Re: Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit

[email protected] Fri, 5 Jun 2009 21:26:02 -0500 (CDT)
Newsgroups gmane.comp.video.openexr.user
Message-ID <1199919613.2453451244255162421.JavaMail.root@mb1>
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Chris,=20
I did read the thread. Every message. I may not of agreed with everything I=
 read, but I read it. I'm not even talking about the pre-multiplication iss=
ue. I can save out an image from my 3D package with AND without the pre-mul=
tiplication checkbox checked, and photoshop makes the parts of my image wit=
h zero alpha completly transparent and I can not find a way around that wit=
hout resorting to using another piece of software. It's just that simple.=
=20

You say I'm making a mistake. You say I'm wanting to change existing workfl=
ows. The upgrade from CS2 to CS3 broke our workflow. We used to be able to =
open EXRs and have the alpha show up as a sepperate channel and then CS3 br=
oke that. Who's breaking workflows? (off topic, but CS4 broke another of ou=
r workflows... We want the File->Automate->PDF Presentation back!!! The PDF=
 maker in Bridge CS4 does not cut it.)=20

I'm fine if you leave the current EXR import in CS4 as the default beheivor=
. What I want, and what a lot of other people want, is an option somewhere =
that changes that beheivor. We relize that it's not per the standard. We kn=
ow that it violates your interpretation of how it should be. But can't Phot=
oshop be flexable enough to help out everyone? Can't there be an option bur=
ried in the Prefrences, an ini file, a registery flag, something that can a=
llow us users to make Photoshop fit the workflow that WE decide to use, be =
it "right" or "wrong"?=20

I did see the mention of the super secret, NDA only work to edit the transp=
arency channel. I think that this is a good thing and I look forward to bei=
ng able to use it, but if the alpha is zero, and you have not kept any of t=
he RGB information, then it sounds like the transparency editor will only a=
llow us to access the RGB values for transparency values > 0.0. Is this cor=
rect?=20

Ray=20

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Chris Cox" <[email protected]>=20
To: [email protected], "openexr-user" <[email protected]>=20
Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 4:45:43 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific=20
Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit=20

Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit Ray;=20

Sigh. It really sounds like you didn=E2=80=99t read the thread. You are rep=
eating a lot of the mistakes that I kept correcting in that thread.=20
The RGB information is preserved as much as possible. If the file format is=
 premultiplied, we do have to un-multiply it. If the format is not premulti=
plied, we preserve it exactly as-is. We cannot always preserve premultiplie=
d file formats, or all compressed formats =E2=80=93 because the application=
 does not work with premultiplied or compressed data.=20

There were multiple changes requested in that thread =E2=80=93 many of whic=
h go against interoperability and standards. As explained, we have to deal =
with many different types of users and many workflows =E2=80=94 standards e=
xist to enable those workflows, and violating standards just hurts everyone=
 involved. If you don=E2=80=99t agree with the standards and want to see th=
e standard changed =E2=80=94 talk to the owner of the standard.=20
We are (as explained in the thread) working on solutions to the underlying =
problems (not being able to edit the transparency channel, and handling div=
ide by zero when un-multiplying).=20

Chris=20



On 6/5/09 4:28 PM, " [email protected] " < [email protected] > wrote:=20



Chris,=20
I have read the entire thread about this topic at the Adobe Forum (1). It's=
 sad that Photoshop currently discards RGB data of pixels that have zero op=
acity. I'm not alone (2,3) in wanting the flexibility in Photoshop to be ab=
le to open EXR's/PNG's/etc and have the capability to modify/remove the opa=
city/transparency of an image. I know for a fact that both EXR files (4,5) =
and PNG files (6) store RGB data when the A channel is set to zero. I perso=
nally think that it is a poor decision on Adobe's part to assume that opaci=
ty/transparency channel should be loaded into the transparency value withou=
t also providing tools to modify that value. If we had some way to paint th=
e transparency back to 1.0 (much the same way that you can paint a layers m=
ask), then I don't think that this would be an issue at all! In my ideal wo=
rld, the EXR and PNG plugins would create an RGB layer and load the opacity=
/transparency data into a layer mask.=20

As far as my "confusion" between "Alpha Channels" and "Transparency/Opacity=
 Channels", I'm not a software developer. I'm a user of commercial software=
 in a professional animation firm. Every application that I use (7) has the=
 ability to read and/or write RGB information to every pixel of an EXR/PNG =
image regardless the value of the alpha/transparency channel, EXCEPT Photos=
hop. The lack of Photoshops ability to also do this makes it a little less =
useful to me. I find it amazing that in order to edit some of my images in =
an "image editor" (aka Photoshop), that I must strip the alpha channel usin=
g another application. Would it not make since that Photoshop should be abl=
e to read and write any supported image format, and have the written file c=
ontain the same data as the origonal?=20

I really appreciate your continued activity on the Adobe Forum. From my exp=
irence with other topics/products, many embattled developers quickly get fl=
ustered and quit monitoring threads like that. On the other hand, I'm also =
amazed that you have a large number of users from major VFX/Animation firms=
 (including a co-author of the EXR docs) asking for a change, and you're st=
eadfastness against them in the name of your interpretation of technical ac=
curacy.=20

I really hope that Photoshop CS5 contains something that will allow us user=
s to edit images in the manner of our choosing. (no matter how wrong we are=
)=20

Thanks!=20
-Ray=20

(1) http://forums.adobe.com/thread/369637=20
(2) http://forums.adobe.com/message/1536084#1536084=20
(3) http://forums.adobe.com/message/1536077#1536077=20
(4) http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/OpenEXR-images/ScanLines/PrismsLense=
s.exr?root=3Dopenexr&view=3Dlog=20
(5) http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/OpenEXR-images/ScanLines/CandleGlass=
.exr?root=3Dopenexr&view=3Dlog=20
(6) http://www.nc3d.com/temp/PNG_With_Alpha_Sample.png=20
(7) 3D Studio Max, Lightwave, SoftImage, VRay, After Effects, Combustion=20

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Chris Cox" < [email protected] >=20
To: [email protected] , "openexr-user" < [email protected] >=20
Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 3:00:55 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific=20
Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit=20

Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit Again, Photosho=
p is a straight color application =E2=80=93 there is no such thing as color=
 values when the opacity is zero.=20

PNG is also well defined in it=E2=80=99s behavior =E2=80=93 and behaves exa=
ctly as the file format specification says it must.=20
TIFF can support alpha channels (which can contain anything) AND transparen=
cy/opacity channels. It sounds like you have these confused.=20

Chris=20




On 6/5/09 10:14 AM, " [email protected] " < [email protected] > wrote:=20



Hi Chris,=20
Maybe I didn't explain this well enough. There really is a couple of issues=
 here. So to explain further, I have an EXR file rendered out of 3DStudio i=
n a HDR scene. The scene is a landscape with buildings, hills, and a sky. T=
he hills and buildings have an alpha of 1.0, the sky has an alpha of 0.0. T=
he RGB information is not limited to a 0.0 - 1.0 range... there are some co=
lor values that go up into the 5.0-8.0 range (for example bright reflection=
s on the windows, and the color of the clouds in the sky).=20

If I use the default EXR plugin in CS4 it creates an RGB/32 document, but t=
he sky comes in 100% transparent. This is great if I don't need the sky, bu=
t there is color data for the sky in the EXR file. The sky is blue and ther=
e are white clouds. In After Effects I can alter the way it deals with the =
alpha, and I have the choice to ignore the alpha if I so choose. In Photosh=
op there are no options to do this. The EXR plugin is not the only one that=
 does this. The PNG plugin for example also discards all color data where t=
he alpha is 0.0. The TIFF plugin on the other hand puts the alpha informati=
on into a sepperate channel. I can then choose to use that alpha however I =
wish. Sometimes it's nice to have the alpha pre-composited with the RGB dat=
a the way the PNG/EXR plugin works, but it would also be nice to have an op=
tion somewhere that modifies how Photoshop deals with alpha in an image. I =
would love an option in the main program settings that globally modified ho=
w all image importers dealt with the Alpha.=20

Now if I use the plugin on the OpenEXR website, it brings up a dialog where=
 I can choose to Un-Premultiply, I can change the Gamma, and I can alter th=
e Exposure. It also places the alpha into a sepperate channel like the way =
the TIFF plugin works. I can see my sky and I have my alpha in a sepperate =
channel so that I can do with it what I please. The two problems I have wit=
h this plugin is that; 1) It creates an RGB/16 document instead of a RGB/32=
 which clamps the RGB values and leaves me stuck with the gamma/exposure se=
ttings I selected during import, and 2) There is no 64bit version of the pl=
ugin.=20

To recap, the default EXR plugin needs a user control for how it deals with=
 the alpha, and the OpenEXR plugin needs to open the image as a RGB/32 so t=
hat it does not clamp the color values.=20

I hope this posting is more clear.=20

-Ray=20

----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Chris Cox" < [email protected] >=20
To: [email protected] , [email protected]=20
Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:37:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific=20
Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit=20

Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit Ray;=20

Photoshop is a straight color application, and OpenEXR is defined as being =
premultiplied. This means that OpenEXR data has to be un-multiplied by the =
transparency/opacity values to work in Photoshop. To a straight color appli=
cation, there is no meaning to color values when the opacity is zero. If th=
e opacity is non-zero, then the color values are there - just un-multiplied=
 so they will composite correctly.=20

Photoshop already handles the EXR =E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D channel (defined in t=
he spec as opacity/transparency data) correctly =E2=80=93 it opens it as op=
acity/transparency.=20
What the Photoshop EXR plugin does not do is give you a way to open the tra=
nsparency channel as an arbitrary alpha channel, or to open channels other =
than RGBA.=20

I=E2=80=99m sorry I don=E2=80=99t have a solution for you, but your post so=
unded like you were confused about the terminology and what was happening t=
o your data (enough so that I still don=E2=80=99t know what=E2=80=99s not w=
orking for you with the Photoshop EXR plugin).=20

Chris=20



On 6/4/09 4:23 PM, " [email protected] " < [email protected] > wrote:=20



I'm working on a project that is rendering 32bit floating bit EXR files out=
 of 3DStudio. I'm then compiling these frames in After Effects in a 32 bit =
floating point composite and it's all working fine. The problem I'm having =
is that I also need to composite some scenes in Photoshop CS4, and the defa=
ult Photoshop EXR plugin is tossing out any data from the image that has a =
transparent alpha. I found the Photoshop plugin on the OpenEXR website and =
had hopes that it would do what I needed. Thankfully it knows how to handle=
 the alpha channel properly, but unfortunately the plugin imports the image=
 into a 16bit integer document and any value above 1.0 is clipped. I can't =
use the exposure adjustment to access the over bright details. Because of t=
hese import problems I have to run each image through After Effects and do =
the exposure processing there, then export an image to Photoshop.=20

Can the maintainer of the OpenEXR photoshop plugin please recompile a new v=
ersion that imports images into a 32bit document and maintain the full colo=
r range, or provide exposure controls in the plugin? Also, I could use a 64=
bit version of the plugin for the 64bit version of Photoshop.=20

Thanks,=20
Ray Collett=20

--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
--=3D=3D-- Ray Collett --=3D=3D--=20
Technical Director; Newlands & Company Inc. www.nc3d.com=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20


_______________________________________________=20
Openexr-user mailing list=20
[email protected]=20
http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/openexr-user=20






--=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20
--=3D=3D-- Ray Collett --=3D=3D--=20
Technical Director Newlands & Company Inc.=20
503.287.8000 x520 [email protected] www.nc3d.com=20
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=20

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<html><head><style type=3D'text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><=
div style=3D'font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'=
>Chris,<br>I did read the thread.&nbsp; Every message.&nbsp; I may not of a=
greed with everything I read, but I read it.&nbsp; I'm not even talking abo=
ut the pre-multiplication issue.&nbsp; I can save out an image from my 3D p=
ackage with AND without the pre-multiplication checkbox checked, and photos=
hop makes the parts of my image with zero alpha completly transparent and I=
 can not find a way around that without resorting to using another piece of=
 software.&nbsp; It's just that simple.<br><br>You say I'm making a mistake=
.&nbsp; You say I'm wanting to change existing workflows.&nbsp; The upgrade=
 from CS2 to CS3 broke our workflow.&nbsp; We used to be able to open EXRs =
and have the alpha show up as a sepperate channel and then CS3 broke that.&=
nbsp; Who's breaking workflows?&nbsp; (off topic, but CS4 broke another of =
our workflows...&nbsp; We want the File-&gt;Automate-&gt;PDF Presentation b=
ack!!!&nbsp; The PDF maker in Bridge CS4 does not cut it.)<br><br>I'm fine =
if you leave the current EXR import in CS4 as the default beheivor.&nbsp; W=
hat I want, and what a lot of other people want, is an option somewhere tha=
t changes that beheivor.&nbsp; We relize that it's not per the standard.&nb=
sp; We know that it violates your <font size=3D"4"><font face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">interpretation of how it should be.=
&nbsp; </span></font></font>But can't Photoshop be flexable enough to help =
out everyone?&nbsp; Can't there be an option burried in the Prefrences, an =
ini file, a registery flag, something that can allow us users to make Photo=
shop fit the workflow that WE decide to use, be it "right" or "wrong"?<br><=
br>I did see the mention of the super secret, NDA only work to edit the tra=
nsparency channel.&nbsp; I think that this is a good thing and I look forwa=
rd to being able to use it, but if the alpha is zero, and you have not kept=
 any of the RGB information, then it sounds like the transparency editor wi=
ll only allow us to access the RGB values for transparency values &gt; 0.0.=
&nbsp; Is this correct?<br><br>Ray<br><br>----- Original Message -----<br>F=
rom: "Chris Cox" &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>To: [email protected], "openexr-user"=
 &lt;[email protected]&gt;<br>Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 4:45:43 PM G=
MT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific<br>Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin=
 importing as RGB/16 bit<br><br>

<title>Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit</title>

<font face=3D"Myriad Pro"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Ray;<br>
<br>
Sigh. It really sounds like you didn=E2=80=99t read the thread. &nbsp;You a=
re repeating a lot of the mistakes that I kept correcting in that thread.<b=
r>
The RGB information is preserved as much as possible. &nbsp;If the file for=
mat is premultiplied, we do have to un-multiply it. If the format is not pr=
emultiplied, we preserve it <i>exactly</i> as-is. &nbsp;We cannot always pr=
eserve premultiplied file formats, or all compressed formats =E2=80=93 beca=
use the application does not work with premultiplied or compressed data.<br=
>
<br>
There were multiple changes requested in that thread =E2=80=93 many of whic=
h go against interoperability and standards. &nbsp;As explained, we have to=
 deal with many different types of users and many workflows =E2=80=94 stand=
ards exist to enable those workflows, and violating standards just hurts ev=
eryone involved. &nbsp;If you don=E2=80=99t agree with the standards and wa=
nt to see the standard changed =E2=80=94 talk to the owner of the standard.=
<br>
We are (as explained in the thread) working on solutions to the underlying =
problems (not being able to edit the transparency channel, and handling div=
ide by zero when un-multiplying).<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/5/09 4:28 PM, "<a href=3D"[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]=
</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br>
<br>
</span></font><blockquote><font size=3D"4"><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><=
span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">Chris,<br>
I have read the entire thread about this topic at the Adobe Forum (1). &nbs=
p;It's sad that Photoshop currently discards RGB data of pixels that have z=
ero opacity. &nbsp;I'm not alone (2,3) in wanting the flexibility in Photos=
hop to be able to open EXR's/PNG's/etc and have the capability to modify/re=
move the opacity/transparency of an image. &nbsp;I know for a fact that bot=
h EXR files (4,5) and PNG files (6) store RGB data when the A channel is se=
t to zero. &nbsp;I personally think that it is a poor decision on Adobe's p=
art to assume that opacity/transparency channel should be loaded into the t=
ransparency value without also providing tools to modify that value. &nbsp;=
If we had some way to paint the transparency back to 1.0 (much the same way=
 that you can paint a layers mask), then I don't think that this would be a=
n issue at all! &nbsp;In my ideal world, the EXR and PNG plugins would crea=
te an RGB layer and load the opacity/transparency data into a layer mask.<b=
r>
<br>
As far as my "confusion" between "Alpha Channels" and "Transparency/Opacity=
 Channels", I'm not a software developer. &nbsp;I'm a user of commercial so=
ftware in a professional animation firm. &nbsp;Every application that I use=
 (7) has the ability to read and/or write RGB information to every pixel of=
 an EXR/PNG image regardless the value of the alpha/transparency channel, E=
XCEPT Photoshop. &nbsp;The lack of Photoshops ability to also do this makes=
 it a little less useful to me. &nbsp;I find it amazing that in order to ed=
it some of my images in an "image editor" (aka Photoshop), that I must stri=
p the alpha channel using another application. &nbsp;Would it not make sinc=
e that Photoshop should be able to read and write any supported image forma=
t, and have the written file contain the same data as the origonal?<br>
<br>
I really appreciate your continued activity on the Adobe Forum. &nbsp;From =
my expirence with other topics/products, many embattled developers quickly =
get flustered and quit monitoring threads like that. &nbsp;On the other han=
d, I'm also amazed that you have a large number of users from major VFX/Ani=
mation firms (including a co-author of the EXR docs) asking for a change, a=
nd you're steadfastness against them in the name of your interpretation of =
technical accuracy.<br>
<br>
I really hope that Photoshop CS5 contains something that will allow us user=
s to edit images in the manner of our choosing. (no matter how wrong we are=
)<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
-Ray<br>
<br>
(1) <a href=3D"http://forums.adobe.com/thread/369637" target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://forums.adobe.com/thread/369637</a><br>
(2) <a href=3D"http://forums.adobe.com/message/1536084#1536084" target=3D"_=
blank">http://forums.adobe.com/message/1536084#1536084</a><br>
(3) <a href=3D"http://forums.adobe.com/message/1536077#1536077" target=3D"_=
blank">http://forums.adobe.com/message/1536077#1536077</a><br>
(4) <a href=3D"http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/OpenEXR-images/ScanLines/=
PrismsLenses.exr?root=3Dopenexr&amp;view=3Dlog" target=3D"_blank">http://cv=
s.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/OpenEXR-images/ScanLines/PrismsLenses.exr?root=3D=
openexr&amp;view=3Dlog</a> <br>
(5) <a href=3D"http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/OpenEXR-images/ScanLines/=
CandleGlass.exr?root=3Dopenexr&amp;view=3Dlog" target=3D"_blank">http://cvs=
.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/OpenEXR-images/ScanLines/CandleGlass.exr?root=3Dop=
enexr&amp;view=3Dlog</a><br>
(6) <a href=3D"http://www.nc3d.com/temp/PNG_With_Alpha_Sample.png" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.nc3d.com/temp/PNG_With_Alpha_Sample.png</a><br>
(7) 3D Studio Max, Lightwave, SoftImage, VRay, After Effects, Combustion<br=
>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Chris Cox" &lt;<a href=3D"[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">ccox@ado=
be.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: <a href=3D"[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>, "openexr-u=
ser" &lt;<a href=3D"[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">openexr-user=
@nongnu.org</a>&gt;<br>
Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 3:00:55 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific<br>
Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit<br>
<br>
Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit </span></font><=
/font><font face=3D"Myriad Pro"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Again, Pho=
toshop is a straight color application =E2=80=93 there is no such thing as =
color values when the opacity is zero.<br>
<br>
PNG is also well defined in it=E2=80=99s behavior =E2=80=93 and behaves exa=
ctly as the file format specification says it must.<br>
TIFF can support alpha channels (which can contain anything) AND transparen=
cy/opacity channels. &nbsp;It sounds like you have these confused.<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
&nbsp;<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/5/09 10:14 AM, "<a href=3D"[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]=
m</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; =
wrote:<br>
<br>
</span></font><blockquote><font size=3D"4"><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><=
span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">Hi Chris,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;Maybe I didn't explain this well enough. &nbsp;There really is =
a couple of issues here. &nbsp;So to explain further, I have an EXR file re=
ndered out of 3DStudio in a HDR scene. &nbsp;The scene is a landscape with =
buildings, hills, and a sky. &nbsp;The hills and buildings have an alpha of=
 1.0, the sky has an alpha of 0.0. &nbsp;The RGB information is not limited=
 to a 0.0 - 1.0 range... &nbsp;there are some color values that go up into =
the 5.0-8.0 range (for example bright reflections on the windows, and the c=
olor of the clouds in the sky).<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;If I use the default EXR plugin in CS4 it creates an RGB/32 doc=
ument, but the sky comes in 100% transparent. &nbsp;This is great if I don'=
t need the sky, but there is color data for the sky in the EXR file. &nbsp;=
The sky is blue and there are white clouds. &nbsp;In After Effects I can al=
ter the way it deals with the alpha, and I have the choice to ignore the al=
pha if I so choose. In Photoshop there are no options to do this. &nbsp;The=
 EXR plugin is not the only one that does this. &nbsp;The PNG plugin for ex=
ample also discards all color data where the alpha is 0.0. &nbsp;The TIFF p=
lugin on the other hand puts the alpha information into a sepperate channel=
. &nbsp;I can then choose to use that alpha however I wish. &nbsp;Sometimes=
 it's nice to have the alpha pre-composited with the RGB data the way the P=
NG/EXR plugin works, but it would also be nice to have an option somewhere =
that modifies how Photoshop deals with alpha in an image. &nbsp;I would lov=
e an option in the main program settings that globally modified how all ima=
ge importers dealt with the Alpha.<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;Now if I use the plugin on the OpenEXR website, it brings up a =
dialog where I can choose to Un-Premultiply, I can change the Gamma, and I =
can alter the Exposure. &nbsp;It also places the alpha into a sepperate cha=
nnel like the way the TIFF plugin works. &nbsp;I can see my sky and I have =
my alpha in a sepperate channel so that I can do with it what I please. &nb=
sp;The two problems I have with this plugin is that; 1) It creates an RGB/1=
6 document instead of a RGB/32 which clamps the RGB values and leaves me st=
uck with the gamma/exposure settings I selected during import, and 2) There=
 is no 64bit version of the plugin.<br>
<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;To recap, the default EXR plugin needs a user control for how i=
t deals with the alpha, and the OpenEXR plugin needs to open the image as a=
 RGB/32 so that it does not clamp the color values.<br>
<br>
I hope this posting is more clear.<br>
<br>
-Ray<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----<br>
From: "Chris Cox" &lt;<a href=3D"[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">ccox@ado=
be.com</a>&gt;<br>
To: <a href=3D"[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>, <a href=3D=
"[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br>
Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:37:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific<br>
Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit<br>
<br>
Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit </span></font><=
/font><font face=3D"Myriad Pro"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt;">Ray;<br>
<br>
Photoshop is a straight color application, and OpenEXR is defined as being =
premultiplied. &nbsp;This means that OpenEXR data has to be un-multiplied b=
y the transparency/opacity values to work in Photoshop. &nbsp;To a straight=
 color application, there is no meaning to color values when the opacity is=
 zero. &nbsp;If the opacity is non-zero, then the color values are there - =
&nbsp;just un-multiplied so they will composite correctly.<br>
<br>
Photoshop already handles the EXR =E2=80=9CA=E2=80=9D channel (defined in t=
he spec as opacity/transparency data) correctly =E2=80=93 it opens it as op=
acity/transparency.<br>
What the Photoshop EXR plugin does not do is give you a way to open the tra=
nsparency channel as an arbitrary alpha channel, or to open channels other =
than RGBA.<br>
<br>
I=E2=80=99m sorry I don=E2=80=99t have a solution for you, but your post so=
unded like you were confused about the terminology and what was happening t=
o your data (enough so that I still don=E2=80=99t know what=E2=80=99s not w=
orking for you with the Photoshop EXR plugin).<br>
<br>
Chris<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 6/4/09 4:23 PM, "<a href=3D"[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]=
</a>" &lt;<a href=3D"[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; w=
rote:<br>
<br>
</span></font><blockquote><font face=3D"Myriad Pro"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e: 10pt;">I'm working on a project that is rendering 32bit floating bit EXR=
 files out of 3DStudio. &nbsp;I'm then compiling these frames in After Effe=
cts in a 32 bit floating point composite and it's all working fine. &nbsp;T=
he problem I'm having is that I also need to composite some scenes in Photo=
shop CS4, and the default Photoshop EXR plugin is tossing out any data from=
 the image that has a transparent alpha. &nbsp;I found the Photoshop plugin=
 on the OpenEXR website and had hopes that it would do what I needed. &nbsp=
;Thankfully it knows how to handle the alpha channel properly, but unfortun=
ately the plugin imports the image into a 16bit integer document and any va=
lue above 1.0 is clipped. &nbsp;I can't use the exposure adjustment to acce=
ss the over bright details. &nbsp;Because of these import problems I have t=
o run each image through After Effects and do the exposure processing there=
, then export an image to Photoshop.<br>
<br>
Can the maintainer of the OpenEXR photoshop plugin please recompile a new v=
ersion that imports images into a 32bit document and maintain the full colo=
r range, or provide exposure controls in the plugin? &nbsp;Also, I could us=
e a 64bit version of the plugin for the 64bit version of Photoshop.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;Ray Collett<br>
<br>
--<br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
--=3D=3D-- &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Ray Collett &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;--=3D=3D--<br>
Technical Director; Newlands &amp; Company Inc. www.nc3d.com<br>
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Openexr-user mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]=
rg</a><br>
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"_blank">http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/openexr-user</a><br>
<br>
</span></font></blockquote><font size=3D"4"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=
<span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></font></font><font face=3D"Myriad Pro"><span style=3D"font-size: 10=
pt;"><br>
</span></font></blockquote><font size=3D"4"><font face=3D"Times New Roman">=
<span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br>
</span></font></font></blockquote>
<br><br>-- <br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
<br>--=3D=3D-- &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ray Collett &nbsp; &nbsp;=
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --=3D=3D--<br>Technical Director &nbsp; &nbsp;Newland=
s &amp; Company Inc.<br>503.287.8000 x520 &nbsp;[email protected] &nbsp;www.nc3d=
.com<br>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br></=
div></body></html>
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