Re: Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit
Chris Cox <[email protected]> Tue, 16 Jun 2009 12:43:24 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.video.openexr.user |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <C65D43EC.8088C%[email protected]> |
--===============1638712262== Content-Language: en Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_C65D43EC8088Cccoxadobecom_" --_000_C65D43EC8088Cccoxadobecom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ray; Please understand - when the opacity is zero, the image is supposed to be c= ompletely transparent -- that's what zero opacity means. So you're telling= me that Photoshop is working entirely correctly, but somehow you don't und= erstand that? I'm trying to help you understand. It still sounds like so= mewhere you misunderstood some basic concepts. The user forum thread clearly explains why things changed from CS2 to CS3, = and why CS3/CS4 behavior is correct. The thread also explains that the fi= le format spec. says that the data has one correct interpretation. (yeah, I don't like the bridge PDF presentation myself - but can't do anyth= ing about it.) Maybe we can add a switch to let you interpret the data any way you want. = But then what happens to interoperability? When you had that file off, how= will anyone know what you mean the data to represent? If you throw away t= he standard that defines what the data means, you will either need addition= al information to define the meaning of the file data, or you have a confus= ed mess. We really don't need more messes. We've seen what happens when p= eople ignore standards and trying to reinterpret data in ways that weren't = intended. We really don't want to go that route again. Even hidden switches lead to interop problems (esp. when someone forgets t= o change it on one machine). If we add a switch, it's going to have to be = very up front, on file open and save. "if the alpha is zero, and you have not kept any of the RGB information, th= en it sounds like the transparency editor will only allow us to access the = RGB values for transparency values > 0.0. Is this correct?" No. If the opacity is zero, the color information is still there, just tra= nsparent. Currently it may be removed because the de-multiplication doesn'= t like division by zero, but I'm trying to resolve that. And it still may = not be what you expect. Chris On 6/5/09 7:26 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: Chris, I did read the thread. Every message. I may not of agreed with everything= I read, but I read it. I'm not even talking about the pre-multiplication = issue. I can save out an image from my 3D package with AND without the pre= -multiplication checkbox checked, and photoshop makes the parts of my image= with zero alpha completly transparent and I can not find a way around that= without resorting to using another piece of software. It's just that simp= le. You say I'm making a mistake. You say I'm wanting to change existing workf= lows. The upgrade from CS2 to CS3 broke our workflow. We used to be able = to open EXRs and have the alpha show up as a sepperate channel and then CS3= broke that. Who's breaking workflows? (off topic, but CS4 broke another = of our workflows... We want the File->Automate->PDF Presentation back!!! = The PDF maker in Bridge CS4 does not cut it.) I'm fine if you leave the current EXR import in CS4 as the default beheivor= . What I want, and what a lot of other people want, is an option somewhere= that changes that beheivor. We relize that it's not per the standard. We= know that it violates your interpretation of how it should be. But can't = Photoshop be flexable enough to help out everyone? Can't there be an optio= n burried in the Prefrences, an ini file, a registery flag, something that = can allow us users to make Photoshop fit the workflow that WE decide to use= , be it "right" or "wrong"? I did see the mention of the super secret, NDA only work to edit the transp= arency channel. I think that this is a good thing and I look forward to be= ing able to use it, but if the alpha is zero, and you have not kept any of = the RGB information, then it sounds like the transparency editor will only = allow us to access the RGB values for transparency values > 0.0. Is this c= orrect? Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Cox" <[email protected]> To: [email protected], "openexr-user" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 4:45:43 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit Ray; Sigh. It really sounds like you didn't read the thread. You are repeating = a lot of the mistakes that I kept correcting in that thread. The RGB information is preserved as much as possible. If the file format i= s premultiplied, we do have to un-multiply it. If the format is not premult= iplied, we preserve it exactly as-is. We cannot always preserve premultipl= ied file formats, or all compressed formats - because the application does = not work with premultiplied or compressed data. There were multiple changes requested in that thread - many of which go aga= inst interoperability and standards. As explained, we have to deal with ma= ny different types of users and many workflows - standards exist to enable = those workflows, and violating standards just hurts everyone involved. If = you don't agree with the standards and want to see the standard changed - t= alk to the owner of the standard. We are (as explained in the thread) working on solutions to the underlying = problems (not being able to edit the transparency channel, and handling div= ide by zero when un-multiplying). Chris On 6/5/09 4:28 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: Chris, I have read the entire thread about this topic at the Adobe Forum (1). It'= s sad that Photoshop currently discards RGB data of pixels that have zero o= pacity. I'm not alone (2,3) in wanting the flexibility in Photoshop to be = able to open EXR's/PNG's/etc and have the capability to modify/remove the o= pacity/transparency of an image. I know for a fact that both EXR files (4,= 5) and PNG files (6) store RGB data when the A channel is set to zero. I p= ersonally think that it is a poor decision on Adobe's part to assume that o= pacity/transparency channel should be loaded into the transparency value wi= thout also providing tools to modify that value. If we had some way to pai= nt the transparency back to 1.0 (much the same way that you can paint a lay= ers mask), then I don't think that this would be an issue at all! In my id= eal world, the EXR and PNG plugins would create an RGB layer and load the o= pacity/transparency data into a layer mask. As far as my "confusion" between "Alpha Channels" and "Transparency/Opacity= Channels", I'm not a software developer. I'm a user of commercial softwar= e in a professional animation firm. Every application that I use (7) has t= he ability to read and/or write RGB information to every pixel of an EXR/PN= G image regardless the value of the alpha/transparency channel, EXCEPT Phot= oshop. The lack of Photoshops ability to also do this makes it a little le= ss useful to me. I find it amazing that in order to edit some of my images= in an "image editor" (aka Photoshop), that I must strip the alpha channel = using another application. Would it not make since that Photoshop should b= e able to read and write any supported image format, and have the written f= ile contain the same data as the origonal? I really appreciate your continued activity on the Adobe Forum. From my ex= pirence with other topics/products, many embattled developers quickly get f= lustered and quit monitoring threads like that. On the other hand, I'm als= o amazed that you have a large number of users from major VFX/Animation fir= ms (including a co-author of the EXR docs) asking for a change, and you're = steadfastness against them in the name of your interpretation of technical = accuracy. I really hope that Photoshop CS5 contains something that will allow us user= s to edit images in the manner of our choosing. (no matter how wrong we are= ) Thanks! -Ray (1) http://forums.adobe.com/thread/369637 (2) http://forums.adobe.com/message/1536084#1536084 (3) http://forums.adobe.com/message/1536077#1536077 (4) http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/OpenEXR-images/ScanLines/PrismsLense= s.exr?root=3Dopenexr&view=3Dlog (5) http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/OpenEXR-images/ScanLines/CandleGlass= .exr?root=3Dopenexr&view=3Dlog (6) http://www.nc3d.com/temp/PNG_With_Alpha_Sample.png (7) 3D Studio Max, Lightwave, SoftImage, VRay, After Effects, Combustion ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Cox" <[email protected]> To: [email protected], "openexr-user" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 3:00:55 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit Again, Photosho= p is a straight color application - there is no such thing as color values = when the opacity is zero. PNG is also well defined in it's behavior - and behaves exactly as the file= format specification says it must. TIFF can support alpha channels (which can contain anything) AND transparen= cy/opacity channels. It sounds like you have these confused. Chris On 6/5/09 10:14 AM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Chris, Maybe I didn't explain this well enough. There really is a couple of iss= ues here. So to explain further, I have an EXR file rendered out of 3DStud= io in a HDR scene. The scene is a landscape with buildings, hills, and a s= ky. The hills and buildings have an alpha of 1.0, the sky has an alpha of = 0.0. The RGB information is not limited to a 0.0 - 1.0 range... there are= some color values that go up into the 5.0-8.0 range (for example bright re= flections on the windows, and the color of the clouds in the sky). If I use the default EXR plugin in CS4 it creates an RGB/32 document, but= the sky comes in 100% transparent. This is great if I don't need the sky,= but there is color data for the sky in the EXR file. The sky is blue and = there are white clouds. In After Effects I can alter the way it deals with= the alpha, and I have the choice to ignore the alpha if I so choose. In Ph= otoshop there are no options to do this. The EXR plugin is not the only on= e that does this. The PNG plugin for example also discards all color data = where the alpha is 0.0. The TIFF plugin on the other hand puts the alpha i= nformation into a sepperate channel. I can then choose to use that alpha h= owever I wish. Sometimes it's nice to have the alpha pre-composited with t= he RGB data the way the PNG/EXR plugin works, but it would also be nice to = have an option somewhere that modifies how Photoshop deals with alpha in an= image. I would love an option in the main program settings that globally = modified how all image importers dealt with the Alpha. Now if I use the plugin on the OpenEXR website, it brings up a dialog whe= re I can choose to Un-Premultiply, I can change the Gamma, and I can alter = the Exposure. It also places the alpha into a sepperate channel like the w= ay the TIFF plugin works. I can see my sky and I have my alpha in a sepper= ate channel so that I can do with it what I please. The two problems I hav= e with this plugin is that; 1) It creates an RGB/16 document instead of a R= GB/32 which clamps the RGB values and leaves me stuck with the gamma/exposu= re settings I selected during import, and 2) There is no 64bit version of t= he plugin. To recap, the default EXR plugin needs a user control for how it deals wi= th the alpha, and the OpenEXR plugin needs to open the image as a RGB/32 so= that it does not clamp the color values. I hope this posting is more clear. -Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Cox" <[email protected]> To: [email protected], [email protected] Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:37:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit Ray; Photoshop is a straight color application, and OpenEXR is defined as being = premultiplied. This means that OpenEXR data has to be un-multiplied by the= transparency/opacity values to work in Photoshop. To a straight color app= lication, there is no meaning to color values when the opacity is zero. If= the opacity is non-zero, then the color values are there - just un-multip= lied so they will composite correctly. Photoshop already handles the EXR "A" channel (defined in the spec as opaci= ty/transparency data) correctly - it opens it as opacity/transparency. What the Photoshop EXR plugin does not do is give you a way to open the tra= nsparency channel as an arbitrary alpha channel, or to open channels other = than RGBA. I'm sorry I don't have a solution for you, but your post sounded like you w= ere confused about the terminology and what was happening to your data (eno= ugh so that I still don't know what's not working for you with the Photosho= p EXR plugin). Chris On 6/4/09 4:23 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: I'm working on a project that is rendering 32bit floating bit EXR files out= of 3DStudio. I'm then compiling these frames in After Effects in a 32 bit= floating point composite and it's all working fine. The problem I'm havin= g is that I also need to composite some scenes in Photoshop CS4, and the de= fault Photoshop EXR plugin is tossing out any data from the image that has = a transparent alpha. I found the Photoshop plugin on the OpenEXR website a= nd had hopes that it would do what I needed. Thankfully it knows how to ha= ndle the alpha channel properly, but unfortunately the plugin imports the i= mage into a 16bit integer document and any value above 1.0 is clipped. I c= an't use the exposure adjustment to access the over bright details. Becaus= e of these import problems I have to run each image through After Effects a= nd do the exposure processing there, then export an image to Photoshop. Can the maintainer of the OpenEXR photoshop plugin please recompile a new v= ersion that imports images into a 32bit document and maintain the full colo= r range, or provide exposure controls in the plugin? Also, I could use a 6= 4bit version of the plugin for the 64bit version of Photoshop. Thanks, Ray Collett -- =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --=3D=3D-- Ray Collett --=3D=3D-- Technical Director; Newlands & Company Inc. www.nc3d.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D _______________________________________________ Openexr-user mailing list [email protected] http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/openexr-user --_000_C65D43EC8088Cccoxadobecom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D"Myriad Pro"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10pt'>Ray;<BR> <BR> Please understand – when the opacity is zero, the image is supposed t= o be completely transparent -- that’s what zero opacity means. = So you’re telling me that Photoshop is working entirely correctly, bu= t somehow you don’t understand that? I’m trying to = help you understand. It still sounds like somewhere you misunderstood= some basic concepts.<BR> <BR> The user forum thread clearly explains why things changed from CS2 to CS3, = and why CS3/CS4 behavior is correct. The thread also explains t= hat the file format spec. says that the data has one correct interpretation= .<BR> <BR> (yeah, I don’t like the bridge PDF presentation myself – but ca= n’t do anything about it.)<BR> <BR> Maybe we can add a switch to let you interpret the data any way you want. &= nbsp;But then what happens to interoperability? When you had that fil= e off, how will anyone know what you mean the data to represent? If y= ou throw away the standard that defines what the data means, you will eithe= r need additional information to define the meaning of the file data, or yo= u have a confused mess. We really don’t need more messes.  = ;We’ve seen what happens when people ignore standards and trying to r= einterpret data in ways that weren’t intended. We really don= 217;t want to go that route again. <BR> Even hidden switches lead to interop problems (esp. when someone forg= ets to change it on one machine). If we add a switch, it’s goin= g to have to be very up front, on file open and save.<BR> <BR> <BR> “</SPAN></FONT><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><FONT FACE=3D"Times New Roman"><SPAN = STYLE=3D'font-size:12pt'>if the alpha is zero, and you have not kept any of= the RGB information, then it sounds like the transparency editor will only= allow us to access the RGB values for transparency values > 0.0. = Is this correct?”<BR> No. If the opacity is zero, the color information is still there, jus= t transparent. Currently it may be removed because the de-multiplicat= ion doesn’t like division by zero, but I’m trying to resolve th= at. And it still may not be what you expect.<BR> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Myriad Pro"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10p= t'><BR> <BR> Chris<BR> <BR> <BR> On 6/5/09 7:26 PM, "<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>" &l= t;<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<BR> <BR> </SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><FONT FACE=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12pt'>Chris,<BR> I did read the thread. Every message. I may not of agreed with = everything I read, but I read it. I'm not even talking about the pre-= multiplication issue. I can save out an image from my 3D package with= AND without the pre-multiplication checkbox checked, and photoshop makes t= he parts of my image with zero alpha completly transparent and I can not fi= nd a way around that without resorting to using another piece of software. = It's just that simple.<BR> <BR> You say I'm making a mistake. You say I'm wanting to change existing = workflows. The upgrade from CS2 to CS3 broke our workflow. We u= sed to be able to open EXRs and have the alpha show up as a sepperate chann= el and then CS3 broke that. Who's breaking workflows? (off topi= c, but CS4 broke another of our workflows... We want the File->Aut= omate->PDF Presentation back!!! The PDF maker in Bridge CS4 does n= ot cut it.)<BR> <BR> I'm fine if you leave the current EXR import in CS4 as the default beheivor= . What I want, and what a lot of other people want, is an option some= where that changes that beheivor. We relize that it's not per the sta= ndard. We know that it violates your interpretation of how it should = be. But can't Photoshop be flexable enough to help out everyone? &nbs= p;Can't there be an option burried in the Prefrences, an ini file, a regist= ery flag, something that can allow us users to make Photoshop fit the workf= low that WE decide to use, be it "right" or "wrong"?<BR= > <BR> I did see the mention of the super secret, NDA only work to edit the transp= arency channel. I think that this is a good thing and I look forward = to being able to use it, but if the alpha is zero, and you have not kept an= y of the RGB information, then it sounds like the transparency editor will = only allow us to access the RGB values for transparency values > 0.0. &n= bsp;Is this correct?<BR> <BR> Ray<BR> <BR> ----- Original Message -----<BR> From: "Chris Cox" <<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</= a>><BR> To: <a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>, "openexr-user" <= ;<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>><BR> Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 4:45:43 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific<BR> Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit<BR> <BR> Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit </SPAN></FONT><= /FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Myriad Pro"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10pt'>Ray;<BR> <BR> Sigh. It really sounds like you didn’t read the thread. You are= repeating a lot of the mistakes that I kept correcting in that thread.<BR> The RGB information is preserved as much as possible. If the file for= mat is premultiplied, we do have to un-multiply it. If the format is not pr= emultiplied, we preserve it <I>exactly</I> as-is. We cannot always pr= eserve premultiplied file formats, or all compressed formats – becaus= e the application does not work with premultiplied or compressed data.<BR> <BR> There were multiple changes requested in that thread – many of which = go against interoperability and standards. As explained, we have to d= eal with many different types of users and many workflows — standards= exist to enable those workflows, and violating standards just hurts everyo= ne involved. If you don’t agree with the standards and want to = see the standard changed — talk to the owner of the standard.<BR> We are (as explained in the thread) working on solutions to the underlying = problems (not being able to edit the transparency channel, and handling div= ide by zero when un-multiplying).<BR> <BR> Chris<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> On 6/5/09 4:28 PM, "<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>" &l= t;<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<BR> <BR> </SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><FONT FACE=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12pt'>Chris,<BR> I have read the entire thread about this topic at the Adobe Forum (1). &nbs= p;It's sad that Photoshop currently discards RGB data of pixels that have z= ero opacity. I'm not alone (2,3) in wanting the flexibility in Photos= hop to be able to open EXR's/PNG's/etc and have the capability to modify/re= move the opacity/transparency of an image. I know for a fact that bot= h EXR files (4,5) and PNG files (6) store RGB data when the A channel is se= t to zero. I personally think that it is a poor decision on Adobe's p= art to assume that opacity/transparency channel should be loaded into the t= ransparency value without also providing tools to modify that value. = If we had some way to paint the transparency back to 1.0 (much the same way= that you can paint a layers mask), then I don't think that this would be a= n issue at all! In my ideal world, the EXR and PNG plugins would crea= te an RGB layer and load the opacity/transparency data into a layer mask.<B= R> <BR> As far as my "confusion" between "Alpha Channels" and &= quot;Transparency/Opacity Channels", I'm not a software developer. &nb= sp;I'm a user of commercial software in a professional animation firm. &nbs= p;Every application that I use (7) has the ability to read and/or write RGB= information to every pixel of an EXR/PNG image regardless the value of the= alpha/transparency channel, EXCEPT Photoshop. The lack of Photoshops= ability to also do this makes it a little less useful to me. I find = it amazing that in order to edit some of my images in an "image editor= " (aka Photoshop), that I must strip the alpha channel using another a= pplication. Would it not make since that Photoshop should be able to = read and write any supported image format, and have the written file contai= n the same data as the origonal?<BR> <BR> I really appreciate your continued activity on the Adobe Forum. From = my expirence with other topics/products, many embattled developers quickly = get flustered and quit monitoring threads like that. On the other han= d, I'm also amazed that you have a large number of users from major VFX/Ani= mation firms (including a co-author of the EXR docs) asking for a change, a= nd you're steadfastness against them in the name of your interpretation of = technical accuracy.<BR> <BR> I really hope that Photoshop CS5 contains something that will allow us user= s to edit images in the manner of our choosing. (no matter how wrong we are= )<BR> <BR> Thanks!<BR> -Ray<BR> <BR> (1) <a href=3D"http://forums.adobe.com/thread/369637">http://forums.adobe.c= om/thread/369637</a><BR> (2) <a href=3D"http://forums.adobe.com/message/1536084#1536084">http://foru= ms.adobe.com/message/1536084#1536084</a><BR> (3) <a href=3D"http://forums.adobe.com/message/1536077#1536077">http://foru= ms.adobe.com/message/1536077#1536077</a><BR> (4) <a href=3D"http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/OpenEXR-images/ScanLines/= PrismsLenses.exr?root=3Dopenexr&view=3Dlog">http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org= /viewvc/OpenEXR-images/ScanLines/PrismsLenses.exr?root=3Dopenexr&view= =3Dlog</a> <BR> (5) <a href=3D"http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/viewvc/OpenEXR-images/ScanLines/= CandleGlass.exr?root=3Dopenexr&view=3Dlog">http://cvs.savannah.gnu.org/= viewvc/OpenEXR-images/ScanLines/CandleGlass.exr?root=3Dopenexr&view=3Dl= og</a><BR> (6) <a href=3D"http://www.nc3d.com/temp/PNG_With_Alpha_Sample.png">http://w= ww.nc3d.com/temp/PNG_With_Alpha_Sample.png</a><BR> (7) 3D Studio Max, Lightwave, SoftImage, VRay, After Effects, Combustion<BR= > <BR> ----- Original Message -----<BR> From: "Chris Cox" <<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</= a>><BR> To: <a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>, "openexr-user" <= ;<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>><BR> Sent: Friday, June 5, 2009 3:00:55 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific<BR> Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit<BR> <BR> Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit </SPAN></FONT><= /FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Myriad Pro"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10pt'>Again, Photo= shop is a straight color application – there is no such thing as colo= r values when the opacity is zero.<BR> <BR> PNG is also well defined in it’s behavior – and behaves exactly= as the file format specification says it must.<BR> TIFF can support alpha channels (which can contain anything) AND transparen= cy/opacity channels. It sounds like you have these confused.<BR> <BR> Chris<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> On 6/5/09 10:14 AM, "<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>" &= lt;<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<BR> <BR> </SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><FONT FACE=3D"Times New Roman"><= SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12pt'>Hi Chris,<BR> Maybe I didn't explain this well enough. There really is = a couple of issues here. So to explain further, I have an EXR file re= ndered out of 3DStudio in a HDR scene. The scene is a landscape with = buildings, hills, and a sky. The hills and buildings have an alpha of= 1.0, the sky has an alpha of 0.0. The RGB information is not limited= to a 0.0 - 1.0 range... there are some color values that go up into = the 5.0-8.0 range (for example bright reflections on the windows, and the c= olor of the clouds in the sky).<BR> <BR> If I use the default EXR plugin in CS4 it creates an RGB/32 doc= ument, but the sky comes in 100% transparent. This is great if I don'= t need the sky, but there is color data for the sky in the EXR file. = The sky is blue and there are white clouds. In After Effects I can al= ter the way it deals with the alpha, and I have the choice to ignore the al= pha if I so choose. In Photoshop there are no options to do this. The= EXR plugin is not the only one that does this. The PNG plugin for ex= ample also discards all color data where the alpha is 0.0. The TIFF p= lugin on the other hand puts the alpha information into a sepperate channel= . I can then choose to use that alpha however I wish. Sometimes= it's nice to have the alpha pre-composited with the RGB data the way the P= NG/EXR plugin works, but it would also be nice to have an option somewhere = that modifies how Photoshop deals with alpha in an image. I would lov= e an option in the main program settings that globally modified how all ima= ge importers dealt with the Alpha.<BR> <BR> Now if I use the plugin on the OpenEXR website, it brings up a = dialog where I can choose to Un-Premultiply, I can change the Gamma, and I = can alter the Exposure. It also places the alpha into a sepperate cha= nnel like the way the TIFF plugin works. I can see my sky and I have = my alpha in a sepperate channel so that I can do with it what I please. &nb= sp;The two problems I have with this plugin is that; 1) It creates an RGB/1= 6 document instead of a RGB/32 which clamps the RGB values and leaves me st= uck with the gamma/exposure settings I selected during import, and 2) There= is no 64bit version of the plugin.<BR> <BR> To recap, the default EXR plugin needs a user control for how i= t deals with the alpha, and the OpenEXR plugin needs to open the image as a= RGB/32 so that it does not clamp the color values.<BR> <BR> I hope this posting is more clear.<BR> <BR> -Ray<BR> <BR> ----- Original Message -----<BR> From: "Chris Cox" <<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</= a>><BR> To: <a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>, <a href=3D"openexr-user@nong= nu.org">[email protected]</a><BR> Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2009 6:37:24 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific<BR> Subject: Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit<BR> <BR> Re: [Openexr-user] Photoshop Plugin importing as RGB/16 bit </SPAN></FONT><= /FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Myriad Pro"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10pt'>Ray;<BR> <BR> Photoshop is a straight color application, and OpenEXR is defined as being = premultiplied. This means that OpenEXR data has to be un-multiplied b= y the transparency/opacity values to work in Photoshop. To a straight= color application, there is no meaning to color values when the opacity is= zero. If the opacity is non-zero, then the color values are there - = just un-multiplied so they will composite correctly.<BR> <BR> Photoshop already handles the EXR “A” channel (defined in the s= pec as opacity/transparency data) correctly – it opens it as opacity/= transparency.<BR> What the Photoshop EXR plugin does not do is give you a way to open the tra= nsparency channel as an arbitrary alpha channel, or to open channels other = than RGBA.<BR> <BR> I’m sorry I don’t have a solution for you, but your post sounde= d like you were confused about the terminology and what was happening to yo= ur data (enough so that I still don’t know what’s not working f= or you with the Photoshop EXR plugin).<BR> <BR> Chris<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> On 6/4/09 4:23 PM, "<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>" &l= t;<a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<BR> <BR> </SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Myriad Pro"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-siz= e:10pt'>I'm working on a project that is rendering 32bit floating bit EXR f= iles out of 3DStudio. I'm then compiling these frames in After Effect= s in a 32 bit floating point composite and it's all working fine. The= problem I'm having is that I also need to composite some scenes in Photosh= op CS4, and the default Photoshop EXR plugin is tossing out any data from t= he image that has a transparent alpha. I found the Photoshop plugin o= n the OpenEXR website and had hopes that it would do what I needed. T= hankfully it knows how to handle the alpha channel properly, but unfortunat= ely the plugin imports the image into a 16bit integer document and any valu= e above 1.0 is clipped. I can't use the exposure adjustment to access= the over bright details. Because of these import problems I have to = run each image through After Effects and do the exposure processing there, = then export an image to Photoshop.<BR> <BR> Can the maintainer of the OpenEXR photoshop plugin please recompile a new v= ersion that imports images into a 32bit document and maintain the full colo= r range, or provide exposure controls in the plugin? Also, I could us= e a 64bit version of the plugin for the 64bit version of Photoshop.<BR> <BR> Thanks,<BR> Ray Collett<BR> <BR> --<BR> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR> --=3D=3D-- &nbs= p; Ray Collett &= nbsp; --=3D=3D--<BR> Technical Director; Newlands & Company Inc. www.nc3d.com<BR> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<BR> <BR> <BR> _______________________________________________<BR> Openexr-user mailing list<BR> <a href=3D"[email protected]">[email protected]</a><BR> <a href=3D"http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/openexr-user">http://li= sts.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/openexr-user</a><BR> <BR> </SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><FONT FACE=3D"Times New Roman">= <SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12pt'><BR> </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Myriad Pro"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:10p= t'><BR> </SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><FONT FACE=3D"Times New Roman">= <SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12pt'><BR> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"4"><FONT FACE=3D"Times New = Roman"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12pt'><BR> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> </BODY> </HTML> --_000_C65D43EC8088Cccoxadobecom_-- --===============1638712262== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Openexr-user mailing list [email protected] http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/openexr-user --===============1638712262==--