[MPEGIF Discuss] [systems] does exist MPEG-4 system application for TV over DSL ?
"igino manfre'" <[email protected]> Wed, 29 Sep 2004 19:24:16 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.video.mpeg4.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============75672206376972118== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0035_01C4A659.E92A2510" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C4A659.E92A2510 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx3.magma.ca id i8UHiTbK017719 Dear Cyril, I had the pleasure to see Nero Digital at Ateme boot last IBC, and I brow= se the web looking for the characteristics of the product. You have the powe= r of Nero to deploy your application. In the meantime DTT is going to be implemented everywhere in the "old" MPEG-2 ... I had the broadcast TV in mind writing about "framing" of MPEG-4. I thought to immense possibilities of ISO 14996 could show if adopted for consumer television over DSL network or -- generally speaking -- through ibrid networks where an access gateway merge all the possible streams tow= ard the user. There, I think, MPEG-4 systems could deploy its power, but any application is extremely good to now!. In any case, thank you again, Igino Manfre' ----------------------- Igino Manfre' - [email protected] Broadcast Video Consultant Mobile (+39) 3358235346 Home (+39) 0650916416 13, Largo Nearco I 00124 ROMA - ITALY -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Cyril Fombonne [mailto:[email protected]] Inviato: mercoled=EC 29 settembre 2004 18:58 A: igino manfre' Cc: mp4-tech-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]; discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected] Oggetto: Re: [MPEGIF Discuss] [systems] [discussion] Who framed MPEG-4 withinH264 ? Hello Igino, This would be true if Nero Digital(tm) did not exist. Nero Digital(tm) is the brand name that encompasses MPEG-4 Audio, MPEG-= 4 Video and MPEG-4 System parts of the ISO 14496. Regarding the specs, this is really a global MPEG-4 implementation with some more extended features. That means that it brings all flavours of crispy AAC (LC, HE) sound with all system features such as MP4 file with chapter marks, multiple subtitles, multiple audio tracks. Now moving to technology. All the above mentionned features are existin= g now and IC manufacturers already start to embedd the technology. Ateme, co-developper of Nero Digital with Ahead Software, has it all for you to deploy devices, including full documentation and licensing schemes. Now try the first tool featuring Nero Digital(tm) : Nero Recode 2 (enco= de any content to Nero Digital file). This is the best performing tool to da= te on the encoding side. Speed benchmarks confirm this, at equal quality / s= et of parameters. The easiness is also emphasised. And above all, Nero Digit= al relies on a very large community of users creating content every day, and potentially creating a pull for embedded STBs / players. I hope you got the message and that everyone will keep pushing MPEG-4 Video but also Audio and System as it proves himself to be simply the bes= t technology for quality at lowest bitrates. Cyril Fombonne Product Manager Tel: +33 1 69 35 89 88 Fax: +33 1 60 19 13 95 www.ateme.com Nero Digital - Watch. Listen. Experience. www.nerodigital.com ----- Original Message ----- From: igino manfre' To: mp4-tech-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected] ; discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected] Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 7:26 PM Subject: [MPEGIF Discuss] [systems] [discussion] Who framed MPEG-4 withinH264 ? Hi people, It seems me that we are forgetting that MPEG-4 is NOT ONLY a visual compression scheme. Really it is all but BUT NOT ONLY a visual compression scheme. I presume you all agree. If we consider the subjects of this newsgroup, in the last two-three years the focus migrates from the visual (who was in or out MPEG-4) to the MPEG-LA licensing schemes (that could better defined "mpeg-4 suicide") and ag= ain back to the visual (h264). It can be also felt a growing interest fro= m India and far east. In this landscape, I find almost no mail related to the "system" of MPEG-4, and I do not think because they are better explained. Two years ago there had been a lot of development of SDKs and authori= ng systems in the area, many of which used to work (even fine). Probably all these have been commercial flops since now at the exhibitions no-one = is more pushing fully MPEG-4 based solutions. All and only H264. Does it mean= s that MPEG-4 (in its complex) is dead ? Really, for what I know, excluding the many experiments and demo targeted to demostrate the power of object encoding and multiplexing within MPEG-= 4 systems (meanly two-three years old), I do not know any "true" (i.e. marketable) application of "true" MPEG-4 after the part "-2". Today the entire world is fashioned by H264. Its astonishing 2-3 Mbps 720P video will probably be the first "true" MPEG-4 part really diffused o= n the Earth. All the broadcast encoder manufacturer are today able to show their h264 solution... But the broadcast usage will probably be a terrible mix of H264 ES vi= deo & MP3 or AC3 audio over MPEG-2 transport. The goal is to "squeeze" enou= gh the required bandwidth to allow the deploiment of high definition TV over cable modem. To make this mix dirtier, probably these broadcast will carry OCAP or MHP/OpenTV interactivity. Does not it sound a little blasfeme ? What do you think about ? The diffusion of MPEG-2 STB is not a key factor, since the current ST= Bs must be replaced in any case to decompress the H264. But a STB that will b= e able to decode H264 could have enough computational power to implement the entire standard. Really it is an architectural problem since if the entire decoder wil= l be put in a dice of silicon any further expansion could not be possible.= .. An observation I expect is that as "the market trains the research", = as well it trains the newsgroups. But maybe the locomotives (or who designs t= he railways) do not sufficiently know what COULD be available... Are we really sure to have done the right work ? Best regards, Igino Manfre' ----------------------- Igino Manfre' - [email protected] Broadcast Video Consultant Mobile (+39) 3358235346 Home (+39) 0650916416 13, Largo Nearco I 00124 ROMA - ITALY _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected] http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guideli= nes found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C4A659.E92A2510 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1458" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D024470717-29092004>Dear=20 Cyril,</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D024470717-29092004></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D024470717-29092004>I had=20 the pleasure to see Nero Digital at Ateme boot last IBC, and I browse = the web=20 looking for the characteristics of the product. You have the power of = Nero to=20 deploy your application.</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D024470717-29092004>In the=20 meantime DTT is going to be implemented everywhere in the = "old" MPEG-2=20 ...</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D024470717-29092004>I had=20 the broadcast TV in mind writing about "framing" of MPEG-4.=20 </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D024470717-29092004>I=20 thought to immense possibilities of ISO 14996 could show if = adopted=20 for consumer television over DSL network or -- generally speaking -- = through=20 ibrid networks where an access gateway merge all the possible streams = toward the=20 user. </SPAN></FONT><SPAN class=3D024470717-29092004><FONT = face=3DArial=20 color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>There, I think, MPEG-4 systems could deploy its = power, but=20 any application is extremely good to now!.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D024470717-29092004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D024470717-29092004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>In any=20 case, thank you again,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D024470717-29092004><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff = size=3D2>Igino=20 Manfre'</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <P><FONT size=3D2>-----------------------<BR><BR>Igino Manfre' -=20 [email protected]<BR>Broadcast Video Consultant<BR>Mobile (+39)=20 3358235346<BR>Home (+39) 0650916416<BR>13, Largo Nearco<BR>I = 00124=20 ROMA - ITALY</FONT> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT = face=3DTahoma=20 size=3D2>-----Messaggio originale-----<BR><B>Da:</B> Cyril Fombonne=20 [mailto:[email protected]]<BR><B>Inviato:</B> mercoled=EC 29 = settembre 2004=20 18:58<BR><B>A:</B> igino manfre'<BR><B>Cc:</B> = mp4-tech-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected];=20 discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]<BR><B>Oggetto:</B> Re: [MPEGIF Discuss] = [systems]=20 [discussion] Who framed MPEG-4 withinH264 ?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hello Igino,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>This would be true if Nero Digital(tm) did not = exist.=20 </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Nero Digital(tm) is the brand name that=20 encompasses MPEG-4 Audio, MPEG-4 Video and MPEG-4 System parts of = the ISO=20 14496. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Regarding the specs, this is really a=20 global MPEG-4 implementation with some more extended = features. That=20 means that it brings all flavours of crispy AAC (LC, HE) = sound=20 with all system features such as MP4 file with chapter marks, = multiple=20 subtitles, multiple audio tracks.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Now moving to technology. All the above mentionned = features=20 are existing now and IC manufacturers already start to embedd the = technology.=20 Ateme, co-developper of Nero Digital with Ahead Software, has it all = for you=20 to deploy devices, including full documentation and licensing=20 schemes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Now try the first tool featuring Nero Digital(tm) = : Nero=20 Recode 2 (encode any content to Nero Digital file). This is the best=20 performing tool to date on the encoding side. Speed benchmarks confirm = this,=20 at equal quality / set of parameters. The easiness is also = emphasised.=20 And above all, Nero Digital relies on a very large community of users = creating=20 content every day, and potentially creating a pull for embedded STBs / = players.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I hope you got the message and that everyone will = keep=20 pushing MPEG-4 Video but also Audio and System as it proves himself to = be=20 simply the best technology for quality at lowest = bitrates.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cyril Fombonne<BR>Product Manager</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Tel: +33 1 69 35 89 88<BR>Fax: +33 1 60 19 13 = 95<BR><A=20 href=3D"http://www.ateme.com">www.ateme.com</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Nero Digital - Watch. Listen. Experience.<BR><A=20 = href=3D"http://www.nerodigital.com">www.nerodigital.com</A></FONT></DIV><= /FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV> <DIV=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: = black"><B>From:</B>=20 <A [email protected] = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">igino=20 manfre'</A> </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A = title=3Dmp4-tech-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]=20 = href=3D"mailto:mp4-tech-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]">mp4-tech-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]</A> = ; <A=20 title=3Ddiscuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]=20 = href=3D"mailto:discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]">discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]</A> = </DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, September 28, = 2004 7:26=20 PM</DIV> <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [MPEGIF Discuss] = [systems]=20 [discussion] Who framed MPEG-4 withinH264 ?</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>Hi people,<BR><BR>It seems me = that we are=20 forgetting that MPEG-4 is NOT ONLY a visual<BR>compression = scheme.<BR>Really=20 it is all but BUT NOT ONLY a visual compression scheme.<BR><BR>I = presume you=20 all agree.<BR><BR>If we consider the subjects of this newsgroup, in = the last=20 two-three years<BR>the focus migrates from the visual (who was in or = out=20 MPEG-4) to the MPEG-LA<BR>licensing schemes (that could better = defined=20 "mpeg-4 suicide") and again<BR>back to the visual (h264). It can be = also=20 felt a growing interest from India<BR>and far east.<BR><BR>In this=20 landscape, I find almost no mail related to the "system" of = MPEG-4,<BR>and I=20 do not think because they are better explained.<BR><BR>Two years ago = there=20 had been a lot of development of SDKs and authoring<BR>systems in = the area,=20 many of which used to work (even fine). Probably all<BR>these have = been=20 commercial flops since now at the exhibitions no-one is = more<BR>pushing=20 fully MPEG-4 based solutions. All and only H264. Does it means=20 that<BR>MPEG-4 (in its complex) is dead ?<BR><BR>Really, for what I = know,=20 excluding the many experiments and demo targeted to<BR>demostrate = the power=20 of object encoding and multiplexing within MPEG-4<BR>systems (meanly = two-three years old), I do not know any "true" (i.e.<BR>marketable)=20 application of "true" MPEG-4 after the part "-2".<BR><BR>Today the = entire=20 world is fashioned by H264. Its astonishing 2-3 Mbps 720P<BR>video = will=20 probably be the first "true" MPEG-4 part really diffused on = the<BR>Earth.=20 All the broadcast encoder manufacturer are today able to show = their<BR>h264=20 solution...<BR><BR>But the broadcast usage will probably be a = terrible mix=20 of H264 ES video &<BR>MP3 or AC3 audio over MPEG-2 transport. = The goal=20 is to "squeeze" enough the<BR>required bandwidth to allow the = deploiment of=20 high definition TV over cable<BR>modem. To make this mix dirtier, = probably=20 these broadcast will carry OCAP or<BR>MHP/OpenTV = interactivity.<BR><BR>Does=20 not it sound a little blasfeme ? What do you think about = ?<BR><BR>The=20 diffusion of MPEG-2 STB is not a key factor, since the current STBs=20 must<BR>be replaced in any case to decompress the H264. But a STB = that will=20 be able<BR>to decode H264 could have enough computational power to = implement=20 the entire<BR>standard.<BR><BR>Really it is an architectural problem = since=20 if the entire decoder will be<BR>put in a dice of silicon any = further=20 expansion could not be possible...<BR><BR>An observation I expect is = that as=20 "the market trains the research", as well<BR>it trains the = newsgroups. But=20 maybe the locomotives (or who designs the<BR>railways) do not = sufficiently=20 know what COULD be available...<BR><BR>Are we really sure to have = done the=20 right work ?<BR><BR>Best regards, Igino=20 Manfre'<BR><BR>-----------------------<BR><BR>Igino Manfre' - = <A=20 = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A><BR>Br= oadcast=20 Video Consultant<BR>Mobile (+39) 3358235346<BR>Home = (+39)=20 0650916416<BR>13, Largo Nearco<BR>I 00124 ROMA -=20 = ITALY<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Discuss=20 mailing list<BR><A=20 = href=3D"mailto:Discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]">Discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected]</A><BR>= <A=20 = href=3D"http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.mp= egif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</A><BR><BR>Note:=20 Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines = found at=20 <A=20 = href=3D"http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitru= st.php">http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitru= st.php</A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0035_01C4A659.E92A2510-- --===============75672206376972118== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list Discuss-wvgAS0I8NaWTm/[email protected] http://lists.mpegif.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss Note: Conduct on the mailing list is subject to the Antitrust guidelines found at http://www.mpegif.org/public/documents/vault/mp-out-30042-Antitrust.php --===============75672206376972118==--