Re: [css-fonts] Specifying changes to parameters for fallback fonts
Gérard Talbot <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.web.css.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
Le 2016-05-25 14:01, Florian Rivoal a écrit : >> On May 26, 2016, at 00:58, [email protected] wrote: >> >> since we don't have an automatic notification system in place yet, and >> since the discussion is beginning to assume some momentum, i thought >> i'd send one manually to the list: >> >> r12a has created an issue for https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts: >> >> == [css-fonts] Specifying changes to parameters for fallback fonts == >> After another session of fruitless wrestling with fonts, i thought i >> should make sure (a) i'm not missing something obvious, and (b) if >> not, ask whether we can improve CSS. >> >> This time i was trying to get a particular look across Mac- and >> Windows-based browsers. On the Mac i like the look of Helvetica Neue >> with font-weight set to 300 at a font size of 16px. But i can't find >> anything to match that in Windows standard fonts – well, i could get >> reasonably close, but i'd need to be able to change the font weight >> and the font size for a font-family name specified as a fallback. >> >> I've never understood why, in CSS, i can't say something like >> >> p { font: 'macfont' 300 16px, 'windowsfont' 500 18px, sans-serif } >> >> This is a much bigger problem in non-Latin scripts, where glyph >> dimensions can vary widely from font to font at the same font-size. >> For example, compare the same glyphs set to the exact same font-size >> in Mongolian Baiti and Noto Sans Mongolian: >> >>  >> >> It's not just mongolian, this is a constant problem in arabic, and >> many other scripts. >> >> And by the way, i thought about web fonts, but i can't help thinking >> that you should be able to just use standard platform fonts if you >> want to. Note that that tweaking the size/weight of such fonts would >> be easier than finding fonts that look good and can be used for free >> to cover the up to 15 languages we have on the i18n site, but also >> we're often dealing with multiple languages on a given page for >> examples etc, which also ramps up the bandwidth when using webfonts. >> >> What am i missing? >> >> See https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/126 > > > I don't know what you're missing, but I am missing it too. > > No need to reach for mongolian, the same happens just fine in English. > Baskerville as found on OS X vs Libre Baskerville, at the same font > size and same weight, are very differently sized. > > I've found myself wanting to use the OS X one as a default (it's got > more open type features), and the libre one as a fallback, but the > size being very different makes it tricky, and font-size-adjust cannot > be used to adjust only some of the fallback fonts. > > - Florian Florian, Can you explain why you believe that 'font-size-adjust' can not be used to adjust (compensate) fallback fonts. I am not sure I understand what you are saying. 3.6 Relative sizing: the font-size-adjust property https://www.w3.org/TR/css-fonts-3/#font-size-adjust-prop In my mind, 'font-size-adjust' has been created specifically so that a fallback font (not available on a system) used size will be adjusted to match the first font of a list or to constrain all possible match of a font list to a certain size. The glyphs will likely/possibly/probably not look the same but their relative size (aspect value) will be the same, must be the same: http://test.csswg.org/suites/css-fonts-3_dev/nightly-unstable/html/font-size-adjust-003.htm Gérard