RE: What is the DOM4 Attr interface used for?
"Roy Walmsley" <[email protected]> Sun, 21 Feb 2016 10:31:12 -0000
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.web.dom.general |
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This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01D16C92.FCDBBFE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sebastian, =20 Thanks for the further clarification. One last question, I hope = =E2=80=A6 =20 If the living standard supersedes level 4 then where does it tell me = that? If I go to your general standards page = (https://www.w3.org/TR/#tr_DOM) I see nothing that tells me that the DOM = specifications have been superseded. There is no reference to the living = standard. And, on the living standards page = (https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/) there is no reference to it superseding = level 4. =20 As a potential user and developer I need to be able to determine, = unambiguously, and easily, what the latest, current standard is. =20 Regards, =20 Roy =20 From: Sebastian Zartner [mailto:[email protected]]=20 Sent: 21 February 2016 09:26 To: Roy Walmsley Cc: Anne van Kesteren; [email protected] Subject: Re: What is the DOM4 Attr interface used for? =20 On 20 February 2016 at 20:46, Roy Walmsley <[email protected]> = wrote: Anne, Many thanks for your response. While I understand how the situation arose, it still doesn't solve the = problem of the level 4 specification. As it stands at the moment, the = "Attr" interface is not included either directly or indirectly in the = "Element" interface. Consequently, elements have no attributes. So it is = effectively impossible to implement. =20 That assumption is incorrect. The 'Element' interface has the = 'attributes' property, which returns the DOM Level 3 'NamedNodeMap' (as = you've already recognized). =20 I can see that the "NamedNodeMap" interface is defined in the level 3 = core, so cannot be changed without breaking level 3 and lower. Why don't = you redefine it in Level 4 with the current definition from the living = standard? =20 The living standard *is* the current specification, superseding Level 4. Sebastian =20 Leaving the level 4 specification in its current state requires, at the = very least, a red comment highlighting the problem to users. Regards, Roy -----Original Message----- From: Anne van Kesteren [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 19 February 2016 13:40 To: Roy Walmsley Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: What is the DOM4 Attr interface used for? Hi Roy, Welcome to the DOM community. These days we mostly hang out in = https://github.com/whatwg/dom and https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/IRC. On Wed, Feb 17, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Roy Walmsley = <[email protected]> wrote: > I, as a DOM novice, have been studying the DOM4 specification > available on-line at https://www.w3.org/TR/dom/. It's unfortunately not very clear, but you want to study = https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/ instead. > I make the assumption that, previously, individual = =E2=80=9CElement=E2=80=9D > attributes were defined as =E2=80=9CAttr=E2=80=9D objects which, = inheriting the =E2=80=9CNode=E2=80=9D > interface, could be listed in a =E2=80=9CNamedNodeMap=E2=80=9D = attribute. Correct. > Now, however, it seems to me, that =E2=80=9CNamedNodeMap=E2=80=9D is = not an > appropriate type for the =E2=80=9Cattributes=E2=80=9D attribute in the = =E2=80=9CElement=E2=80=9D interface. It's not a correct name, but since it was only ever used by attributes, = changing the type of the things it holds is actually possible. Having = said that, we might have to change Attr objects back to being Attr node = objects. It's a little up in the air. > As I said at the start, I am a novice to the DOM, albeit that I have > many years programming experience. So, apologies if I have this wrong. > I would be very grateful for clarification. You're correct that it's a little weird, but unfortunately we cannot = right all wrongs, just a handful. Kind regards, -- https://annevankesteren.nl/ =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01D16C92.FCDBBFE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" = xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" = xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = xmlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" = xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta = http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><meta = name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 14 (filtered = medium)"><style><!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {mso-style-priority:99; color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-priority:99; color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} p.MsoAcetate, li.MsoAcetate, div.MsoAcetate {mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text Char"; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:8.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";} span.BalloonTextChar {mso-style-name:"Balloon Text Char"; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-link:"Balloon Text"; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-language:EN-GB;} span.EmailStyle19 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} @page WordSection1 {size:612.0pt 792.0pt; margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;} --></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit"> <o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-GB link=3Dblue = vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>Sebastian,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>Thanks for the further clarification. One last question, I hope = =E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>If the living standard supersedes level 4 then where does it tell me = that? If I go to your general standards page (<a = href=3D"https://www.w3.org/TR/#tr_DOM">https://www.w3.org/TR/#tr_DOM</a>)= I see nothing that tells me that the DOM specifications have been = superseded. There is no reference to the living standard. And, on the = living standards page (<a = href=3D"https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/">https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/</a>) = there is no reference to it superseding level 4.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>As a potential user and developer I need to be able to determine, = unambiguously, and easily, what the latest, current standard = is.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'>Roy<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span = style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497= D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span = lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>= </b><span lang=3DEN-US = style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Sebastian = Zartner [mailto:[email protected]] <br><b>Sent:</b> 21 February = 2016 09:26<br><b>To:</b> Roy Walmsley<br><b>Cc:</b> Anne van Kesteren; = [email protected]<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: What is the DOM4 Attr interface = used for?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>On 20 February 2016 at 20:46, Roy Walmsley <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> = wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Anne,<br><br>Many thanks for = your response.<br><br>While I understand how the situation arose, it = still doesn't solve the problem of the level 4 specification. As it = stands at the moment, the "Attr" interface is not included = either directly or indirectly in the "Element" interface. = Consequently, elements have no attributes. So it is effectively = impossible to implement.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>That assumption is incorrect. The 'Element' interface = has the 'attributes' property, which returns the DOM Level 3 = 'NamedNodeMap' (as you've already = recognized).<br> <o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote = style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal>I can see = that the "NamedNodeMap" interface is defined in the level 3 = core, so cannot be changed without breaking level 3 and lower. Why don't = you redefine it in Level 4 with the current definition from the living = standard?<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>The living standard *is* the current = specification, superseding Level 4.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal>Sebastian<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote = style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Leaving the level 4 specification in its = current state requires, at the very least, a red comment highlighting = the problem to users.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote = style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal = style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Regards,<br><br>Roy<br><br><br>-----Origin= al Message-----<br>From: Anne van Kesteren [mailto:<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>]<br>Sent: 19 = February 2016 13:40<br>To: Roy Walmsley<br>Cc: <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br>Subject: Re: What = is the DOM4 Attr interface used for?<br><br>Hi Roy,<br><br>Welcome to = the DOM community. These days we mostly hang out in <a = href=3D"https://github.com/whatwg/dom" = target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/whatwg/dom</a> and <a = href=3D"https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/IRC" = target=3D"_blank">https://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/IRC</a>.<br><br>On Wed, = Feb 17, 2016 at 4:39 PM, Roy Walmsley <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&g= t; wrote:<br>> I, as a DOM novice, have been studying the DOM4 = specification<br>> available on-line at <a = href=3D"https://www.w3.org/TR/dom/" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.w3.org/TR/dom/</a>.<br><br>It's = unfortunately not very clear, but you want to study <a = href=3D"https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/" = target=3D"_blank">https://dom.spec.whatwg.org/</a> = instead.<br><br><br>> I make the assumption that, previously, = individual =E2=80=9CElement=E2=80=9D<br>> attributes were defined as = =E2=80=9CAttr=E2=80=9D objects which, inheriting the = =E2=80=9CNode=E2=80=9D<br>> interface, could be listed in a = =E2=80=9CNamedNodeMap=E2=80=9D = attribute.<br><br>Correct.<br><br><br>> Now, however, it seems to me, = that =E2=80=9CNamedNodeMap=E2=80=9D is not an<br>> appropriate type = for the =E2=80=9Cattributes=E2=80=9D attribute in the = =E2=80=9CElement=E2=80=9D interface.<br><br>It's not a correct name, but = since it was only ever used by attributes, changing the type of the = things it holds is actually possible. Having said that, we might have to = change Attr objects back to being Attr node objects. It's a little up in = the air.<br><br><br>> As I said at the start, I am a novice to the = DOM, albeit that I have<br>> many years programming experience. So, = apologies if I have this wrong.<br>> I would be very grateful for = clarification.<br><br>You're correct that it's a little weird, but = unfortunately we cannot right all wrongs, just a handful.<br><br>Kind = regards,<br><br><br>--<br><a href=3D"https://annevankesteren.nl/" = target=3D"_blank">https://annevankesteren.nl/</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><= /blockquote></div><p = class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01D16C92.FCDBBFE0--