's no release compatible with 0.8.0
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[05:21] Action: Company is tempted to change the summary of #138831 to "GStreamer rocks da house"
[05:21] <ds-work> if it get's reopened...
[05:21] <ds-work> or "GStreamer users are sissies"
[05:22] <Company> i need bugzilla to automatically seet the target milestone when closing bugs
[05:23] <ds-work> we need the default milestone to be 0.8.x
[05:23] <ds-work> and then when a release comes around, just change all 0.8.x to 0.8.1
[05:23] <Company> fine with me, too
[05:23] <ds-work> actually, that would work with HEAD, too
[05:23] <ds-work> and given that the current default milestone is HEAD...
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[05:28] <Company> #138705 is cute
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[06:19] Action: Company => bed
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[06:41] <Parn> Company: sleep well ;)
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[09:21] <LeRoutier> good morning ppl
[09:21] <LeRoutier> any rhythmbox dude here ?
[09:22] <LeRoutier> iradio-initial.pls not dist..ed ?
[09:23] <LeRoutier> (in 0.7.2)
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[10:32] <synap> Boo!
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[10:59] <LeRoutier> anyone know if capturing video from DV/FireWire/IEEE1394 already work in gst-recorder ? (anyone used it ?)
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[11:05] <LeRoutier> bbl
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[14:45] <wingo> yo.
[14:48] <wingo> thomasvs: there?
[14:48] <wingo> thomasvs: i want to add a buffer-frames-convert plugin, does bufferframesconvert sound fine for the dir name?
[14:48] <wingo> kindof long ;)
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[15:12] <thomasvs> wingo: sounds long yeah - is there really no better name for it ?
[15:12] <thomasvs> what are you going to name the actual plugin ?
[15:14] <wingo> buffer-frames-convert will be the factory name
[15:17] <wingo> don't blame me, i had the functionality in audioconvert a while ago but it was removed ;)
[15:18] <thomasvs> you know what, I work for an evil company anyway, so you shouldn't even ask for my opinion :)
[15:18] <thomasvs> but you might want to think if lumping the code file and the object inside the audioconvert plugin without being part of the actual element
[15:19] <jdahlin> bufferconvert?
[15:19] <wingo> that's cool -- i don't care, myself
[15:19] <wingo> but it doesn't convert buffers, it converts between different buffer-frames values for float audio
[15:20] <wingo> otherwise you could call vorbisdec bufferconvert ;)
[15:20] <wingo> ok, i'll add to audioconvert
[15:20] <wingo> jdahlin: i'm committing my sort-the-opt-runqueue patch
[15:20] <jdahlin> wingo: cool, what will it fix?
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[15:22] <wingo> choosing the proper entry point in dynamic pipelines (so the pipe gets run in pull-from-the-end mode rather than push-from-somewhere-and-see-what-happens
[15:22] <wingo> )
[15:23] <jdahlin> ah
[15:23] Action: jdahlin hopes it won't break anything
[15:23] <wingo> me too
[15:24] <wingo> the sorting algorithm requires that the group links are properly set up, so it might uncover other bugs -- but i think not...
[15:24] <wingo> anyway, it's in now.
[15:24] <thomasvs> ok, so no new release for the next month then.
[15:24] Action: teuf bets it will break stuff
[15:24] <bitshifter> ugh
[15:25] <jdahlin> so, we better test it carefully and revert/fix if something breaks
[15:25] Action: jdahlin rebuilds to test totem
[15:25] Action: teuf will test rhythmbox
[15:26] <Company> does identity ! fakesink fakesrc ! identity0. run?
[15:26] <Company> good morning angels btw
[15:28] <wingo> howdy Company
[15:31] <thomasvs> jdahlin: does your card work with directfb ?
[15:31] <Company> wingo: gst-launch identity ! fakesink fakesrc ! identity0.
[15:31] <Company> wingo: still segfaults
[15:31] <wingo> with opt?
[15:32] <Company> wingo: yeah
[15:32] <jdahlin> thomasvs: never tried
[15:33] <wingo> Company: I'll look at it later
[15:33] <jdahlin> thomasvs: it's a radeon mobility m7 (7500)
[15:35] <jdahlin> wingo: seems to work fine
[15:35] <jdahlin> avi plays fine
[15:36] <jdahlin> ac3 very slow, a few fps
[15:36] <jdahlin> mpeg 1fps
[15:37] <wingo> is that new?
[15:37] <jdahlin> it's been like that for a while
[15:38] <wingo> is it leaking memory?
[15:39] <jdahlin> I don't know
[15:39] <jdahlin> I can reproduce ac3 with basicgthread too
[15:39] <jdahlin> Company: care to fix it? :)
[15:41] <jdahlin> oh, maybe it's because I don't have the ac52 build :)
[15:42] <teuf> rhythmbox seems fine
[15:42] <Company> teuf: tested with alsa and oss?
[15:43] <teuf> only oss
[15:43] <Company> jdahlin: nope, i'm only hacking on entry
[15:43] <Company> jdahlin: another thing:_ would it be possible to add benchmarks to the media testsuite?
[15:44] <Company> jdahlin: like time that some check runs or memory it needs?
[15:46] <jdahlin> Company: sure, it'll be quite easy
[15:46] <jdahlin> Company: but I'm not sure how memory should be measured
[15:47] <Company> jdahlin: me neither, but maybe someone else has an idea
[15:47] <Company> jdahlin: the interesting part is getting a graph that displays those results over time, so people can watch their successes in speeding up / reducing memory footprint
[15:48] <jdahlin> Company: Yes, but I think it's more important to make sure that all plugins works right now
[15:48] <jdahlin> and more importantly, that it stays like that
[15:48] <jdahlin> so we don't need to check rhythmbox and totem if wingo changes opt
[15:48] <jdahlin> he'll recieve a notication saying your latest checkin broke foo and bar
[15:49] <Company> sure, that's more important
[15:49] <Company> though memleaks are important, too, ask teuf and his importing madness ;)
[15:50] <teuf> yeah, leaking hundred of megabytes of mem isn't particularly nice ;)
[15:50] <bitshifter> those are not memleaks, those are floodings
[15:50] <Company> it only leaked 150 MB for 500 songs here, that's not that much :p
[15:51] <teuf> oh, thanks for the recent leak fix bitshifter :)
[15:51] <bitshifter> :)
[15:51] <teuf> Company: I've got 2000 songs and leak evolution is linear... :)
[15:51] <jdahlin> I'd love to linear leaks
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[15:52] <yoann__> hi
[15:52] <Company> teuf: you need more swap space :p
[15:53] <bitshifter> talking of plugins: #138168 + #138169 are trivial fixes for id3tag + matroskademux if anyone has a minute to spare
[15:53] <teuf> Company: I've got 2GB swap, are you willing to donate maybe 1GB of ddr memory though, I'm a bit short on ram ?  ;)
[15:54] <yoann__> Company: I upgraded to gstreamer 0-8, and gstreamer-properties can't test the default video sink even though they are installed... any idea ?
[15:54] <Company> bitshifter: i'll apply them
[15:54] <bitshifter> thanks
[15:56] <Company> yoann__: no idea, ask someone hacking on gstreamer-properties
[15:56] <Company> yoann__: oh, you probably did not upgrade gstreamer-properties, right?
[15:56] <Company> teuf: you don't need more ram for memleaks - memleaks belong in swap space ;)
[15:58] <yoann__> Company: well it's from gnome-media 2.6.0
[16:00] <Company> yoann__: ok, then it should work and you need to ask someone of the guys hacking on it :)
[16:06] <bitshifter> teuf: it looks like it leaks almost nothing if you set "mmapsize" to 0 on the filesrc element
[16:07] <teuf> bitshifter: that's easy enough to check :)
[16:07] Action: teuf will do some rb testing
[16:07] <bitshifter> you'll be swamped with error messages though
[16:07] <teuf> ah ?
[16:08] <bitshifter> GST_ELEMENT_ERROR(mmap failed)
[16:08] <bitshifter> basically
[16:08] <teuf> hmm, there's a huge comment explaining mmap refcounting issues
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[16:12] <bitshifter> hmm, I take back the 'almost nothing' - still a lot less than with mmap though, at least here
[16:16] Action: teuf tries decreasing default mmap size
[16:20] <teuf> changing mmap size from 4MB to 1MB doesn't make a difference
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[16:37] <wingo_> hey Rotty
[16:38] <Company> wee, debian even got direct rendering working
[16:40] Nick change: wingo_ -> wingo-away
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[16:59] Action: Company wonders if wheels has nopticed the new channel i'm in ;)
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[17:06] <Misirlou> Company: Dangerous!
[17:07] <wheels> Company: :-)
[17:07] <wheels> Company: Heh -- and I actually noticed just now after saying the Gst stuff.  :-)
[17:07] <wheels> Company: It's entertaining from time to time, though there's little real work done there.
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[17:13] <wheels> Company: Not sure that's the best way to introduce yourself.  ;-)
[17:14] <thomasvs> paste some stuff so we can follow :)
[17:14] <wheels> Company: And hey -- JuK is soo much more stable than RB.  ;-)
[17:14] <wheels> [17:13:27]  Company likes that all kde multimedia apps are in a broken state
[17:14] <Company> i like kdeers responses
[17:15] <wheels> Company: Well, "KDE'ers" is a bit strong of a term for the people that will respond to such.  ;-)
[17:15] <teuf> haha
[17:15] <teuf> <uga> Company: obviously you don't even know what gstreamer is, if you think it needs a frontend =)))
[17:15] Action: thomasvs joins #kde and pastes wheels' comments
[17:15] <Company> wheels: ok, you win
[17:19] <wheels> Just for reference uga -> not a MM developer and just working on some stuff in kdenonbeta, mETz wrote some Noatun plugins and thinks he's the king of the world for such.  :-)
[17:20] <Company> yeah, i think so
[17:20] <Company> otherwise it wouldn't be so much fun arguing with them
[17:20] <Company> if they had a clue i mean
[17:22] <wheels> SadEagle == very clueful guy, but he hates C.  :-)
[17:23] <Company> so there
[17:23] <wheels> Company: I must say -- comments like that don't really help the GStreamer stance in KDE.  ;-)
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[17:24] <Company> wheels: i know, but it's just too much fun ;)
[17:24] <wheels> Company: Well, but really -- that's the kind of stuff that will really screw up GStreamer's chances in KDE...
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[17:24] <wheels> Company: And I've been very careful politically for months...
[17:26] <Company> wheels: you guys are still big on flamage though
[17:26] <wheels> Company: Every OSS project is...
[17:26] <wheels> Company: Just the topics vary...
[17:26] <Company> wheels: "you shouldn't tell other projects what to care about." is pretty harsh ;)
[17:27] <wheels> Company: Well, honestly I do think your comment was pretty arrogant.
[17:27] <wheels> Company: And pissing off SadEagle really isn't going to help things since he is a core-devel...
[17:27] <Company> wheels: i don't think it's harsh
[17:27] <Company> wheels: it's the worst thing about KDE really
[17:28] <Company> well, it could certainly have been formulated nicer
[17:28] <wheels> Company: Yes, that's my point...
[17:28] <wheels> Company: Especially when people don't know you -- it comes off more as an insult than a commentary.
[17:28] <thomasvs> wheels: kick him off if it gets to ugly to make a statement :)
[17:28] <thomasvs> wheels: that'll upset the balance again
[17:28] <Company> wheels: this "omg, we link to sth not starting with k" is so dumb anyway
[17:29] <wheels> thomasvs: Well, I am the op in there.  :-)
[17:29] <thomasvs> Company: people are dumb all over, doesn't mean we should blow our chances
[17:30] <markey> Company: it's more about the API/coding style
[17:30] <Company> wheels: gstreamer links to KDE, gnome, xine and who knows what else anyway - gst-register is the biggest testbed for symbol collisions that i know
[17:30] <markey> Company: it's not the K nazi police
[17:30] <wheels> Company: And it's of course not homogenous -- many KDE people are interested in integration -- a lot aren't.
[17:30] <Company> markey: well, that'll be solved by a wrapper, which will surely be written
[17:31] <wheels> Company: It's already been there for ages...
[17:31] <markey> Company: ...which is writen
[17:31] <markey> just not up-to-date
[17:31] <wheels> Company: It's still at 0.6 but I'll be updating it next weekend...
[17:31] <Company> yeah, but that's just a player wrapper, isn't it?
[17:31] <markey> no
[17:31] <markey> full API
[17:31] <Company> oh
[17:31] Action: Company shuts up then
[17:31] <markey> quite nice
[17:31] <markey> tjansen did it
[17:32] <wheels> Company: But I've explained this as a cultural difference several times here.  For most of KDE development KDE is the platform; that's of course a different philosophy than GNOME but in some places it's worked very well, in others it's caused problems.
[17:33] <Company> wheels: you guys should start understanding that KDE can't be a platform - you can't just do everything yourself
[17:33] <wheels> Company: Well, but that really isn't for you to decide.
[17:34] <wheels> Company: And that is a cultural thing that you have to understand when dealing with the KDE community.
[17:34] <wheels> Company: Basically your comment was like showing up in Paris and talking about how you don't like how French everything is.  ;-)
[17:35] <thomasvs> wheels: hehe :)
[17:35] <markey> :)
[17:36] <Company> wheels: no, my comment was more like showing up in the US and wondering why i need to give them fingerprints and everything before they let me in
[17:36] <wheels> Company: Actually you don't, but that's another matter...
[17:36] <Company> wheels: not yet ;)
[17:36] <Company> wheels: i didn't complain about what you did, but how you interact with others
[17:37] <wheels> Company: But if your goal is getting into the US, starting complaining at customs probably isn't the way to go about it.  ;-)
[17:37] <Company> wheels: yeah, but i decided already not to go to the us anymore
[17:37] <Company> wheels: i'm not sure that's what kde wants
[17:37] Action: thomasvs doesn't understand people trying to change societies or communities they're not a part of
[17:37] <markey> Company: do you see a future in GNOME using C?
[17:38] <markey> Company: or rather: what do you see as the main future language
[17:38] <markey> I'd like to know
[17:38] <Company> markey: C for libs, definitely
[17:38] <markey> in general
[17:38] <Company> markey: I think apps higher up will switch to C#, Java or similar
[17:39] <Company> markey: so gnome-vfs, gst or gtk will still be C, while rhythmbox, nautilus and so on will be C#
[17:39] <markey> so you accept mono as GNOMEs platform?
[17:40] <Company> i accept whatever people decide to use
[17:40] <teuf> markey: we haven't finished trolling about it yet :)
[17:40] <Company> if someone writes a vfs layer in C++ with Qt, I use it
[17:40] <markey> it's tearing the community apart a bit, isn't it
[17:40] <markey> the mono question
[17:41] <Company> dunno, i think companies have more problems with it than people itself
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[17:41] <Company> i certainly don't have any problems with it
[17:41] <julo> hi
[17:41] <Company> i even compiled ocaml when an app needed it
[17:42] <Company> hi
[17:42] <markey> I pondered trying ocaml, too ;)
[17:42] <julo> I'm trying to install the latest gstreamer on Fedora Core 2, but I keep getting an error in yum (using gstreamer.net's repository). Is there a problem on the server ?
[17:43] <Company> markey: the usability of the endproduct concerns me, not how it's done
[17:43] <markey> ok
[17:43] <julo> The error is 401 unauthorized
[17:44] <Company> markey: i should add that one thing concerns me about how it's done: the license is important - it must be free
[17:45] <Company> (that's why i'll probably never run the gstreamer divx plugin for example)
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[17:45] <thomasvs> Company: so free license, but no concern for patents ?
[17:46] <Company> thomasvs: no
[17:46] <thomasvs> julo: did you follow the explanation on the site there ?
[17:46] <thomasvs> julo: also, I cna't guarantee fc2test2 will work, haven't tested yet myself.
[17:46] <Company> thomasvs: if i were concerned about patents, i wouldn't hack multimedia apps
[17:47] <Company> i consider patents broken
[17:48] <Company> and the gnome stance on patents is even more broken, but that's another thing
[17:50] <wheels> Company: (Sorry -- was away for a minute.)  To basically go back to the above -- it really had little with what you said, but that it was obviously not put in the appropriate context or phrased diplomatically.  That's the type of stuff that is just going to hurt integrative efforts within KDE.  In that case you started that one -- it wasn't like the KDE crowd came out to get you.  ;-)  People were talking -- mostly positively about GStrea
[17:50] <wheels> then one of the core-developers shows up and starts critisizing KDE -- or at least that's the way that it came across.
[17:50] <julo> thomasvs: yes i did. I added the right sources, and the preformed a "yum install gstreamer-universe". I'm doing it again right now so that I can give you the exact error message.
[17:51] <Company> wheels: i'm not going to treat KDE like a raw egg, especially considering what they were saying about get besides the "mostly positive"
[17:52] <Company> wheels: either you can take it or you can't, but if you can't be nice yourself
[17:52] <thomasvs> Company: kde is about 20 times more proven than KDE
[17:52] <thomasvs> Company: you argue from a belief that kde needs gst more than the other way around
[17:53] <Company> thomasvs: you're free to go begging there
[17:53] <Company> thomasvs: i don't think we need kde - especially not with their behaviour
[17:54] <thomasvs> Well, I don't think kde needs us - especially with our behaviour
[17:54] <Company> thomasvs: we want kde, but we certainly don't need it
[17:54] <thomasvs> it's not about begging, it's about respect for different opinions
[17:54] <thomasvs> I'm not using or hacking on kde, but that doesn't mean I don't respect kde hackers
[17:54] <Company> thomasvs: so i should respect their opinion that everything in C sucks and not bother?
[17:54] <thomasvs> looking at wheels, I'd say the same goes for them
[17:55] <thomasvs> Company: what does it matter if people say everything in C sucks ?
[17:55] <thomasvs> Company: I'm sure you have a language where you think everything written in it sucks
[17:55] <thomasvs> even if it's LOGO :)
[17:55] <Company> thomasvs: obviously a lot, because when i say something like that i need to shut up
[17:55] <wheels> Company: Well, but you completely misread the situation.  The general feel was positive and the only thing that was said was that there isn't really a replacement for aRts yet -- and that was said by the most flameworhty guy in the channel.  But then your comment pissed off people that would otherwise not have gotten into that.
[17:55] <thomasvs> Company: no, you're free to speak your mind.
[17:56] <thomasvs> Company: but, remember that your personal opinion reflects on this project as a whole
[17:57] <thomasvs> Company: I'm sure you respect wheels as a developer, and hence maybe also the "political" work he's done to get gstreamer to be a viable alternative
[17:57] <markey> Company: gstreamer has a bit of a PR image with KDE-developers, naturally. 
[17:57] <thomasvs> anyways, I'll take myself out of the discussion :) I don't know what's happening on #kde anywway.
[17:57] <markey> it is a GNOME-technology
[17:57] <markey> and starts with G
[17:57] <markey> it's written in c+glib
[17:57] <markey> what else
[17:57] <wheels> Company: And of course there's going to be things said about GSt from time to time that you don't like.  I mean, sometimes that's good -- I mean, critical discussion of all of the MM issues is good and people aren't trying to be "nice" to GStreamer in a non GStreamer channel.  But the equivalent would be them coming in here and saying "GStreamer isn't as good as aRts" or something.  ;-)
[17:58] <wheels> Company: And in that context it would have been a troll...
[17:58] <Company> wheels: yeah, but i wouldn't feel insulted by someone coming here and claiming that
[17:58] <thomasvs> I would.  arts sucks big time :)
[17:58] Action: thomasvs ducks
[17:59] <wheels> Company: I'm still not sure what you felt insulted by in #kde-devel, actually.
[17:59] <Company> wheels: nothing
[17:59] <teuf> markey: the "annoying" dependency in gstreamer isn't glib, but gobject ;)
[17:59] <Company> let's not start seperating glib and gobject
[17:59] <thomasvs> teuf: it's both, really
[17:59] <wheels> thomasvs: Well, and you probably could get away with that in #kde-devel too.  Most of us don't really like it.  :-)
[17:59] <markey> teuf: it's not the dependency, but the coding style really
[17:59] <wheels> thomasvs: But don't try.  :-)
[17:59] <markey> the dependency is a non-issue
[18:00] <thomasvs> markey: the coding style ? how ?
[18:00] <teuf> thomasvs: yeah, but by treating glib and gobject as 2 different deps, I have the hope that some day kde people will stop saying pure C is better than C+glib :)
[18:00] <wheels> teuf: Well, that's my line, really.  I think glib is pretty reasonable for C based programming.  I still don't really like GObject, but that's another matter.
[18:00] <Company> Because::KDE::Uses.AnotherStyle ()
[18:00] <markey> thomasvs: the C+GLIB style
[18:00] <markey> that's putting ppl off
[18:01] <teuf> wheels: it would be great if all non-gtk developers thought like you ;)
[18:01] <wheels> teuf: I think most people that have actually looked at or worked with glib in C wouldn't really claim that.
[18:01] <wheels> teuf: But most haven't.  :-)
[18:01] <Company> i know that people dislike glib coding style
[18:01] <Company> i don't like the qt style myself
[18:01] <teuf> the most annoying issue glib has is that most people assume glib == gobject and reject it as a whole
[18:01] <thomasvs> I don't think there's a single soul out there who can reasonably back up with some facts that pure C is better than C+onlyglib
[18:01] <wheels> teuf: Well, to be perfectly clear if I were starting a C project now I would use Glib.  :-)
[18:01] <wheels> teuf: But I'd stay a few miles away from GObject.  :-)
[18:01] <Company> but that doesn't mean i'd consider it - someone jsut does a wrapper
[18:02] <markey> wheels: ack
[18:02] <thomasvs> markey: what about the glib coding style is bad ?
[18:02] <teuf> wheels: sounds reasonable :)
[18:02] <Company> teuf: it doesn't sound reasonable if you wanna do OOP - ask the GstData hackers ;)
[18:03] <markey> thomasvs: 1) need for frequent casting 2) the_awfully_long_function_names 3) low code density
[18:03] <teuf> Company: I guess wheels would choose c++ for oop :)
[18:03] <wheels> thomasvs: It's mostly a conceptual thing.  I mean there's something subconcious that says that depending on glib is giving up and going to the other side -- for some people...
[18:03] <wheels> teuf: Well, I'd choose an OOP language for OOP.  I'm not a C++ ueber alles type of guy.  :-)
[18:03] <thomasvs> markey: don't you think that's just a side effect of being pure C in the end, and not having OO ?
[18:04] <markey> thomasvs: sure
[18:04] Action: Company still likes long function names
[18:04] <thomasvs> markey: well, so, not really glib's fault :) what I mean is, if you compare pure C vs C and glib, I don't see why people would chose the first
[18:04] <thomasvs> markey: though using python myself, I agree it's nice to do oo stuff on strings for example
[18:04] <wheels> thomasvs: I think really only for my reason above...
[18:05] <markey> thomasvs: trying to emulate OOP with C
[18:05] <thomasvs> wheels: that, or not being able to use glib for any reason
[18:07] <wheels> thomasvs: But I think it's pretty clear that in non-trivial C programming you basically need a lot of what glib provides.  GObject is only useful in a paradigm that a lot of people think is kind of a bad idea to do in C.  That's mostly the breakdown as I see it...
[18:09] <Company> GCC needs __attribute ((inherited))
[18:09] <Company> so you can do OOP with structs
[18:09] <Company> in C
[18:09] <Company> after that i'm happy
[18:14] <markey> I'm a bit surprised you guys don't dig C++, since it basically combines the speed of the with the elegance of OOP
[18:14] <markey> ..adding the price of complexity ;)
[18:15] <markey> speed of C even
[18:15] Action: markey tends to omit words
[18:16] <thomasvs> markey: I guess for me personally the main reason is that C++ is just not big enough of a leap from C.
[18:16] <spyder482> C++ is aggravating at best for loading plugins
[18:16] <thomasvs> markey: and it looks to me that people jump 2 or more levels in complexity
[18:16] <thomasvs> markey: ie, I've seen a lot of people who know assembler and don't do c, but c++
[18:16] <thomasvs> and I see a lot of people who do c, and something like python or c# or mono
[18:17] <spyder482> C++ is nice but the big problem to me is compiler compatibility
[18:18] <spyder482> you have to expose things via C if you want to use them as a library
[18:18] <spyder482> unless you us the same compiler for the library as you do the app
[18:18] <wheels> spyder482: Yeah, that is a real problem.  It can be worked around, but it is an annoyance.
[18:18] <Company> markey: there's a lot of things in C++ that i don't like, though i'd certainly like a subset
[18:19] <Company> markey: id's till want my long_function_names though
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[18:19] <markey> Company: the long function names are just a style issue. what I dislike about your style is encoding type information in the name
[18:20] <Company> markey: yeah, that's the thing i like
[18:21] <Company> markey: there's a difference between gst_pad_get_parent and gst_object_get_parent
[18:22] <markey> Company: indeed, and with OOP the difference would be intrinsic in the object
[18:22] <markey> btw, could that not be done with glib, too?
[18:22] <Company> we do vtables
[18:23] <Company> like chainfunctions on pads for example
[18:24] <Company> the nice thing about C is that it tells you about vtables explicitly
[18:24] <Company> you can't just accidently call some function that then does something unexpected
[18:24] <Company> gst_object_get_parent always calls gst_object_get_parent
[18:25] <Company> it never calls gst_pad_get_parent if your object happens to be a pad
[18:26] <markey> right, and with OOP this doesn't happen, either
[18:27] <markey> compiler checks it all
[18:27] <Company> not really
[18:27] <Company> if the function is virtual, you're screwed
[18:27] <markey> foo.get_parent() will work fine for both types of object
[18:27] <markey> not at all
[18:28] <Company> and i really hate it when people start oerloading funtions to do completely different stuff
[18:29] <Company> like KApplication constructors that might or might not require KCmdLineArgs being setup in advance
[18:29] Action: Company looks at his KIO plugin ;)
[18:29] <Company> so i prefer C because this can't happen
[18:33] Action: Company things KDEGst should use GConf settings for audio sinks ;)
[18:33] Action: wheels is glad Company doesn't have a CVS account for this.  :-)
[18:34] <wheels> Company: But I think on this iteration I will add a KControl module.
[18:35] <julo> thomasvs: here is the error message I get: Error getting file http://gstreamer.net/pkg/fedora/1/i386/yum/gst/RPMS/gstreamer06-plugins-devel-0.6.5-0.fdr.1.1.i386.rpm
[18:35] <julo> [Errno 4] IOError: HTTP Error 403: Forbidden
[18:36] <thomasvs> julo: hm, I'll check that right away
[18:36] <julo> thomasvs: thanks a lot
[18:38] <thomasvs> julo: try again
[18:49] <markey> Company: how can I restrict my typefind seach to audio?
[18:49] <markey> currently it accepts about anything
[18:49] <markey> text, video, you name it
[18:50] <Company> markey: you can't
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[18:50] <markey> no please 
[18:50] <Company> markey: it's a problem that needs a new autoplugger
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[18:50] <markey> how about mimetype investigating?
[18:50] <markey> only accepting audio/something
[18:51] <markey> I'm sure I don't want to play .txt files
[18:51] <Company> that's how rb does it atm i think
[18:51] <markey> btw, why .txt?
[18:51] <apoc> hi
[18:51] <markey> it's beyond me
[18:51] <Company> because we have text-to-speech plugins
[18:51] <markey> uh
[18:51] <julo> thomasvs: after a very long dependency solving, it started downloading the packages ! Thanks again.
[18:52] <thomasvs> does anyone here use utf-8 subtitles with mplayer ?
[18:52] <jdahlin> thomasvs: now you're pushing it
[18:52] <Company> markey: rhythmbox solves it by trying to play the file and if that doesn't autoplug, it doesn't add the file to the playlist
[18:52] <Company> markey: but even that has still issues
[18:52] <markey> sounds slow
[18:53] <markey> I'd prefer something speedy
[18:53] <Company> markey: it's really the only thing to figure out if gst can play something
[18:53] <markey> GST shoud provide a list of mimetypes it supports
[18:53] <markey> then the app could choose a category
[18:53] <Company> markey: is application/ogg audio?
[18:54] <markey> mimtypes suck
[18:54] <markey> you're right
[18:54] <markey> it should really be: audio/vorbis
[18:54] <Company> that's the problem with containers
[18:54] <markey> true
[18:54] <Company> i want mymp3.zip to play, too
[18:54] <teuf> rhythmbox has a list of mimetypes it supports and only accept files with this mime type
[18:54] <Company> or mymp3.bz2
[18:54] <teuf> I don't think it tries to play the file
[18:55] <markey> teuf: we could use that, too
[18:55] <Company> teuf: it tries for metadata querying
[18:55] <Company> teuf: though it doesn't try every type
[18:55] <teuf> Company: before metadata, it filters files out looking tat the mime type
[18:55] <Company> the correct way is to tell the autoplugger to plug an audio playback pipeline
[18:56] <teuf> anyway you need to create custom pipelines depending on the file type to get metadata, don't you ?
[18:56] <Company> teuf: yeah, that's why it doesn't import my mods anymore...
[18:56] <Company> and if the autoplugger succeeeds, you add the file to the list
[18:56] <Company> that's the only way it can work
[18:56] <teuf> Company: you can hack rb_metadata_type_map in rb-metadat-gst.c to add support for mods :)
[18:56] <Company> teuf: good idea
[18:57] Action: markey even tried rhythmbox the other day
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[18:57] <markey> using knoppix
[18:59] <Company> markey: did you like it?
[19:00] <teuf> markey: rhythmbox is available in knoppix ?
[19:00] <markey> I was positively surprised by it's GUI
[19:00] <markey> Gtk 2.x
[19:00] <markey> haven't tried much so far
[19:00] <markey> it looked rather nice
[19:00] <markey> functionality wise, I think it's rather limited
[19:01] <markey> I think it's comparable to JuK in style and interface
[19:01] <Company> markey: we're working on it (and you probably tested 0.6)
[19:02] <teuf> I should add support for itunes shares to it, that would rock ;)
[19:02] <markey> bad impression left the usual GST seeking problems
[19:02] <markey> I was jumping around a few times in the file, and BOOM
[19:02] <markey> seeking is a bit of a dark side with GST
[19:02] <markey> (for whatever reason)
[19:03] <Company> because gst is a streeaming framework
[19:03] <markey> that's no excuse
[19:03] <Company> it's like setting a river to an arbitrary point, you have to showel the water back up
[19:03] <markey> seeking is absolutely basic
[19:03] <thomasvs> Company: it's completely not like a river :)
[19:03] <markey> even with 0.8 it's a bit weird
[19:03] <thomasvs> Company: shoveling can be instantenous
[19:03] <Company> thomasvs: depends on the source
[19:04] <Company> there are some sources with quite a big showel
[19:04] <thomasvs> Company: right, but for file playback, there's no issue
[19:04] <markey> right
[19:04] <Company> yes, there's an issue
[19:04] <Company> the plugins must get seeking right
[19:05] <markey> aRts has 0 trouble with seeking
[19:05] <lilo_booter> curiousity - you using festival for text to voice? do you have seeking capabilities with that?
[19:05] <Company> arts doesn't do video
[19:05] <markey> so?
[19:05] <Company> video makes it complicated
[19:05] <markey> I still want an mp3 to seek correctly
[19:06] <Company> we all do
[19:06] <Company> (and mp3 should seek correctly)
[19:06] <Company> ogg seeking in 0.8 definitely works nice and fast
[19:06] <lilo_booter> how about speex?
[19:07] <Company> haven't used speex
[19:07] <Company> nor festival
[19:08] <lilo_booter> what are your text to speech plugins using if not festival?
[19:10] <Company> i haven'T used it
[19:10] <Company> the plugins use festival
[19:10] <lilo_booter> ah - k
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[19:52] <Company> someone is working on weekends here
[19:52] <walters> someone doesn't have internet access at home yet ;)
[19:52] <walters> someone in fact has nothing at home other than an inflatable bed and some clothes :)
[19:54] <Company> lol
[19:55] <Company> ok, excused :)
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[20:22] <noah> http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/download/fedora.html -- the two gpg keys differ...
[20:23] Action: noah followed the steps
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[20:25] Action: Company pokes thomasvs for noah
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[20:33] <thomasvs> noah: yeah, I know.  I'm trying to figure that out too.  just ignore it for now, it's due to different gpg versions
[20:33] <noah> thomasvs: ah. so it should work with either key..?
[20:35] <thomasvs> noah: yeah, it should
[20:35] <noah> thx
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[20:38] Nick change: The_Company -> Company
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[21:20] <ofer> hello
[21:20] <ofer> im having problems wwith gst-template
[21:20] <ofer> it seems to want gstreamer v 0.7
[21:21] <ofer> so autogen.sh craps out
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[21:28] <ofer> i'm using fedora with the gst packages on the website (that include 0.8 and 0.6, but not 0.7
[21:29] <Company> ofer: you can just replace 0.7 by 0.8 in gst-template
[21:29] <Company> ofer: and i'll look at it in a moment
[21:32] <ofer> Company, i'm not very experienced with the make system, i'm one of those guys that just runs configure and ltes it go, if it failes, im lost
[21:32] <ofer> where do i replace 0.7 with 0.8?
[21:32] <Company> ofer: inside configure.ac
[21:32] <Company> (there shouldn't be that many 0.7 present)
[21:33] <ofer> GST_REQUIRED 0.7.2
[21:33] <Company> nope
[21:33] <ofer> what do i replace it with?
[21:34] <ofer> changing GST_MAJOR to 0.8 worked
[21:35] <Company> yeah, that should be enough
[21:38] <Company> ofer: i fixed the template now
[21:38] <ofer> thank you
[21:38] <Company> iain: you could try updating entry and see if your old pipeline now works (it just might after my recent rewrite)
[21:38] <ofer> oh, theres no stamp script as written in the documentation
[21:39] <ofer> http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/head/pwg/html/section-boiler-project-stamp.html
[21:39] <ofer> there is no tools/pluginstamp.sh
[21:40] <iain> Company: okay, will do later, unless I fall asleep :)
[21:40] Nick change: spyder482 -> spyder_tv
[21:41] <ofer> thanks for making a template, barrier to entry to gstreamer would be way too high if there wasnt one =)
[21:41] Nick change: Jara[zZ] -> Jaramir
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[22:04] <Zeenix> hello
[22:05] Nick change: Jaramir -> Jara[zZ]
[22:05] Nick change: Jara[zZ] -> Jaramir
[22:12] <ofer> hello
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[22:16] <teuf> Company: entryscheduler.c: In function `schedule':
[22:16] <teuf> entryscheduler.c:563: warning: `schedule_me' might be used uninitialized in this function
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[22:41] <Company> hm
[22:42] <Company> teuf: "fixed"
[22:48] Nick change: Jaramir -> Jara[zZ]
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[23:09] <looksaus> just thinking out loud...
[23:10] <looksaus> would anyone feel encouraged to start work
[23:10] <looksaus> on a midi plugin for gstreamer
[23:10] <looksaus> if a bounty were to be offered?
[23:10] <looksaus> or do you think this wouldn't make much different
[23:10] <looksaus> or counterproductive?
[23:10] <Company> depends on the bounty and what a "midi plugin" is i guess
[23:12] <looksaus> well, there's this document that sums up a few things nicely...
[23:12] <looksaus> http://freedesktop.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/gstreamer/gstreamer/docs/random/uraeus/gstreamer_and_midi.txt?rev=1.2&view=auto
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[23:15] <looksaus> I have no idea of the amount of work needed
[23:16] <looksaus> for any step towards midi support
[23:18] <Company> me neither
[23:19] <Company> it looks pretty easy to get something like midi file => midi output going, but i have never done midi, so i have no clue
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[23:21] Nick change: spyder_tv -> spyder482
[23:21] <BBB> leif sent some documents
[23:21] <BBB> and there's some stuff in docs/random/midi
[23:21] <Company> yeah
[23:21] <Company> that's what we talked about
[23:21] <looksaus> BBB, just posted the url :)
[23:21] <BBB> ah ;)
[23:22] <BBB> brb
[23:22] <looksaus> I'm just a classical guitarist with little to no programming skills
[23:23] <looksaus> but I do see how useful gstreamer midi support could be
[23:23] <looksaus> for music education
[23:23] <looksaus> so I'm just wondering how I could encourage people to start working on that
[23:24] <looksaus> I wouldn't mind a bit of money (say 100 eur)
[23:24] <looksaus> if that could help speed up things
[23:24] <looksaus> or sending some free beer to the developers concerned
[23:24] <looksaus> or ...
[23:24] <BBB> haha :)
[23:24] <rillian> it is in fact easy to get midi file->midi output working
[23:24] <rillian> and the other way around
[23:25] <BBB> we have some midi elements, don't we?
[23:25] <rillian> anything live, I expect the latency would bee to high
[23:25] <BBB> they're sequencer elements
[23:25] <BBB> GPL, unfortunately
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[23:25] <BBB> we miss a midi "dedcoder"
[23:25] <BBB> so midi->pcm
[23:25] <BBB> and midi encoders are pretty much impossible so I wouldn't even bother
[23:25] <looksaus> ...which would be most interesting
[23:26] <BBB> I know... there's some libs doing it, but that, too, is all GPL
[23:26] <BBB> I don't mind much
[23:26] <looksaus> that's not the primary use
[23:26] <BBB> but we prefer LGPL
[23:26] <Company> +we don't have midi elemenbts
[23:26] <looksaus> in education
[23:26] <BBB> Company: we do have code for it somewhere
[23:26] <Company> we don't even have a midi mimetype
[23:26] <BBB> Company: I have no clue where, but we have mime soundcardsrc/sink elements
[23:26] <BBB> and a parser
[23:27] <BBB> it might be in my mailbox somewhere
[23:27] <BBB> it was sent to the mailinglist some time
[23:27] <Company> i'm pretty sure we don't have that
[23:27] <Company> there was only people discussing it
[23:27] <BBB> I'm absolutely >100% sure that we do, I've seen the code ;)
[23:27] <BBB> and I've had the code on my HD, I probably still do
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[23:28] <Company> i can't remember having seen anything that worked
[23:29] <BBB> I didn't say it worked... ;)
[23:30] <Company> there were quite some people expressing interest at different times, but since there were nothing and they would have had to start from scratch, nobody went on
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[23:32] <BBB> I've seen code company
[23:32] <BBB> I was told that it worked for him
[23:32] <BBB> I couldn't test it
[23:32] <BBB> there *is* code
[23:32] <BBB> take that from me
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[23:35] <looksaus> would it be useful if I document what I want to do with midi?
[23:36] <looksaus> I mean, these are basic needs
[23:36] <looksaus> that might be part of a basic implementation...
[23:36] <mathrick> JcY
[23:36] <looksaus> mathrick, ?
[23:36] Action: mathrick is getting undrunk :\
[23:36] <looksaus> heheh
[23:37] <mathrick> looksaus: it's japanese for wassup :)
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[23:57] <ds> moo
[00:00] --- Sun Apr  4 2004
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[00:15] Action: sxpert builds more recent gstreamer :D
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[00:17] <balor> Anyone use gst on Gentoo GNU/Linux?
[00:18] <thomasvs> balor: there are people, yes
[00:18] <balor> thomasvs: Do they know how to install the alsa plugin :)
[00:18] Action: mathrick steers towards bed
[00:18] <mathrick> nite
[00:19] Nick change: mathrick -> mathrick|sleep
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[00:21] <ds> moo
[00:21] <Misirlou> moo moo
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[00:26] <ds> moo
[00:26] <Misirlou> moo moo moo
[00:26] Action: walters looks back and forth between Misirlou and ds
[00:27] <wheels> walters: moo?
[00:27] <ds> sometimes I wonder how I can ifdown one interface, ifup another on a different IP address, and somehow TCP connections still work
[00:27] Action: walters feels kind of like he's in that part in "Being John Malkovich", except everyone is saying moo
[00:27] <ds> malkovich malkovich
[00:27] <walters> MALKOVICH!!!!!
[00:28] <walters> ds: you'd still have to have the kernel listen on the old address
[00:29] <ds> apparently
[00:29] <walters> ds: since there's no way in TCP to tell remote machines, "Hey, I just changed IP address"
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[00:29] <Company> that sounds like a clever idea though
[00:29] <ds> anyway, my wireless card decided to stop working
[00:30] <ds> so i'm wired
[00:30] <ds> this sucks
[00:30] <walters> ouch
[00:30] <Company> being ablke to change ip addresses is certainly easier than updating routing tables
[00:30] <Company> it's better to be wirde than without hd
[00:30] <Company> but it still sucks
[00:30] Action: ds mails Company a hard drive
[00:30] <Company> got a neww one already
[00:31] <walters> what happened to your drive?
[00:31] <Company> IBM DTLA
[00:31] <Company> need i say more?
[00:31] <walters> ah
[00:31] <walters> i guess so...
[00:31] <walters> are those drives known to fail a lot or something?
[00:31] <Company> yeah
[00:31] <Company> it even worked for 3 years
[00:31] <Company> and then the bad sectors started popping up everywhere
[00:32] <Company> so i bought a new one and decided to use debian
[00:37] <spyder482> we've had 4 of those go out here
[00:37] <spyder482> all replaced by some other brand now :)
[00:38] <Company> i'm using a WD now
[00:38] <Company> it's definitely far more silent
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[00:47] <wheels> walters: The product name is the Deskstar, but it's usually referred to as the "Deathstar"
[00:47] <wheels> walters: I've known at least half a dozen people that have had them die...
[00:48] <Company> i only learned about those disks dying _after_ i bought them...
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[00:59] <Company> someone give me a simple algorithm to select the next element to schedule
[01:00] <walters> for elt in elements: if schedulable(elt): schedule(elt)
[01:00] <walters> :)
[01:01] <Company> yeah, that's what i'm doing and it doesn't work :p
[01:01] <Company> well, it works, but you always end up with buffers in control of the scheduler
[01:01] <Company> which means you can never finish an iteration because of live buffers
[01:02] <sxpert> walters: it actually depends where said disk was produced, and when...
[01:02] <sxpert> walters: known bad series ;D
[01:03] <Company> sxpert: where did the bad ones come from?
[01:05] <sxpert> Company: there are several bad series. the worst was that series from hungary where the subcontractor that made the ball-bearings replaced the specified steel with cheaper stuff that softened under the load...
[01:05] <sxpert> Company: at some point, the HDD came to a screeching halt ;D
[01:06] <Company> "made in thailand"
[01:06] <sxpert> Company: some other series had too-flexible head arms...
[01:06] <sxpert> the heads would get a little too close from the platter under varied circumstances
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[01:07] <sxpert> also, buggy software in other series is to blame...
[01:08] <sxpert> Company: the more recent series are rock stable though (especially since they did away with ball bearings altogether)
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[01:10] <Company> sxpert: i'm not going to buy ibm hds for a while
[01:10] <sxpert> Company: I have had an IBM 60G for 2 years in the car now, with no issues whatsoever
[01:11] <Company> and i've had 2 dead ones in 4 years
[01:12] <sxpert> heh, dunno what to tell you :D
[01:12] <Company> which means i need to hear from at least 20 people personally that they are happily using IBM disks since years
[01:12] <Company> the other option are good enough
[01:12] <sxpert> mine's an IC35L...
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[01:13] <Company> yeah, i've got a dead IC35L040AVER07-0 here :)
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[01:14] <sxpert> mine is IC35L060AVVA07-0
[01:17] <pb_> how long had the dead drives been used for?  Those things are only rated for about 20000 power on hours.
[01:17] <walters> wow, that's only 2.2 years
[01:18] Action: walters really needs to preemptively replace the drive in his colo box
[01:19] <pb_> walters: right.  they quote an expected lifetime of 5 years in a "typical PC environment", but that's assuming the machine is switched off at night.
[01:19] <walters> yeah
[01:19] <Company> pb_: 3 years, aswitched off at nights
[01:20] <Company> pb_: and the other was only a bit longer than 1 year
[01:20] <pb_> ah.  one year does sound rather poor.
[01:21] <pb_> walters: most modern drives will tell you through SMART when they are getting close to their rated lifetimes.
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[02:01] <ds> moo
[02:03] <Company> there's loads of cows today
[02:06] <ds> we prefer the gender-neutral term "cattle"
[02:06] <Company> cattle sounds too much like kitten
[02:12] <Company> shit, i don't want such a function :/
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[02:28] Nick change: spyder482 -> spyder_tv
[02:30] <Company> ds-work: found a new name for gst_pad_select yet?
[02:31] <Company> ds-work: otherwise i'll use gst_pad_collect
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[02:31] <Company> ds: found a new name for gst_pad_select yet?
[02:32] <Company> ds: otherwise i'll use gst_pad_collect
[02:42] <BBB> ehw
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