RE: When will the next release be posted?

Jean N Koster <[email protected]> Tue, 9 Apr 2013 10:47:23 -0600
Newsgroups gmane.comp.web.amaya.general
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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Please remove my name/email from the distribution listthank you
Jean koster

From: HiddenId [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 10:40 AM
To: Fr=E9d=E9ric WANG; laurent carcone
Cc: Stanimir Stamenkov; [email protected]; Steven Pemberton; alfredovogel@gm=
ail.com
Subject: Re: When will the next release be posted?

Hello all,
I'm not coder but I'm one of the happy Amaya users group.
The only thing I can do is to encourage you.
It will be so unbelievably great if all of what you mentionned could be don=
e.
Again, from my point of you, Amaya is my preferred html /css editor.
Anyway again, thanks a lot to Irene, Vincent, Laurent, W3C, Inra and any el=
se for the big job done and this very useful tool !!!
So freely,
Antoine

________________________________
De : Fr=E9d=E9ric WANG <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
=C0 : laurent carcone <[email protected]<mailto:laurent.carcone@ora=
nge.fr>>
Cc : Stanimir Stamenkov <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; =
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>; Steven Pemberton <Steven.Pembert=
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected]<mailto:a=
[email protected]>
Envoy=E9 le : Mardi 9 avril 2013 13h15
Objet : Re: When will the next release be posted?


On 09/04/2013 11:54, laurent carcone wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Indeed, there are no internal developments on Amaya currently. Irene and =
Vincent retired and both W3C and Inria stopped their involvment in the proj=
ect. I work partial time at W3C but I have no assignment to work on new dev=
elopments.
> Amaya has always been an open source project and I created a github repos=
itory [1] to get a broader audience.
> Some works have been done recently on HTML5 support, I hope to be able to=
 integrate them and create a specific snapshot.
> But Amaya is a very complex project, used for both production and researc=
h purposes.
> As Stanimir said, the main problem is the rendering engine. Amaya uses it=
's own engine which is the most complex (and biggest) part of the code. I d=
on't know this part very well and it would require a huge work to be able t=
o maintain it. There was a project two years ago to work on the separation =
of the editor part and the rendering part and use Gecko for that, unfortuna=
tely this project didn't succeed.
> To my point of view, this separation is essential if we want Amaya contin=
ue to evolve, but as I said, it would require a lot of time. I can help on =
some points but cannot lead.
> Nevertheless, I'd like to see a first support of HTML5 on Amaya and I thi=
nk it's possible with the work that has been done on it.
>
> Regards,
> Laurent
>
> [1] https://github.com/W3C/Amaya

Hi all,

Gecko C++ code has a rendering engine but also a core editor (the one used =
for example by Thunderbird or by the "contenteditable" implementation. See =
http://html5demos.com/contenteditable). This editor gives basic features li=
ke cursor navigation, entering text, selection, copy and paste etc Addition=
ally, some projects (Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, KompoZer, BlueGriffon) add a u=
ser interface for more advanced operations like inserting an image, a link =
etc At the moment, it seems that there are not a lot of developments in the=
 core editor, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey or KompoZer (because mostly done by vo=
lunteers) while BlueGriffon is actively developed by Daniel Glazman (but so=
me of the features are proprietary extensions). I think Fabien Cazenave wan=
ted to modify the Mozilla source to easily build a standalone editor (https=
://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D477845) and that he is willing to=
 continue his KompoZer editor. I also believed he was hired by Mozilla to w=
ork on the editor at some point. However, I think he now works essentially =
on the B2G project (I think during a period he also worked at WAM, is relat=
ed to the effort you are mentioning?)

So I'm wondering if Amaya should go further than just use the rendering eng=
ine by Gecko and also consider using its core editor. I did some experiment=
s a long time ago and that seemed to work, I was able to get a program with=
 the same UI as Amaya, that uses Gecko's layout engine and the core editor =
(I still have the code, but haven't tried to compile it with recent version=
 of Gecko). But it remains to reimplement the whole Amaya UI (save menu, cs=
s editor, HTML/SVG/MathML palette etc) in XML+Javascript and perhaps contri=
bute/modify Gecko's core editor. I agree that maintaining the old and huge =
Amaya code is probably impossible without Ir=E8ne and Vincent's knowledge o=
f the code. Personally I'd like to improve Gecko-based editors because Amay=
a does some things better (e.g. the navigation and copy and paste of MathML=
). I think if Amaya shares a base code with all the other Gecko projects, t=
hat would definitely help the maintenance. Also, working with XML+Javascrip=
t for the UI would be much convenient (for example to get contributions fro=
m people without knowledge of C/C++) and stable (Amaya has always had many =
crashes) .

-- Fr=E9d=E9ric Wang
maths-informatique-jeux.com/blog/frederic




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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Please re=
move my name/email from the distribution listthank you<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jean koster<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;b=
order-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Fr=
om:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-se=
rif"'> HiddenId [mailto:[email protected]] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesd=
ay, April 09, 2013 10:40 AM<br><b>To:</b> Fr=E9d=E9ric WANG; laurent carcon=
e<br><b>Cc:</b> Stanimir Stamenkov; [email protected]; Steven Pemberton; alf=
[email protected]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: When will the next release be po=
sted?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:=
p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'c=
olor:black'>Hello all,<br>I'm not coder but I'm one of the happy Amaya user=
s group.<br>The only thing I can do is to encourage you.<br>It will be so u=
nbelievably great if all of what you mentionned could be done.<br>Again, fr=
om my point of you, Amaya is my preferred html /css editor.<br>Anyway again=
, thanks a lot to Irene, Vincent, Laurent, W3C, Inra and any else for the b=
ig job done and this very useful tool !!!<br>So freely,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color=
:black'>Antoine<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'background:white'><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p></div><div><div><div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text=
-align:center;background:white'><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family=
:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=3D1 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcent=
er></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:white'><b><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>De&nb=
sp;:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-se=
rif";color:black'> Fr=E9d=E9ric WANG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]=
r">[email protected]</a>&gt;<br><b>=C0&nbsp;:</b> laurent carcone &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; <=
br><b>Cc&nbsp;:</b> Stanimir Stamenkov &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:s7an10@netscap=
e.net">[email protected]</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">www=
[email protected]</a>; Steven Pemberton &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Steven.Pemberton@=
cwi.nl">[email protected]</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:alfredovogel@gma=
il.com">[email protected]</a> <br><b>Envoy=E9 le :</b> Mardi 9 avril 2=
013 13h15<br><b>Objet&nbsp;:</b> Re: When will the next release be posted?<=
/span><span style=3D'color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style=3D'colo=
r:black'><br><br>On 09/04/2013 11:54, laurent carcone wrote:<br>&gt; Hello,=
<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Indeed, there are no internal developments on Amaya curre=
ntly. Irene and Vincent retired and both W3C and Inria stopped their involv=
ment in the project. I work partial time at W3C but I have no assignment to=
 work on new developments.<br>&gt; Amaya has always been an open source pro=
ject and I created a github repository [1] to get a broader audience.<br>&g=
t; Some works have been done recently on HTML5 support, I hope to be able t=
o integrate them and create a specific snapshot.<br>&gt; But Amaya is a ver=
y complex project, used for both production and research purposes.<br>&gt; =
As Stanimir said, the main problem is the rendering engine. Amaya uses it's=
 own engine which is the most complex (and biggest) part of the code. I don=
't know this part very well and it would require a huge work to be able to =
maintain it. There was a project two years ago to work on the separation of=
 the editor part and the rendering part and use Gecko for that, unfortunate=
ly this project didn't succeed.<br>&gt; To my point of view, this separatio=
n is essential if we want Amaya continue to evolve, but as I said, it would=
 require a lot of time. I can help on some points but cannot lead.<br>&gt; =
Nevertheless, I'd like to see a first support of HTML5 on Amaya and I think=
 it's possible with the work that has been done on it.<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Reg=
ards,<br>&gt; Laurent<br>&gt; <br>&gt; [1] <a href=3D"https://github.com/W3=
C/Amaya" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/W3C/Amaya</a><br><br>Hi all,<=
br><br>Gecko C++ code has a rendering engine but also a core editor (the on=
e used for example by Thunderbird or by the &quot;contenteditable&quot; imp=
lementation. See <a href=3D"http://html5demos.com/contenteditable" target=
=3D"_blank">http://html5demos.com/contenteditable</a>). This editor gives b=
asic features like cursor navigation, entering text, selection, copy and pa=
ste etc Additionally, some projects (Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, KompoZer, Blue=
Griffon) add a user interface for more advanced operations like inserting a=
n image, a link etc At the moment, it seems that there are not a lot of dev=
elopments in the core editor, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey or KompoZer (because m=
ostly done by volunteers) while BlueGriffon is actively developed by Daniel=
 Glazman (but some of the features are proprietary extensions). I think Fab=
ien Cazenave wanted to modify the Mozilla source to easily build a standalo=
ne editor (<a href=3D"https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D477845=
" target=3D"_blank">https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D477845</=
a>) and that he is willing to continue his KompoZer editor. I also believed=
 he was hired by Mozilla to work on the editor at some point. However, I th=
ink he now works essentially on the B2G project (I think during a period he=
 also worked at WAM, is related to the effort you are mentioning?)<br><br>S=
o I'm wondering if Amaya should go further than just use the rendering engi=
ne by Gecko and also consider using its core editor. I did some experiments=
 a long time ago and that seemed to work, I was able to get a program with =
the same UI as Amaya, that uses Gecko's layout engine and the core editor (=
I still have the code, but haven't tried to compile it with recent version =
of Gecko). But it remains to reimplement the whole Amaya UI (save menu, css=
 editor, HTML/SVG/MathML palette etc) in XML+Javascript and perhaps contrib=
ute/modify Gecko's core editor. I agree that maintaining the old and huge A=
maya code is probably impossible without Ir=E8ne and Vincent's knowledge of=
 the code. Personally I'd like to improve Gecko-based editors because Amaya=
 does some things better (e.g. the navigation and copy and paste of MathML)=
. I think if Amaya shares a base code with all the other Gecko projects, th=
at would definitely help the maintenance. Also, working with XML+Javascript=
 for the UI would be much convenient (for example to get contributions from=
 people without knowledge of C/C++) and stable (Amaya has always had many c=
rashes) .<br><br>-- Fr=E9d=E9ric Wang<br>maths-informatique-jeux.com/blog/f=
rederic<br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body=
></html>=

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