Re: Defining mutation events

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I think we need someone to own this issue for Blink, and the DOM team led
by Dominic is the obvious candidate. Dominic, do you have someone who could
take a look at the situation and come up with a plan forward together with
engineers from the other engines?

FWIW, I'm skeptical about deprecation messages being able to seriously move
usage, or at least I don't think it can be the only tool if we're serious
about attempting a simplification or removal of mutation events. At the top
of my list of things to do would be to find big sites or frameworks that
use mutation events and to understand what it would take for them to
migrate. We might learn something important there, I wouldn't be surprised
if there are things missing from the web platform.

On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:10 PM Olli Pettay <[email protected]> wrote:

> The use of mutation events has gone down significantly and if we could get
> browsers other than
> just Firefox to warn about use of mutation events, the usage might go down
> even more.
> All these deprecations can't work if UAs don't warn about use of such
> features.
>
>
> -Olli
>
>
>
> On 08/23/2016 11:23 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:
> > Elliott, you mentioned a few times that you want to slightly change
> > the timing of mutation events. Is that still in the cards?
> >
> > I posted a summary of the current state of things around mutation events
> here:
> >
> >    https://github.com/whatwg/dom/issues/305
> >
> > It seems like browsers implement different subsets, so there might be
> > some room for simplification. But it doesn't seem that the use
> > counters are low enough for removal for a couple of them so we'll
> > either have to experiment with timing or just suck it up and define
> > them as-is.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">I think we need someone to own this issue for Blink, and t=
he DOM team led by Dominic is the obvious candidate. Dominic, do you have s=
omeone who could take a look at the situation and come up with a plan forwa=
rd together with engineers from the other engines?<div><br></div><div>FWIW,=
 I&#39;m skeptical about deprecation messages being able to seriously move =
usage, or at least I don&#39;t think it can be the only tool if we&#39;re s=
erious about attempting a simplification or removal of mutation events. At =
the top of my list of things to do would be to find big sites or frameworks=
 that use mutation events and to understand what it would take for them to =
migrate. We might learn something important there, I wouldn&#39;t be surpri=
sed if there are things missing from the web platform.</div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 12:10 PM Olli Pet=
tay &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">The use of mutation events has gone do=
wn significantly and if we could get browsers other than<br>
just Firefox to warn about use of mutation events, the usage might go down =
even more.<br>
All these deprecations can&#39;t work if UAs don&#39;t warn about use of su=
ch features.<br>
<br>
<br>
-Olli<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 08/23/2016 11:23 AM, Anne van Kesteren wrote:<br>
&gt; Elliott, you mentioned a few times that you want to slightly change<br=
>
&gt; the timing of mutation events. Is that still in the cards?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I posted a summary of the current state of things around mutation even=
ts here:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://github.com/whatwg/dom/issues/305" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://github.com/whatwg/dom/issues/305<=
/a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; It seems like browsers implement different subsets, so there might be<=
br>
&gt; some room for simplification. But it doesn&#39;t seem that the use<br>
&gt; counters are low enough for removal for a couple of them so we&#39;ll<=
br>
&gt; either have to experiment with timing or just suck it up and define<br=
>
&gt; them as-is.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thoughts?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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