Re: HTTPS-RR and ECH

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>
>
> What if you build a browser using libcurl for the networking parts?
>
> unlikely. browser is a huge project, its hard to justify such a project
and even harder to predict it will utilize CURL library.


> I expect no one thinks we should conflate anything, but I'm pretty sure a
> large amount of curl and licburl users think we should offer the same or
> similar transfer features that the browsers have.
>
> even larger amount of users dont want to be tracked by cloudflare,
when asked, that is why the ECH option is opt-out by default,
to avoid users.


> We offer options for users to opt-in and out of features, both at
> build-time
> and runtime to allow them to decide as much as possible.
>
> but opting in is not offered anymore?


> Browser-like automation is a pretty signification chunk of curl use cases.
>
> ECH is not needed for automation, right?


> I must have missed all your pull-requests and work into improve curl's
> HTTPS
> record resolving without using an external library.
>
> this is just not my style - it is too small, it is impossible to delete
the threading model altogether or change the design. i never thought about
such an activity before ext/curl rewrite as well, because, obviously it is
a different project architecture.


> > A user-developer choosing to link that dependency is simply inheriting
> > structural complexity.
>
> Linking with libcurl is already "inheriting significant structural
> complexity". The key is probably to provide value that is worth more than
> the
> complexity it contains/hides.
>
> absolutely, but ECH doesn't provide anything useful to a user-developer.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px =
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
What if you build a browser using libcurl for the networking parts?<br>
<br></blockquote><div>unlikely. browser is a huge project, its hard to just=
ify such a project and even harder to predict it will utilize CURL library.=
</div><div><span style=3D"color:initial">=C2=A0</span></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
I expect no one thinks we should conflate anything, but I&#39;m pretty sure=
 a <br>
large amount of curl and licburl users think we should offer the same or <b=
r>
similar transfer features that the browsers have.<br>
<br></blockquote><div>even larger amount of users dont want to be tracked b=
y cloudflare,</div><div>when asked, that is why the ECH option is opt-out b=
y default,</div><div>to avoid users.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid r=
gb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
We offer options for users to opt-in and out of features, both at build-tim=
e <br>
and runtime to allow them to decide as much as possible.<br>
<br></blockquote><div>but opting in is not offered anymore?</div><div>=C2=
=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8e=
x;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
Browser-like automation is a pretty signification chunk of curl use cases.<=
br>
<br></blockquote><div>ECH is not needed for automation, right?</div><div>=
=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
I must have missed all your pull-requests and work into improve curl&#39;s =
HTTPS <br>
record resolving without using an external library.<br>
<br></blockquote><div>this is just not my style - it is too small, it is im=
possible to delete the threading model altogether or change the design. i n=
ever thought about such an activity before ext/curl rewrite as well, becaus=
e,=C2=A0obviously it is a different project architecture.</div><div>=C2=A0<=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
&gt; A user-developer choosing to link that dependency is simply inheriting=
 <br>
&gt; structural complexity.<br>
<br>
Linking with libcurl is already &quot;inheriting significant structural <br=
>
complexity&quot;. The key is probably to provide value that is worth more t=
han the <br>
complexity it contains/hides.<br><br></blockquote><div>absolutely, but ECH =
doesn&#39;t provide anything useful to a user-developer.=C2=A0</div><div><b=
r></div></div></div>

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