[EP-underground] To start things off
Christopher Gutteridge <[email protected]> Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:11:53 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.web.eprints.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
Hi, I see that about 32 people have already signed up. A question to think about: how do you easily search for multiple names: (this is a human, not a technical question) currently ep2 (eprints.org software v2) uses the syntax Smith, Bob Field, J Harris to search for Mr Bob Smith, Mr J Field and Mr Harris - but this is not very clear, and gets difficult with "van Helsing" - multi word surnames. I quite like the cite-base search field - I think Tim Brody is responsible form. <snip> Authors are seperated by a semi-colon (;) The last name (surname) of an author can either be: *Specified first, followed by a comma (with the forenames following) *Specified last, with no comma (with the forenames preceding) For example: Description: Edward Witten and Seiberg Search Query: Witten, Edward;Seiberg OR Edward Witten;Seiberg Description: S Hawking and S Ross Search Query: Hawking, S;Ross, S OR Hawking, S;S Ross OR S Hawking;S Ross </snip> This is a human understanding problem, there is not a clear technical solution. Although, my analysis of logs in cogprints indicate that most people only ever search with a single word... -- Christopher Gutteridge -- [email protected] -- +44 (0)23 8059 4833 but survival is simply not enough. nowhere near. what's the point of surviving? survive what? i demand and expect quality. right now, once and for all. quality time. - whitehouse / quality time (edited) From [email protected] Thu Jul 26 11:56:11 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA32224 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:56:11 +0100 Received: from raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.1]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA32218 for <[email protected]>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:56:09 +0100 Received: from lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (IDENT:[email protected] [152.78.69.138]) by raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18608 for <[email protected]>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:56:09 +0100 (BST) Received: (from cjg@localhost) by lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f6QAutA04669 for eprints-underground; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:56:55 +0100 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 11:56:55 +0100 From: ePrints Support <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [EP-underground] In the online news... Message-ID: <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> slashdot.org (News for nerds, stuff that matters) has a link to a story "Public Library of Science Prepares to Boycott Journals with Launch of Publishing Effort" - may be of interest. http://www.genomeweb.com/articles/view-article.asp?Article=200172219199 also the comments may ( or may not ) be interesting on slashdot: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/25/2317215&mode=thread T-6 for eprints-2-alpha-1... -- Christopher Gutteridge [email protected] ePrints Technical Support +44 23 8059 4833 From [email protected] Thu Jul 26 12:36:27 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA00738 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:36:27 +0100 Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA00735 for <[email protected]>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:36:26 +0100 Received: from coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (coglit [152.78.70.181]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA16348 for <[email protected]>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:36:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk (cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.179]) by coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26735 for <[email protected]>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:42:12 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (harnad@localhost) by cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA02226 for <[email protected]>; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:48:55 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk: harnad owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 12:48:54 +0100 (BST) From: Stevan Harnad <[email protected]> To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EP-underground] In the online news... In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Hi, have a look at: http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue28/minotaur/ Chrs, S On Thu, 26 Jul 2001, ePrints Support wrote: > slashdot.org (News for nerds, stuff that matters) has a link to a story > "Public Library of Science Prepares to Boycott Journals with Launch of > Publishing Effort" - may be of interest. > > http://www.genomeweb.com/articles/view-article.asp?Article=200172219199 > > also the comments may ( or may not ) be interesting on slashdot: > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/07/25/2317215&mode=thread > > T-6 for eprints-2-alpha-1... > -- > > Christopher Gutteridge [email protected] > ePrints Technical Support +44 23 8059 4833 > From [email protected] Fri Jul 27 16:24:02 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24013 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:24:02 +0100 Received: from raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.1]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24010 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:24:01 +0100 Received: from lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (IDENT:[email protected] [152.78.69.138]) by raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00195 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:24:00 +0100 (BST) Received: (from cjg@localhost) by lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f6RFOlL10762 for eprints-underground; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:24:47 +0100 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:24:42 +0100 From: ePrints Support <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [EP-underground] Storing Peoples Names Message-ID: <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Hmmm. EPrints 2 code currently stores peoples names as two parts "given" - given name(s) and "family" - family name(s) I'm wondering how to deal with "Herr Professor Marvin von Fenderson III" "Marvin" is the given name. "von Fenderson" is the family name. I'm wondering if I should add a "honourific" field for "Herr Professor" and a "lineage" field for "III" Does anyone have any insight? -- Christopher Gutteridge [email protected] ePrints Technical Support +44 23 8059 4833 From [email protected] Fri Jul 27 16:42:28 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA24533 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:42:28 +0100 Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA24530 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:42:27 +0100 Received: from coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (coglit [152.78.70.181]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17618 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:42:22 +0100 (BST) Received: from cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk (cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.179]) by coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23324 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:48:14 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (harnad@localhost) by cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA01201 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:54:57 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk: harnad owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:54:56 +0100 (BST) From: Stevan Harnad <[email protected]> To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EP-underground] Storing Peoples Names In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Fenderson is the surname (though some will consider themselves von Fenderson, Marvin is the given names(s), the Professor is a title and does not belong in the names field at all, and I recommend just leaving out dynastic information (III). So given name(s), surname (1 per customer, can can be in several parts) should be enough for the names field. Title is another box. Chrs, Stevan On Fri, 27 Jul 2001, ePrints Support wrote: > Hmmm. > > EPrints 2 code currently stores peoples names as two parts > "given" - given name(s) and > "family" - family name(s) > > I'm wondering how to deal with > > "Herr Professor Marvin von Fenderson III" > > "Marvin" is the given name. > "von Fenderson" is the family name. > > I'm wondering if I should add a "honourific" field for > "Herr Professor" and a "lineage" field for "III" > > Does anyone have any insight? > > > -- > > Christopher Gutteridge [email protected] > ePrints Technical Support +44 23 8059 4833 > From [email protected] Wed Aug 1 16:43:35 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA23070 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:43:35 +0100 Received: from raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.1]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA23059 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:43:33 +0100 Received: from lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (IDENT:[email protected] [152.78.69.138]) by raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA01798; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:43:30 +0100 (BST) Received: (from cjg@localhost) by lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f71FiIr31670; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:44:18 +0100 Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 16:44:18 +0100 From: ePrints Support <[email protected]> To: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Subject: [EP-underground] EPrints 2 Alpha-1 Message-ID: <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> As announced last month at the London OAI meeting: August 1st 2001: EPrints 2 Alpha-1 has been released and is available from: http://www.eprints.org/files/eprints/ Features Include - International language support (UTF-8 and multiple "phrase" files) - Much improved database back end - real text indexing and normalised data. - Improved installation (no longer uses ./configure & make) - Full support for multiple archives on one server - Object Oriented Design and database abstraction Caveats - This is not a stable (or even fully working) release. - It is not an upgrade for EPrints 1 series. - Many bits remain to be done. If all goes to plan, from tonight, nightly builds from CVS will be available too. See http://www.eprints.org/ for more information on the eprints project. -- "The EPrints Team" Christopher Gutteridge & Mike Jewell [email protected] +44 23 8059 4833 From [email protected] Wed Aug 15 14:52:45 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA14730 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:52:45 +0100 Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA14727 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:52:44 +0100 Received: from haymarket.ed.ac.uk (haymarket.ed.ac.uk [129.215.128.53]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA10536 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:52:39 +0100 (BST) Received: from srv4.lib.ed.ac.uk (srv4.lib.ed.ac.uk [129.215.146.219]) by haymarket.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA27929 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:52:38 +0100 (BST) Message-Id: <[email protected]> Received: from LIB-SRV4/SpoolDir by srv4.lib.ed.ac.uk (Mercury 1.44); 15 Aug 01 14:52:38 +0000 Received: from SpoolDir by LIB-SRV4 (Mercury 1.44); 15 Aug 01 14:52:12 +0000 From: "Avril Conacher" <[email protected]> Organization: Library Server To: [email protected] Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:52:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: [EP-underground] Linking to arXiv.org In-reply-to: <[email protected]> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Hi there, Many of our physics and astrophysics academics already submit their papers to existing e-print servers including arXiv.org, and have been doing so for years. If we were to set up our own new institutional e-print server here, are we able to provide links from our site to theses existing eprints or would we have to ask the academics to re-submit their papers to our server as well? Many thanks, Avril Conacher SELLIC Digital Library Officer University of Edinburgh Darwin Library tel. 0131 650 7433 The King's Buildings Edinburgh EH9 3JU From [email protected] Wed Aug 15 19:38:39 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA02253 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:38:39 +0100 Received: from raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.1]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02250 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:38:38 +0100 Received: from lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (IDENT:[email protected] [152.78.69.138]) by raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA11471 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:38:38 +0100 (BST) Received: (from cjg@localhost) by lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f7FIdQL29784 for [email protected]; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:39:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:39:26 +0100 From: Christopher Gutteridge <[email protected]> To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EP-underground] Linking to arXiv.org Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from [email protected] on Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 02:52:11PM +0100 Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> You get to configure the system. So you could set it up to not insist on the full text being submitted and use the "alternate locations" default field to indicate the URL. Of course this still means you have to submit the metadata twice. Just not the full text. Is your goal to "suck" info out of arXiv in some way? In which case eprints software may not be ideal for your aims. Possibly what you need is a "harvester" which sucks from each of these other archives and combines the info into a database. The trick is to get arXiv(and the others) to export their data so you can identify your papers. This may well be a job for OAI (http://www.openarchives.org) This really isn't a solved problem. Does anyone else on the list have any useful insight? One other idea would be a custom "hack" for eprints which takes the URL of a metdata page in arXiv, attempts to extract as much data as possible from that record and insterts it into a new eprints record in the users inbox so they can check the data, add any other info, and submit it. Any solution which sucks data from another place should be negotiated with the owner of that database (even if the data is about your stuff). On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 02:52:11PM +0100, Avril Conacher wrote: > Hi there, > > Many of our physics and astrophysics academics already submit > their papers to existing e-print servers including arXiv.org, and have > been doing so for years. > If we were to set up our own new institutional e-print server here, > are we able to provide links from our site to theses existing eprints > or would we have to ask the academics to re-submit their papers to > our server as well? > > Many thanks, > > Avril Conacher > SELLIC Digital Library Officer > University of Edinburgh > Darwin Library > tel. 0131 650 7433 > The King's Buildings > Edinburgh > EH9 3JU -- Christopher Gutteridge -- [email protected] -- +44 (0)23 8059 4833 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Now Playing: "Caravan O Sole / D.P.O.D." from Global Psychedelic Trance Vol - Various Artists From [email protected] Wed Aug 15 20:52:53 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA04022 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:52:53 +0100 Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA04019 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:52:52 +0100 Received: from dungeon.library (dungeon.library.caltech.edu [131.215.225.2]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA27178 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:52:48 +0100 (BST) Received: by dungeon.library.caltech.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <QJBWC6HN>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:50:40 -0700 Message-ID: <0C2C50C9B668D311878100A0C9EA3676BAFBBB@dungeon.library.caltech.edu> From: Ed Sponsler <[email protected]> To: "'EPrints Underground List'" <[email protected]> Subject: RE: [EP-underground] Linking to arXiv.org Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:50:31 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> > -----Original Message----- > From: Christopher Gutteridge [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 11:39 AM > To: EPrints Underground List > Subject: Re: [EP-underground] Linking to arXiv.org > > > Is your goal to "suck" info out of arXiv in some way? In > which case eprints > software may not be ideal for your aims. Possibly what you need is a > "harvester" which sucks from each of these other archives and > combines the > info into a database. The trick is to get arXiv(and the > others) to export > their data so you can identify your papers. This may well be > a job for OAI > (http://www.openarchives.org) > > This really isn't a solved problem. Does anyone else on the > list have any > useful insight? An idea that just popped in my mind: how about a 'Set' (or subject) creation plugin for EPrints. It would take a search result list and assign a common subject to them all. The OAI would export that as a Set, which can then be selectively harvested. [Is my understanding correct that EPrints subjects are in fact OAI sets? And that OAI has a mechanism to selectively harvest sets?] Shouldn't be to tough to add a "make subject" link in a staff eprint search result screen, prompt for a subject name and add that name to the subject field for all records returned in the set. A more sophisticated approach would be to enable queries like: 'Create a set for each author'. The script would then need to generate a search query for each author name and assign them to a subject/set. Another valuable query would be to 'Create a set for these year ranges'. Many other possibilities. All of this of course relies on good and consistent metadata to create complete and relevant sets. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ed Sponsler, Sr. Computing Analyst Caltech Library System > On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 02:52:11PM +0100, Avril Conacher wrote: > > Hi there, > > > > Many of our physics and astrophysics academics already submit > > their papers to existing e-print servers including > arXiv.org, and have > > been doing so for years. > > If we were to set up our own new institutional e-print server here, > > are we able to provide links from our site to theses > existing eprints > > or would we have to ask the academics to re-submit their papers to > > our server as well? > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Avril Conacher > > SELLIC Digital Library Officer > > University of Edinburgh > > Darwin Library > > tel. 0131 650 7433 > > The King's Buildings > > Edinburgh > > EH9 3JU > > -- > Christopher Gutteridge -- [email protected] -- +44 (0)23 8059 4833 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Now Playing: "Caravan O Sole / D.P.O.D." from Global > Psychedelic Trance Vol > - Various Artists > From [email protected] Thu Aug 16 01:19:56 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA10198 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:19:56 +0100 Received: from raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.1]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA10192 for <[email protected]>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:19:54 +0100 Received: from lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (IDENT:[email protected] [152.78.69.138]) by raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA12920 for <[email protected]>; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:19:53 +0100 (BST) Received: (from cjg@localhost) by lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f7G0Kfn30063 for [email protected]; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:20:41 +0100 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:20:41 +0100 From: Christopher Gutteridge <[email protected]> To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EP-underground] Linking to arXiv.org Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <0C2C50C9B668D311878100A0C9EA3676BAFBBB@dungeon.library.caltech.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <0C2C50C9B668D311878100A0C9EA3676BAFBBB@dungeon.library.caltech.edu>; from [email protected] on Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 12:50:31PM -0700 Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> I already had a goal to add things like people as sets -by making people have identifiers (Much safer than search by name) and make each person a set. I'm not sure of the details yet, but you could add any (or most) fields as oai sets. In fact even "subject" could become an option, as could year etc. As for complex searches, these could be configured too. There is a way of serialising all search expressions in a utf8 string - this is how subscriptions are stored, and may later be used as part of search result caching. These strings could be used to generate eprints sets. I've added this to my todo list. But not at the top :) On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 12:50:31PM -0700, Ed Sponsler wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Christopher Gutteridge [mailto:[email protected]] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 11:39 AM > > To: EPrints Underground List > > Subject: Re: [EP-underground] Linking to arXiv.org > > > > > > Is your goal to "suck" info out of arXiv in some way? In > > which case eprints > > software may not be ideal for your aims. Possibly what you need is a > > "harvester" which sucks from each of these other archives and > > combines the > > info into a database. The trick is to get arXiv(and the > > others) to export > > their data so you can identify your papers. This may well be > > a job for OAI > > (http://www.openarchives.org) > > > > This really isn't a solved problem. Does anyone else on the > > list have any > > useful insight? > > An idea that just popped in my mind: how about a 'Set' (or subject) creation > plugin for EPrints. It would take a search result list and assign a common > subject to them all. The OAI would export that as a Set, which can then be > selectively harvested. [Is my understanding correct that EPrints subjects > are in fact OAI sets? And that OAI has a mechanism to selectively harvest > sets?] > > Shouldn't be to tough to add a "make subject" link in a staff eprint search > result screen, prompt for a subject name and add that name to the subject > field for all records returned in the set. > > A more sophisticated approach would be to enable queries like: 'Create a set > for each author'. The script would then need to generate a search query for > each author name and assign them to a subject/set. Another valuable query > would be to 'Create a set for these year ranges'. Many other possibilities. > > All of this of course relies on good and consistent metadata to create > complete and relevant sets. > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Ed Sponsler, Sr. Computing Analyst > Caltech Library System > > > > On Wed, Aug 15, 2001 at 02:52:11PM +0100, Avril Conacher wrote: > > > Hi there, > > > > > > Many of our physics and astrophysics academics already submit > > > their papers to existing e-print servers including > > arXiv.org, and have > > > been doing so for years. > > > If we were to set up our own new institutional e-print server here, > > > are we able to provide links from our site to theses > > existing eprints > > > or would we have to ask the academics to re-submit their papers to > > > our server as well? > > > > > > Many thanks, > > > > > > Avril Conacher > > > SELLIC Digital Library Officer > > > University of Edinburgh > > > Darwin Library > > > tel. 0131 650 7433 > > > The King's Buildings > > > Edinburgh > > > EH9 3JU > > > > -- > > Christopher Gutteridge -- [email protected] -- +44 (0)23 8059 4833 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Now Playing: "Caravan O Sole / D.P.O.D." from Global > > Psychedelic Trance Vol > > - Various Artists > > -- Christopher Gutteridge -- [email protected] -- +44 (0)23 8059 4833 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 12,000 citizens of Ai. Joshua hung the king on a tree. (Joshua 8:1-30) From [email protected] Fri Aug 17 16:29:00 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA10442 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:29:00 +0100 Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA10439 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:28:59 +0100 Received: from coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (coglit [152.78.70.181]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09735 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:28:28 +0100 (BST) Received: from cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk (cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.179]) by coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28407; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:34:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (harnad@localhost) by cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA00684; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:41:16 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk: harnad owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:41:13 +0100 (BST) From: Stevan Harnad <[email protected]> To: Colin Steele <[email protected]> cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Subject: [EP-underground] Query on eprint archive indexing (fwd) In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Colin Steele wrote: > The audio and print transcript is now available on the ABC website. > http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s345514.htm > > However, the main reason for the email is to ask your advice or point > me to someone. We've just established the ANU eprint archive for all > subjects and need to sort out our strategy for scaleability of keyword > indexing. > > Do we allow the academics to give us their own keywords and then allow > natural language searching or do we attempt a thesaurus approach which > involves quite a lot of extra work on our side as we can't ask the > academics to go into thesauri as it's going to be bad enough to get > them to follow the copyright and OAI issues. It's just that when we get > let's say to tens of thousands of articles what is the best searching > and indexing procedure? > > This is clearly from one who has not been involved in this technical side! > > Colin Steele > Director Scholarly Information Services & University Librarian > Division of Information, R G Menzies Building (#2) > The Australian National University > Canberra ACT 0200 > Australia > > Tel +61 (0)2 612 52003 > Fax +61 (0)2 612 53215 > Email: [email protected] > Library Web: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/ Dear Colin, I am forwarding your query to the OAI and Eprints lists as yours is a technical question and has already had some thought and discussion devoted to it. I would note, in passing, that by far the most pressing objective at this time is not that of devising the optimal indexing system for the Eprint Archives (though that can be accomplished) but that of getting CONTENT into those archives, as soon as possible (so that, if you like, there will be the data to optimize the indexing FOR!). So my own feeling is that it is putting the cart before the horse to worry too much about indexing still-near-empty archives! The growing content itself, and its growing use, will drive the further optimizations in indexing and retrieval, not the other way round. But inasmuch as worries about indexing may be delaying some people's self-archiving, by all means let us make a robust and general indexing system available, so that particular retardant, at least, is behind us and we can get on with it... If ANU soes indeed have tens of thousands of articles in its Eprint Archives soon, it will already have taken a huge step for the entire research community, showing the way for all! Best wishes, Stevan -------------------------------------------------------------------- Stevan Harnad [email protected] Professor of Cognitive Science [email protected] Department of Electronics and phone: +44 23-80 592-582 Computer Science fax: +44 23-80 592-865 University of Southampton http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/ Highfield, Southampton http://www.princeton.edu/~harnad/ SO17 1BJ UNITED KINGDOM NOTE: A complete archive of the ongoing discussion of providing free access to the refereed journal literature online is available at the American Scientist September Forum (98 & 99 & 00 & 01): http://amsci-forum.amsci.org/archives/september98-forum.html You may join the list at the site above. Discussion can be posted to: [email protected] From [email protected] Sat Aug 18 08:07:32 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA02899 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:07:32 +0100 Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA02888 for <[email protected]>; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:07:29 +0100 Received: from web11305.mail.yahoo.com (web11305.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.131.208]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA06883 for <[email protected]>; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:07:18 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <[email protected]> Received: from [202.141.146.21] by web11305.mail.yahoo.com; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:07:17 BST Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:07:17 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Subbiah=20Arunachalam?= <[email protected]> Subject: [EP-underground] Re: [OAI-general] Query on eprint archive indexing (fwd) To: Stevan Harnad <[email protected]>, Colin Steele <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Arun calling from Madras, India. Congratulations to ANU for establishing their own institutional Open Archives. I was there at ANU late last month as a guest of Dr Linda Butler, aquite but efficient researcher in the area of science policy and scientometrics, and I had the pleasure of having lunch and exchanging notes on the OAI with a group of librarians in the Canberra area. It is very important that large research universities set up their own Open Archives and make their research publications avaialble free on the web to researchers everywhere. In the last few weeks, leading commercial publishers have promised to release more than a thousand biomedical journals to be accessed free (after six months of publication), a concession they had to make if they have to survive the Public Library of Science and Open archives movements. Arun 18 august 2001 --- Stevan Harnad <[email protected]> wrote: > On Fri, 17 Aug 2001, Colin Steele wrote: > > > The audio and print transcript is now available on > the ABC website. > > > http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s345514.htm > > > > However, the main reason for the email is to ask > your advice or point > > me to someone. We've just established the ANU > eprint archive for all > > subjects and need to sort out our strategy for > scaleability of keyword > > indexing. > > > > Do we allow the academics to give us their own > keywords and then allow > > natural language searching or do we attempt a > thesaurus approach which > > involves quite a lot of extra work on our side as > we can't ask the > > academics to go into thesauri as it's going to be > bad enough to get > > them to follow the copyright and OAI issues. It's > just that when we get > > let's say to tens of thousands of articles what is > the best searching > > and indexing procedure? > > > > This is clearly from one who has not been involved > in this technical side! > > > > Colin Steele > > Director Scholarly Information Services & > University Librarian > > Division of Information, R G Menzies Building (#2) > > The Australian National University > > Canberra ACT 0200 > > Australia > > > > Tel +61 (0)2 612 52003 > > Fax +61 (0)2 612 53215 > > Email: [email protected] > > Library Web: http://anulib.anu.edu.au/ > > Dear Colin, > > I am forwarding your query to the OAI and Eprints > lists as yours is a > technical question and has already had some thought > and discussion > devoted to it. > > I would note, in passing, that by far the most > pressing objective at > this time is not that of devising the optimal > indexing system for > the Eprint Archives (though that can be > accomplished) but that of > getting CONTENT into those archives, as soon as > possible (so that, > if you like, there will be the data to optimize the > indexing FOR!). > > So my own feeling is that it is putting the cart > before the horse to > worry too much about indexing still-near-empty > archives! The growing > content itself, and its growing use, will drive the > further > optimizations in indexing and retrieval, not the > other way round. > > But inasmuch as worries about indexing may be > delaying some people's > self-archiving, by all means let us make a robust > and general indexing > system available, so that particular retardant, at > least, is behind us > and we can get on with it... > > If ANU soes indeed have tens of thousands of > articles in its Eprint > Archives soon, it will already have taken a huge > step for the entire > research community, showing the way for all! > > Best wishes, > > Stevan > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Stevan Harnad > [email protected] > Professor of Cognitive Science > [email protected] > Department of Electronics and phone: +44 23-80 > 592-582 > Computer Science fax: +44 23-80 > 592-865 > University of Southampton > http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/ > Highfield, Southampton > http://www.princeton.edu/~harnad/ > SO17 1BJ UNITED KINGDOM > > NOTE: A complete archive of the ongoing discussion > of providing free > access to the refereed journal literature online is > available at the > American Scientist September Forum (98 & 99 & 00 & > 01): > > > http://amsci-forum.amsci.org/archives/september98-forum.html > > You may join the list at the site above. > > Discussion can be posted to: > > [email protected] > > > _______________________________________________ > OAI-general mailing list > [email protected] > http://oaisrv.nsdl.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oai-general ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie From [email protected] Sat Aug 18 20:42:41 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA03263 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:42:41 +0100 Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA03260 for <[email protected]>; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:42:40 +0100 Received: from coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (coglit [152.78.70.181]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22646 for <[email protected]>; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:42:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk (cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.179]) by coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA00544; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:45:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (harnad@localhost) by cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA02482; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:52:19 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk: harnad owned process doing -bs Newsgroups: bionet.journals.note Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 20:52:09 +0100 (BST) From: Stevan Harnad <[email protected]> To: [email protected] cc: Distributed National Electronic Resource discussion forum <[email protected]>, Elib List EJ <[email protected]>, [email protected], [email protected] Subject: [EP-underground] Eprint Archive User/NonUser Survey Results Message-ID: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> The Preliminary results of our Survey of Users and NonUsers of Eprint Archives are at: http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~chh398/results/ (Note that this work is the result of a last-year computer-science project by Cathy Hunt.) http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~chh398/results/ Comments welcome! -------------------------------------------------------------------- Stevan Harnad [email protected] Professor of Cognitive Science [email protected] Department of Electronics and phone: +44 23-80 592-582 Computer Science fax: +44 23-80 592-865 University of Southampton http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/ Highfield, Southampton http://www.princeton.edu/~harnad/ NOTE: A complete archive of the ongoing discussion of providing free access to the refereed journal literature online is available at the American Scientist September Forum (98 & 99 & 00 & 01): http://amsci-forum.amsci.org/archives/september98-forum.html You may join the list at the site above. Discussion can be posted to: [email protected] SO17 1BJ UNITED KINGDOM From [email protected] Wed Aug 22 17:12:35 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA22613 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:12:35 +0100 Received: from crow.ecs.soton.ac.uk (crow.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.71.3]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA22608 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:12:34 +0100 Received: from sway.ecs.soton.ac.uk (IDENT:moj199@sway [152.78.71.192]) by crow.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA13294; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:12:09 +0100 (BST) Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:12:11 +0100 (BST) From: Michael O Jewell <[email protected]> To: [email protected] cc: [email protected] Subject: [EP-underground] Demo EPrints Archive Online! Message-ID: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> We have set up a server running the latest (i.e. most unstable) version of EPrints 2 over at http://demoprints.eprints.org. Feel free to prod, poke, use Kanji, and see what happens (or doesn't). Please don't report any bugs yet, but interface & design comments are welcome. The server will be reinstalled quite regularly with the latest CVS version of Ep2, so user records/submissions will magically vanish without warning, and things may break where they didn't break before :-) Enjoy! The Eprints Team From [email protected] Thu Aug 30 20:39:07 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA21073 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:39:07 +0100 Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA21070 for <[email protected]>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:39:06 +0100 Received: from coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (coglit [152.78.70.181]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA01737 for <[email protected]>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:38:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk (cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.179]) by coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA29151; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:44:55 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (harnad@localhost) by cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA12928; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:51:46 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: cogito.ecs.soton.ac.uk: harnad owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:51:45 +0100 (BST) From: Stevan Harnad <[email protected]> To: [email protected] cc: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Subject: [EP-underground] Inventory of Publishers' Copyright Policies? (fwd) Message-ID: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:48:04 +0100 From: Pauline Simpson <[email protected]> Reply-To: September 1998 American Scientist Forum <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Inventory of Publishers' Copyright Policies? In the course of canvassing for papers to put into the SOC Eprint Archive many scientists have asked what individual publishers' agreements do allow and whether it is worth making a summary to let people know about the policies of the various publishers? For exmple: current AGU policies http://www.agu.org/pubs/cprt_top.html appear to explicitly allow authors to distribute papers or parts of them through the institution or personal web sites. Interestingly, this is still slightly different from the policy for g-cubed: http://www.g-cubed.org/index.asp?ContentPage=about/copyright which seems to be even more permissive from an author's perspective. Has the eprint community done this as an exercise yet? I realise that publishers' policies change but has anyone done a snapshot survey and made it available? (I would offer, but just do not have the time to identify the copyright pages of the major publishers and aggregate them on a web page). I am now ready to put up the SOC Trial eprint archive and certainly the scientists want to see evidence of their submissions. Should I be waiting for eprints2 ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Pauline Simpson, Head of Information Services National Oceanographic Library Southampton Oceanography Centre University of Southampton Waterfront Campus, European Way, Southampton, SO14 3ZH, England Tel: 44-(0)23 8059 6111: Fax 44-(0)23 8059 6115 email: [email protected] Web : http://www.soc.soton.ac.uk From [email protected] Mon Sep 3 17:41:30 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA20832 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 17:41:30 +0100 Received: from raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.1]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA20826 for <[email protected]>; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 17:41:29 +0100 Received: from lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (IDENT:[email protected] [152.78.69.138]) by raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA12088; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 17:41:29 +0100 (BST) Received: (from cjg@localhost) by lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f83GgIZ18636; Mon, 3 Sep 2001 17:42:18 +0100 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 17:42:18 +0100 From: ePrints Support <[email protected]> To: [email protected], [email protected] Subject: [EP-underground] Registering EPrints Use and Interest Message-ID: <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> We've added a "Users" section to eprints.org so we can find out who is using (or thinking about using) eprints, for what, and what the are and aren't interested in. We encourage you to fill it in. Each user registered may then register archives, both development and live. The list of live archvies will probably eventually appear on the eprints.org frontpage (or nearby). It's worth filling out the preferences, even to say you don't care about a feature, that way we're less likely to waste time on it and more likely to work on something you do care on. <Data use statement> All information supplied is NOT considered to be in confidence, and will be reproduced on the website and may be used by eprints.org or other orginisations in promotional and other material. </Data use statement> -- Christopher Gutteridge [email protected] ePrints Technical Support +44 23 8059 4833 From [email protected] Sun Nov 18 23:01:48 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA01688 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:01:48 GMT Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA01684 for <[email protected]>; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:01:47 GMT Received: from coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (coglit [152.78.70.181]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA20290 for <[email protected]>; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:01:30 GMT Received: from localhost (harnad@localhost) by coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA09803; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:08:13 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk: harnad owned process doing -bs Newsgroups: bionet.journals.note Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 23:08:03 +0000 (GMT) From: Stevan Harnad <[email protected]> X-Sender: [email protected] To: September 1998 American Scientist Forum <[email protected]> cc: [email protected], [email protected], EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Subject: [EP-underground] Re: Central vs. Distributed Archives In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0111171707220.819-100000@salish.physik.uni-oldenburg.de> Message-ID: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk id XAA01686 Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> The current topic thread begins with: Central vs. Distributed Archives http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Hypermail/Amsci/0950.html See also the earlier thread: "Central" vs. "Distributed" Archives: A Red Herring http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Hypermail/Amsci/0294.html On Sat, 17 Nov 2001, Eberhard R. Hilf wrote: http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Hypermail/Amsci/1655.html > eh> Steve said the only way is using OAi-compliance by the author to > eh> self-archive his documents before and through refereeing. > eh> > eh> The word "only" is too much of a load. > eh> > eh> In Physics (and Mathematics) since a long time authors can self-archive > eh> their documents, without having to install any software or learn about > eh> OAi. They are automatically included into the OAi scheme by the > eh> OAi compliant service providers by using PhysDoc (or Math-Net) as gateways > eh> who take care of their document being included. My comrade-at-arms Ebs Hilf has misinterpreted the sense of my "only." He is of course quite right that central, discipline-based self-archiving (in OAI-compliant Eprints Archives) is likewise an effective and welcome form of self-archiving. However, as I wrote in the very next posting: http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Hypermail/Amsci/1654.html > sh> The Physics Archive [http://arxiv.org], for example, has over 150,000 > sh> articles, but cumulated across 10 years! At that rate, even for this > sh> most advanced of all the self-archiving disciplines, the year 2011 will > sh> be the first in which ALL the articles published in physics that > sh> year will be accessible for free for all: > sh> > sh> http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Tp/Digitometrics/img001.htm > sh> > sh> http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Tp/Digitometrics/img002.htm > sh> > sh> This is why institution-based self-archiving now needs to be vigorously > sh> supported and promoted to fast-forward us all to the optimal and > sh> inevitable for research and researchers. It was with this fact in mind that I had written written the earlier "only" passage: http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Hypermail/Amsci/1653.html > sh> The only sure way to free access to the entire refereed research > sh> literature online, right now, is for researchers themselves to take the > sh> initiative and self-archive it (in their own institutions' OAI-compliant > sh> Eprint Archives: http://www.arl.org/sparc/core/index.asp?page=g20#6 ) The force of the "only" was coupled with the sense of the "right now"! A researcher in any particular discipline today (other than Physics, Mathematics, or Cognitive Sciences) cannot take the initiative and self-archive his refereed research in a central archive for his discipline, because such central archives do not yet exist for most disciplines! Nor, where they do exist, are they filling anywhere near fast enough (see the 2 Digitometrics links above). Researchers' individual (and thereby collective) leverage (and rewards for publication and impact) operates largely at the level of their own institutions. Researchers need not install any software themselves, nor learn anything about OAi. They need only encourage their own universities to do so, out of shared self-interest in research visibility, uptake and impact: 7. What you can do now to free the refereed literature online http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Tp/resolution.htm#7 "Online or Invisible?" (Steve Lawrence) http://www.neci.nec.com/~lawrence/papers/online-nature01/ By way of OAI-interoperable central Eprint Archives, physicists and mathematicians today have http://arxiv.org and Ebs's PhysDoc (or Math-Net) http://physnet.uni-oldenburg.de/PhysNet/physdoc.html and Cognitive Scientists have http://cogprints.soton.ac.uk/ But for all the other disciplines, the fastest and surest path today is to have their own institutions install their own OAI-compliant Institutional Eprint Archives (using the free http://www.eprints.org software) as a growing number of universities and research institutions are now doing: Institute of Education, University of London, London, England University Library System, University of Pittsburgh http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu Centre pour la Communication Scientifique Directe http://eprinttheses.in2p3.fr Media Studies, University of Ulster, Coleraine, Northern Ireland Formations Media Studies Archive http://formations2.ulst.ac.uk/ California Institute of Technology http://caltechcstr.library.caltech.edu/ Instituto Brasileiro de Informacao em Ciencncia e Tecnologia http://www.sbg.ibict.br Institut Jacques Monod, Paris Department of Philosophy, University of Vienna http://eprints.philo.at University of Southampton, Southampton, UK http://demoprints.eprints.org/ RIACS, NASA Ames, Moffett Field CA http://horus.riacs.edu University of Nottingham, Nottingham http://www-db.library.nottingham.ac.uk/ep1 University of Rochester Libraries http://128.151.45.180/ Sissa Multimedia Database http://mmdb.sissa.it/ University of California Digital Libraries http://www.escholarship.cdlib.org/eprints.html History and Theory of Psychology http://htpprints.yorku.ca/ The American South http://www.americansouth.org/ Computer Science Technical Reports Iowa State University http://archives.cs.iastate.edu/ University of Glasgow http://eprints.lib.gla.ac.uk:333/ Hofprints Hofstra University http://eprints.lib.gla.ac.uk:333/ CSIRO Exploration and Mining http://www.ned.dem.csiro.au/eprints/ Università degli studi di Firenze http://biblio.unifi.it/ Central and Distributed Self-Archiving are complementary paths, converging on the same goal: the freeing of online access to the refereed research literature. All such Archives are integrable into the interopeable pantheon of OAI-compliant Archives Worldwide, which becomes a global "virtual collection" free for everyone, everywhere, forever: http://oaisrv.nsdl.cornell.edu/Register/BrowseSites.pl I repeat: The ONLY way to fast-forward ALL of the current research being published in the 20,000 refereed journals worldwide RIGHT NOW is through immediate author/institution self-archiving. Stevan Harnad NOTE: A complete archive of the ongoing discussion of providing free access to the refereed journal literature online is available at the American Scientist September Forum (98 & 99 & 00 & 01): http://amsci-forum.amsci.org/archives/september98-forum.html or http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Hypermail/Amsci/index.html You may join the list at the amsci site. Discussion can be posted to: [email protected] THREADER-LINK: eprints-underground.18.html From [email protected] Thu Nov 29 15:38:54 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA15653 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:38:54 GMT Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA15650 for <[email protected]>; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:38:53 GMT Received: from coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (coglit [152.78.70.181]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA16252; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:38:50 GMT Received: from localhost (harnad@localhost) by coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA10873; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:46:04 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk: harnad owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:46:04 +0000 (GMT) From: Stevan Harnad <[email protected]> X-Sender: [email protected] To: Steve Hitchcock <[email protected]> cc: Mike Jewell <[email protected]>, Chris Gutteridge <[email protected]>, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Subject: [EP-underground] EPrints for Archaeology? In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> On Thu, 29 Nov 2001, Steve Hitchcock wrote: > Internet Archaeology, an open access journal originally funded > by eLib, has announced that it will have to start charging for access. > Buried in this announcement is the problem of charging being > retrospective, i.e. to access the content of issues 2-11, previously free, > now incurs a charge. The editor justifies it like this: > > >The eLib extension grant allowed us to continue free access for longer > >than we had anticipated, but we still will be carrying the costs of > >maintenance for the 50+ articles in the back issues into perpetuity, which > >is the main reason why we chose to charge for these also. But it is also > >why we chose only to make a single one-off charge for them. > > I'm inclined to suggest that they set-up an EPrints archive, or find a > friendly EPrints archive to do it for them in a more cost-effective manner > than they seem able to manage. Do any come to mind? It would not be a good > idea to suggest it only to find that none could offer a suitable home. I am willing to create an Archeology Sector in CogPrints, unless an existing Eprint Archive responds that their subject matter is closer, and are willing to host it. If you have a suitable Eprints Archive, this is a good way to encourage further content. Please let me (or Steve Hitchcock) know. Stevan Harnad From [email protected] Fri Nov 30 09:07:27 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08366 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:07:27 GMT Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08360 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:07:23 GMT Received: from pump3.york.ac.uk (pump3.york.ac.uk [144.32.128.131]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA09306; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:07:21 GMT Received: from mailer.york.ac.uk (mailer.york.ac.uk [144.32.128.96]) by pump3.york.ac.uk (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id fAU96Jg09182; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:06:19 GMT Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:06:19 +0000 (GMT) From: JD Richards <[email protected]> To: Stevan Harnad <[email protected]>, Steve Hitchock <[email protected]>, Mike Jewell <[email protected]>, Chris Gutteridge <[email protected]>, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] cc: Judith Winters <[email protected]>, JD Richards <[email protected]> Subject: [EP-underground] Re: EPrints for Archaeology? Message-ID: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> I'm afraid that Steve Harnad's offer to find an archival home for Internet Archaeology, whilst no doubt well-intentioned, rather misses the point. I write as Director of the Archaeology Data Service which is the JISC/AHRB designated digital archive for archaeology, and therefore the body charged with the long term preservation of the journal Internet Archaeology. I'm afraid that this is where the use of the word "archive" as in Open Archives Initiative is potentially misleading. Digital archiving of multimedia content has to be a very active process, as I'm sure you're all well aware. Internet Archaeology is far more than a collection of eprint documents that can be put on a web server. Over the past 5 years it has published VR visualisations in VRML, QTVRs, video, a variety of databases, with a variety of interfaces, each relying on scripts and database server software on the server etc etc. All of these conform to elib and AHDS standards, but all require specialist expertise to maintain them as web servers and browsers change. I'd challenge any "Open Archive" to act as a real archive for this journal, let alone in "a more cost-effective manner than they seem able to manage". Julian Richards --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr Julian D. Richards Tel: +44 1904 433930 Director, Archaeology Data Service Fax: +44 1904 433902 Department of Archaeology Email: [email protected] University of York The King's Manor York, YO1 7EP, UK --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:46:04 +0000 (GMT) > Subject: EPrints for Archaeology? > > On Thu, 29 Nov 2001, Steve Hitchcock wrote: > > > Internet Archaeology, an open access journal originally funded > > by eLib, has announced that it will have to start charging for access. > > Buried in this announcement is the problem of charging being > > retrospective, i.e. to access the content of issues 2-11, previously free, > > now incurs a charge. The editor justifies it like this: > > > > >The eLib extension grant allowed us to continue free access for longer > > >than we had anticipated, but we still will be carrying the costs of > > >maintenance for the 50+ articles in the back issues into perpetuity, which > > >is the main reason why we chose to charge for these also. But it is also > > >why we chose only to make a single one-off charge for them. > > > > I'm inclined to suggest that they set-up an EPrints archive, or find a > > friendly EPrints archive to do it for them in a more cost-effective manner > > than they seem able to manage. Do any come to mind? It would not be a good > > idea to suggest it only to find that none could offer a suitable home. > > I am willing to create an Archeology Sector in CogPrints, unless > an existing Eprint Archive responds that their subject matter is > closer, and are willing to host it. > > If you have a suitable Eprints Archive, this is a good way to > encourage further content. Please let me (or Steve Hitchcock) > know. > > Stevan Harnad > > > > > > > From [email protected] Mon Dec 24 12:44:28 2001 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA25862 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 12:44:28 GMT Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA25859 for <[email protected]>; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 12:44:27 GMT Received: from coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (coglit [152.78.70.181]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA13519 for <[email protected]>; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 12:44:11 GMT Received: from localhost (harnad@localhost) by coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA20676; Mon, 24 Dec 2001 12:51:44 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk: harnad owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 12:51:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Stevan Harnad <[email protected]> X-Sender: [email protected] To: September 1998 American Scientist Forum <[email protected]> cc: [email protected], [email protected] Subject: [EP-underground] Re: Should Publishers Offer Free-Access Services? In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> On Sun, 23 Dec 2001, Thomas J. Walker wrote: > >PhysNet for the EPS: http://physnet.uni-oldenburg.de/PhysNet > > ...PhysNet is designed to make it easy to (among other > things) harvest what is on the home pages of members of physics > institutions... > ... > I then tested (2) with this sample of three papers and failed to find any > of the papers by using PhysNet--either by searching for the papers directly > or by using PhysNet to go directly to the authors' home pages. > ... > Although I failed to find any of the papers with PhysNet, I quickly found > two with Google (http://www.google.com). Google displayed a URL for the > PDF file of the third paper as well, but it was no longer the correct one. To draw any conclusions from this, it is necessary to put it into context. I will do this in a moment, but first let me point out some remarkable and highly relevant new resources under development by Xiaoming Liu at Old Dominion University: (1) ARC http://arc.cs.odu.edu/ a cross-archive harvester for OAI-compliant Eprint Archives and (2) DP9 http://arc.cs.odu.edu:8080/dp9/index.jsp an OAI gateway service for web crawlers. Now the context: We must distinguish between actual services that are available right now, and services that could readily be built once more of the full-text refereed literature is available in OAI-compliant Eprints Archives to build those services on top of and to apply them to. ARC, DP9, and CITE-BASE http://citebase.eprints.org/cgi-bin/search are examples of such services, already within reach and under development. It is in this light that the alternative strategies for increasing the free-access full-text content should be weighed, for otherwise our judgment is biassed by the undeniable but readily remediable (and one hopes temporary) fact that there is as yet still so little full-text refereed-article content archived and freely accessible on-line. The alternatives that we are weighing concern how to accelerate the free accessibility of more and more of that full-text content. Spawning the requisite services on top of the content is NOT the problem. Harnad, S. (2001) Six Proposals for Freeing the Refereed Literature Ariadne 28 June 2001. http://www.ariadne.ac.uk/issue28/minotaur/#1 http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Tp/ariadne.htm Stevan Harnad NOTE: A complete archive of the ongoing discussion of providing free access to the refereed journal literature online is available at the American Scientist September Forum (98 & 99 & 00 & 01): http://amsci-forum.amsci.org/archives/september98-forum.html or http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Hypermail/Amsci/index.html You may join the list at the amsci site. Discussion can be posted to: [email protected] From [email protected] Wed Jan 9 19:34:51 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA15227 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:34:51 GMT Received: from raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.1]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA15218 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:34:49 GMT Received: from lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (IDENT:[email protected] [152.78.69.138]) by raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA29301; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:37:45 GMT Received: (from cjg@localhost) by lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.11.2/8.9.3) id g09JaEX13923; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:36:14 GMT Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:36:14 +0000 From: ePrints Support <[email protected]> To: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Subject: [EP-underground] EPrints-2 Alpha-2 released Message-ID: <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> EPRINTS-2-ALPHA-2 released (09/01/2002) EPrints is free software for creating large web-based archives of papers (or whatever you want) with the metadata stored in an SQL back end. EPrints v1 is in use by a number of sites (see eprints.org) for a list. Using our own ideas and feedback from users we have created eprints-2. This is only an alpha release so not all the features work yet (that would be beta), but the main parts of the system are complete. EPrints-2 new features: - multilanguage support (site in french & english if you really wanted), option to have multilingual metadata - eg. the title and abstract in english & french and presented in the language of the user viewing. - XML configuration files rather than ASCII - a bit harder to get started but ensures no ambiguity and lets you have non-ASCII characters. - OO design. Although the functions are not fixed in stone the system has been built to be strictly OO (well, as strict as PERL will let it be) and it will be possible to build your own scripts to process the database without having to start using SQL. - The phrase files used for internationalisation are also useful to customise the interface without having to hack the code. - Much of the website look and feel is done with style-sheets, again to avoid the need for hacking the code. - Support for other authentication methods eg. LDAP using 3rd party modules currently available. - Abstraction of the SQL. - configurable searches (what fields do you want to be offered as user search pages?) A couple of notable features which are not yet implemented: - alerts - users can configure a once-a-week (or whatever) search and be mailed if any new items appear in it each week. - OAI support. This is very important to us, but is not on the critical path to making the software work. It will be added in a later version. If you really can't wait the software is available online from: http://www.eprints.org/files/eprints2/eprints2-alpha-2.tar.gz But you should be aware that it requires apache with some configuration options to run effiently + some other freely available software such as MySQL. Install info is included in the .tar.gz in the docs dir. I welcome and look forward to comments, abuse, praise, bug- reports etc. The EPrints.org 2 server is being developed at the University of Southampton. Mostly by me, Christopher Gutteridge, with a bit of help from Mike Jewell. -- Christopher Gutteridge [email protected] ePrints Technical Support +44 23 8059 4833 From [email protected] Wed Jan 9 20:09:16 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16087 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:09:16 GMT Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA16084 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:09:15 GMT Received: from coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (coglit [152.78.70.181]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA23714; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:09:02 GMT Received: from localhost (harnad@localhost) by coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA21954; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:16:51 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk: harnad owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 20:16:50 +0000 (GMT) From: Stevan Harnad <[email protected]> X-Sender: [email protected] To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> cc: Chris Gutteridge <[email protected]>, Les Carr EJ <[email protected]>, Mike Jewell <[email protected]>, Tim Brody <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EP-underground] EPrints-2 Alpha-2 released In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Dear Chris, > EPRINTS-2-ALPHA-2 released (09/01/2002) Congratulations, but: > A couple of notable features which are not yet implemented: > - OAI support. This is very important to us, but is not on > the critical path to making the software work. It will be > added in a later version. Not OAI? I don't understand. I thought the whole point of Eprints was that it was supposed to produce a quick, easy OAI Archive! (I still don't quite understand the backward compatibility matter either. Please, please remember that our first, second and Nth goal is to get universities to adopt and fill these archives, as soon and as full as possible. Without OAI interoperability, without being able to upload prior versions' contents, without super-easy installation, we aren't moving toward our real objectives but something else!) Please explain to me where we are and where we are going... Chrs, S From [email protected] Wed Jan 9 21:42:29 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA18603 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:42:29 GMT Received: from raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.1]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA18600 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:42:27 GMT Received: from lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (IDENT:[email protected] [152.78.69.138]) by raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA04074 for <[email protected]>; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:45:25 GMT Received: (from cjg@localhost) by lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.11.2/8.9.3) id g09LhsP14232 for [email protected]; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:43:54 GMT Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:43:54 +0000 From: Systems - cjg <[email protected]> To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EP-underground] EPrints-2 Alpha-2 released Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from [email protected] on Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 08:16:50PM +0000 Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> do not panic! this in not the finished version of eprints-2 it's a development version. The first really installable version. There's not much point getting OAI support working until you can add papers! EPrints 2 uses a much more complex database than eprints 1 which means it's not trivial to upgrade - the configuration is different too. The current plan on that is to make a script which will export an eprints 1 archive and write the eprints-2 config files. EPrints-2 should feel alot more "professional" to administrate than eprints-1 which was not very sysadmin friendly. This version should cause less (none?) of the pains which people disliked eprints-1 for. It's never going to be a no-brainer to install eprints but it's now much easier. Also most of the problems will be with site-specific configurations - getting the right metadata and correctly describing it. I don't see how we can make it easier, except by providing a number of different default configurations for things like institutional archive, subject archive, conference archive, e-journal etc. I however do not have the expertise to do this. On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 08:16:50PM +0000, Stevan Harnad wrote: > Dear Chris, > > > EPRINTS-2-ALPHA-2 released (09/01/2002) > > Congratulations, but: > > > A couple of notable features which are not yet implemented: > > - OAI support. This is very important to us, but is not on > > the critical path to making the software work. It will be > > added in a later version. > > Not OAI? I don't understand. I thought the whole point of Eprints > was that it was supposed to produce a quick, easy OAI Archive! > > (I still don't quite understand the backward compatibility matter > either. Please, please remember that our first, second and Nth > goal is to get universities to adopt and fill these archives, > as soon and as full as possible. Without OAI interoperability, > without being able to upload prior versions' contents, without > super-easy installation, we aren't moving toward our real > objectives but something else!) > > Please explain to me where we are and where we are going... > > Chrs, S -- Christopher Gutteridge <[email protected]> Tel: 02380 594833 Systems Administration, Department of Electronics & Computer Science, University of Southampton, England. From [email protected] Tue Jan 15 10:12:57 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA00988 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:12:57 GMT Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA00984 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:12:56 GMT Received: from mailrouter2.strath.ac.uk (harris.cc.strath.ac.uk [130.159.248.11]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11469 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:12:35 GMT Received: from [130.159.248.48] (helo=vrouter1.strath.ac.uk) by mailrouter2.strath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.14 #1) id 16QQa3-0002CJ-00 for [email protected]; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:12:35 +0000 Received: from orkney.cc.strath.ac.uk ([130.159.248.40] helo=mailrouter1.strath.ac.uk) by khafre.cc.strath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16QQZf-0002pY-00 for [email protected]; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:12:11 +0000 Received: from puma.cdlr.strath.ac.uk ([130.159.238.182] helo=PUMA.strath.ac.uk) by mailrouter1.strath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #2) id 16QQZV-0004GE-00 for [email protected]; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:12:01 +0000 Message-Id: <[email protected]> X-Sender: [email protected] X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:20:56 +0000 To: [email protected] From: Bob Kemp <[email protected]> Subject: [EP-underground] Sustaining ePrints Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Mail-Scan: clean X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Hi everyone, This itemis about an issue suggested to me by Chrisopher Gutteridge's recent eprints_tech post, where he mentioned whilst discussing ePrints v2 that "there is a HUGE amount of my life in that code". It reminded me of a question that cropped up in recent discussion here at Strathclyde about the longer term future of the ePrints software - how long will it be around if it's only one man in a university department dependent on short term funding? First I'd like to ask a couple of questions and establish the facts - I guess Christopher may be able to help here. As I understand it, the ePrints software development is currently funded as part of the Open Citation project. Is this correct? If so, how long will this last, and what strategies exist for the continuation of ePrints software development after the project's end? Then I'd be interested to hear what everyone thinks regarding what we can do as a community to support ePrints and ensure its longevity. Cheers, Bob Dr Bob Kemp Information Officer, Digital Information Office Centre for Digital Library Research University of Strathclyde, Glasgow G4 0NS Phone: +44 (0)141 548 2379 FAX: +44 (0)141 548 2102 From [email protected] Tue Jan 15 10:50:51 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA02364 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:50:51 GMT Received: from raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.1]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02361 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:50:50 GMT Received: from lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (IDENT:[email protected] [152.78.69.138]) by raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA29802 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:53:57 GMT Received: (from cjg@localhost) by lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.11.2/8.9.3) id g0FAqHo03155 for [email protected]; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:52:17 GMT Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:52:17 +0000 From: Christopher Gutteridge <[email protected]> To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EP-underground] Sustaining ePrints Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from [email protected] on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:20:56AM +0000 Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> I'm the lacky so I'll let someone else explain the funding, as I'm baffled by that kind of thing. I'm sure Professor Harnad will respond to the financial backing. A large part of the coding has been done on my own time, as it really needs doing (and I actually love coding, like some people like sports). I understand that we have plans to increase our level of support. As far as I'm concerned I'll keep doing it until physically prevented. If I cared about money I'd get a job in industry (heh) One of the reasons for making the code GPL is that should we decide tomorrow to stop doing it (ain't going to happen), or I get hit by a bus (I *hope* that won't happen) then anyone can take over the development without legal problems. If you hated some of my code, you could spin off your own version (but I'd rather you didn't). This is my first big project so I'm still learning the ropes, and how to split my time between support/v1 maintenence/v2 development. I aplologise if I sometimes make the wrong call. Currently the department is looking to hire some new staff members to take over some of my other responsibilities, which should free up some more time. By alot of my life, I mean that I've more or less given up several activities such as computer games and reading so I can spend the time coding. I had a CVS commit at 0500GMT on 26/12/2001 - go figure. And when you say "only" one man. That's _me_, I'm worth four or five :) On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:20:56AM +0000, Bob Kemp wrote: > Hi everyone, > > This itemis about an issue suggested to me by Chrisopher Gutteridge's > recent eprints_tech post, where he mentioned whilst discussing ePrints > v2 that "there is a HUGE amount of my life in that code". It reminded me > of a question that cropped up in recent discussion here at Strathclyde > about the longer term future of the ePrints software - how long will it be > around if it's only one man in a university department dependent on short > term funding? > > First I'd like to ask a couple of questions and establish the facts - I > guess Christopher may be able to help here. As I understand it, the ePrints > software development is currently funded as part of the Open Citation > project. Is this correct? If so, how long will this last, and what > strategies exist for the continuation of ePrints software development after > the project's end? > > Then I'd be interested to hear what everyone thinks regarding what we can > do as a community to support ePrints and ensure its longevity. > > Cheers, > > Bob > > Dr Bob Kemp > Information Officer, Digital Information Office > Centre for Digital Library Research > University of Strathclyde, Glasgow G4 0NS > > Phone: +44 (0)141 548 2379 FAX: +44 (0)141 548 2102 -- Christopher Gutteridge -- [email protected] -- +44 (0)23 8059 4833 ,___O< _______________________(___)______________________________________________ | | | | Now Playing: "Lexington '59" | A generation which ignores history | | from "Bang!" - An Open Letter - | has no past -- and no future. -- | | The Hafler Trio | From "The Notebooks of Lazarus | | | Long" by Robert Heinlein | |___________________________________|______________________________________| From [email protected] Tue Jan 15 12:29:35 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA05857 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:29:35 GMT Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05854 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:29:34 GMT Received: from beast.mikesroom.org (host217-39-63-174.in-addr.btopenworld.com [217.39.63.174]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA20909 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:26:23 GMT Received: (from mike@localhost) by beast.mikesroom.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) id g0FCLq829735 for [email protected]; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:21:52 GMT Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:21:52 +0000 From: Mike Jewell <[email protected]> To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EP-underground] Sustaining ePrints Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from [email protected] on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:52:17AM +0000 X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Hi! I think the key part to keeping EPrints going is getting users to maintain and update the code. EPrints2 is GPL so it's perfectly fine for people to grab the code, fork off new versions, tweak things, add things, etc. A good example here is the Linux kernel itself - it's not the nicest code around, but it's got such a strong developer-base that it's still going. Alan Cox was asked a similar question ('What if Linus were hit by a bus?') and he comments that 'people [would] just kind of take over the work.' (http://www.linux-mag.com/1999-09/cox_02.html.) Admittedly EPrints2 isn't the Linux Kernel (despite appearances ;-) so it will be harder to get developers on board. As the number of installations of EPrints2 grows, however, I'd hope that each install is maintained by a sysadmin or similar techie. I wonder if, once the code has crystallised, it could be a good idea to try to get some of these admins together to help maintain areas of the code? EPrints2 is very modular - you can tweak the database code without going anywhere near the other modules for example - so it wouldn't be hard to have an 'OAI development team' or a 'Database backend development team'. Obviously it's not at the stage where this can be done yet but once EPrints2 is released I think this could be a Really Good Thing (tm). The code is getting increasingly coder-friendly (as I've found), and the comments are rapidly growing in number. Oddly, some people claim that having to use comments is a sign of bad coding, but I don't believe them :-). I have the same sort of approach to coding as Chris - I'd gladly work on EPrints for nothing if I had the time (although I probably shouldn't be saying that!). At the moment I haven't got that time (finals getting in the way) but once they're over I'm hoping to get back to it :-) I'm certain that there are more people like us out there, and I imagine quite a few of them will be maintaining the EPrints2 installations! Whew, I think that's my 2 euros. Oh, and for what it's worth - I saw that CVS commit go in! :o) Cheers, Mike On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:52:17AM +0000, Christopher Gutteridge wrote: > I'm the lacky so I'll let someone else explain the funding, as I'm baffled > by that kind of thing. I'm sure Professor Harnad will respond to the financial > backing. > > A large part of the coding has been done on my own time, as it really needs > doing (and I actually love coding, like some people like sports). I understand > that we have plans to increase our level of support. As far as I'm concerned > I'll keep doing it until physically prevented. If I cared about money I'd get > a job in industry (heh) > > One of the reasons for making the code GPL is that should we decide tomorrow > to stop doing it (ain't going to happen), or I get hit by a bus (I *hope* that > won't happen) then anyone can take over the development without legal problems. > If you hated some of my code, you could spin off your own version (but I'd > rather you didn't). > > This is my first big project so I'm still learning the ropes, and how to split > my time between support/v1 maintenence/v2 development. I aplologise if I > sometimes make the wrong call. Currently the department is looking to hire > some new staff members to take over some of my other responsibilities, which > should free up some more time. > > By alot of my life, I mean that I've more or less given up several activities > such as computer games and reading so I can spend the time coding. I had a > CVS commit at 0500GMT on 26/12/2001 - go figure. And when you say "only" one > man. That's _me_, I'm worth four or five :) > > > > On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:20:56AM +0000, Bob Kemp wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > This itemis about an issue suggested to me by Chrisopher Gutteridge's > > recent eprints_tech post, where he mentioned whilst discussing ePrints > > v2 that "there is a HUGE amount of my life in that code". It reminded me > > of a question that cropped up in recent discussion here at Strathclyde > > about the longer term future of the ePrints software - how long will it be > > around if it's only one man in a university department dependent on short > > term funding? > > > > First I'd like to ask a couple of questions and establish the facts - I > > guess Christopher may be able to help here. As I understand it, the ePrints > > software development is currently funded as part of the Open Citation > > project. Is this correct? If so, how long will this last, and what > > strategies exist for the continuation of ePrints software development after > > the project's end? > > > > Then I'd be interested to hear what everyone thinks regarding what we can > > do as a community to support ePrints and ensure its longevity. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Bob > > > > Dr Bob Kemp > > Information Officer, Digital Information Office > > Centre for Digital Library Research > > University of Strathclyde, Glasgow G4 0NS > > > > Phone: +44 (0)141 548 2379 FAX: +44 (0)141 548 2102 > > -- > Christopher Gutteridge -- [email protected] -- +44 (0)23 8059 4833 > > ,___O< > _______________________(___)______________________________________________ > | | | > | Now Playing: "Lexington '59" | A generation which ignores history | > | from "Bang!" - An Open Letter - | has no past -- and no future. -- | > | The Hafler Trio | From "The Notebooks of Lazarus | > | | Long" by Robert Heinlein | > |___________________________________|______________________________________| -- Mike Jewell <[email protected]> | I think we're in trouble. -- Han Solo http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~moj199 | | Now playing: | Nothing :( | From [email protected] Tue Jan 15 12:47:01 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA06366 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:47:01 GMT Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA06363 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:47:00 GMT Received: from coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (coglit [152.78.70.181]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA22014 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:44:03 GMT Received: from localhost (harnad@localhost) by coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA25638; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:51:56 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: coglit.ecs.soton.ac.uk: harnad owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:51:56 +0000 (GMT) From: Stevan Harnad <[email protected]> X-Sender: [email protected] To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Subject: [EP-underground] Sustaining ePrints In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> On Tue, 15 Jan 2002, Bob Kemp <[email protected]> wrote: > This item is about an issue suggested to me by Chrisopher Gutteridge's > recent eprints_tech post, where he mentioned whilst discussing ePrints > v2 that "there is a HUGE amount of my life in that code". It reminded me > of a question that cropped up in recent discussion here at Strathclyde > about the longer term future of the ePrints software - how long will it be > around if it's only one man in a university department dependent on short > term funding? > > First I'd like to ask a couple of questions and establish the facts - I > guess Christopher may be able to help here. As I understand it, the ePrints > software development is currently funded as part of the Open Citation > project. Is this correct? If so, how long will this last, and what > strategies exist for the continuation of ePrints software development after > the project's end? > > Then I'd be interested to hear what everyone thinks regarding what we can > do as a community to support ePrints and ensure its longevity. > > Dr Bob Kemp > Information Officer, Digital Information Office > Centre for Digital Library Research > University of Strathclyde, Glasgow G4 0NS > Phone: +44 (0)141 548 2379 FAX: +44 (0)141 548 2102 I have branched this more widely because the question is important: OPSIS has been funded by JISC/JCEI/DNER (1) to continuously upgrade the Eprints code, fixing bugs, adding enhancements, and keeping it compliant with OAI upgrades, (2) to provide support for Universities adopting it and (3) to open-source the code. Eprints is funded by JISC/JCEI/DNER for a year as the OPSIS project, but it is also receiving some support from its sister project, OPCIT (funded by JISC/Elib as well as NSF for what is now the 3rd of 3 years). Eprints has been doing very well so far and I don't think it should have any difficulty in finding further funding. What ensures its longevity is increasing collective utilisation (and hence commitment) by the academic community worldwide. This means increasing adoption of the Eprints software for institutional self-archiving by universities, in the first instance, but, even more important, the exercise of systematic and energetic measures by the universities to ensure that their Eprints archives are filled by their researchers. The longevity of Eprints is a legitimate concern. But creating an ever greater momentum to fill university Eprints archives is an even more substantive concern, and success in meeting it is the best way to meet the first concern as well. So I would say, yes, let those who have adopted Eprints and are relying on it already make their voices heard on the importance of sustaining Eprints, but, even more important, let them put as much concerted effort as possible into filling their own existing archives, as well as encouraging the creation of further archives. The very best argument for funding sustained support is strong evidence of a growing portion of our intellectual eggs being consigned to this collective basket. OPCIT: http://opcit.eprints.org/ Eprints: http://www.eprints.org/ Eprints Registry: http://www.eprints.org/users.php OAI Registry: http://arc.cs.odu.edu:8080/dp9/index.jsp Review of Eprints in ARL/SPARC E-News by CalTech: http://www.arl.org/sparc/core/index.asp?page=g20#6 What can be done to help: 7.1. Researchers: self-archive all present, future (& past) papers http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Tp/resolution.htm#7.1 7.2. Universities: Install Eprint Archives, mandate them; help in author start-up http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Tp/resolution.htm#7.2 7.3. Libraries: Maintain the University Eprint archives; help in author start-up http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Tp/resolution.htm#7.3 7.6. Government/Society: mandate public archiving of public research worldwide http://www.cogsci.soton.ac.uk/~harnad/Tp/resolution.htm#7.6 Stevan Harnad From [email protected] Tue Jan 15 13:20:05 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA07447 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:20:05 GMT Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA07438 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:20:04 GMT Received: from concorde.inria.fr (concorde.inria.fr [192.93.2.39]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA24580 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:19:51 GMT Received: from tafia.inria.fr (tafia.inria.fr [128.93.8.114]) by concorde.inria.fr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with ESMTP id g0FDJnb14026; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:19:49 +0100 (MET) Received: (from lang@localhost) by tafia.inria.fr (8.8.7/8.8.7) id OAA25760; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:29:09 +0100 Message-ID: <[email protected]> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:29:09 +0100 From: Bernard Lang <[email protected]> To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]>, [email protected] Subject: [EP-underground] Re: Sustaining ePrints References: <[email protected]> <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2 In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from Christopher Gutteridge on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:13:45PM +0000 X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> How does one know how long software development will last ? In the case of commercial software ... as long as the company (and that is not too predictable these days) or as long as a given company think it is worthwhile and not hampering another more profitable market (not very predictable either). In the case of free software (free as in freedom), it usually last as long as it is sufficiently useful to a community of users so that they will find ways of investing a little bit in it. How do you think Linux has picked up 27% of the server market ? Why do you think Linux is getting a major position in embedded systems market, and especially in applications where longevity is critical ? There is a lot of literature on that issue ... all over the net. Cordialement Bernard On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 01:13:45PM +0000, Christopher Gutteridge wrote: > I'm the lackey so I'll let someone else explain the funding, as I'm > baffled by that kind of thing. I'm sure Professor Harnad will respond > to the financial backing. > > A large part of the coding has been done on my own time, as it really > needs doing (and I actually love coding, like some people like sports). > I understand that we have plans to increase our level of support. As > far as I'm concerned I'll keep doing it until physically prevented. If > I cared about money I'd get a job in industry (heh) > > One of the reasons for making the code GPL is that should we decide > tomorrow to stop doing it (ain't going to happen), or I get hit by a > bus (I *hope* that won't happen) then anyone can take over the > development without legal problems. If you hated some of my code, you > could spin off your own version (but I'd rather you didn't). > > This is my first big project so I'm still learning the ropes, and how > to split my time between support/v1 maintenence/v2 development. I > aplologise if I sometimes make the wrong call. Currently the department > is looking to hire some new staff members to take over some of my other > responsibilities, which should free up some more time. > > By a lot of my life, I mean that I've more or less given up several > activities such as computer games and reading so I can spend the time > coding. I had a CVS commit at 0500GMT on 26/12/2001 - go figure. And > when you say "only" one man. That's _me_, I'm worth four or five :) > > Christopher Gutteridge -- [email protected] -- +44 (0)23 8059 4833 > > On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 10:20:56AM +0000, Bob Kemp wrote: > > > This itemis about an issue suggested to me by Chrisopher Gutteridge's > > recent eprints_tech post, where he mentioned whilst discussing ePrints > > v2 that "there is a HUGE amount of my life in that code". It reminded me > > of a question that cropped up in recent discussion here at Strathclyde > > about the longer term future of the ePrints software - how long will it be > > around if it's only one man in a university department dependent on short > > term funding? > > > > First I'd like to ask a couple of questions and establish the facts - I > > guess Christopher may be able to help here. As I understand it, the ePrints > > software development is currently funded as part of the Open Citation > > project. Is this correct? If so, how long will this last, and what > > strategies exist for the continuation of ePrints software development after > > the project's end? > > > > Then I'd be interested to hear what everyone thinks regarding what we can > > do as a community to support ePrints and ensure its longevity. > > > > Dr Bob Kemp > > Information Officer, Digital Information Office > > Centre for Digital Library Research > > University of Strathclyde, Glasgow G4 0NS > > > > Phone: +44 (0)141 548 2379 FAX: +44 (0)141 548 2102 > > -- -- Non aux Brevets Logiciels - No to Software Patents SIGNEZ http://petition.eurolinux.org/ SIGN [email protected] ,_ /\o \o/ Tel +33 1 3963 5644 http://pauillac.inria.fr/~lang/ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Fax +33 1 3963 5469 INRIA / B.P. 105 / 78153 Le Chesnay CEDEX / France Je n'exprime que mon opinion - I express only my opinion CAGED BEHIND WINDOWS or FREE WITH LINUX From [email protected] Tue Jan 15 13:53:00 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA08580 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:53:00 GMT Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA08576 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:52:59 GMT Received: from mailrouter2.strath.ac.uk (harris.cc.strath.ac.uk [130.159.248.11]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26849 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:52:42 GMT Received: from [130.159.248.48] (helo=vrouter1.strath.ac.uk) by mailrouter2.strath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.14 #1) id 16QU14-0006Qd-00; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:52:42 +0000 Received: from orkney.cc.strath.ac.uk ([130.159.248.40] helo=mailrouter1.strath.ac.uk) by khafre.cc.strath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16QU0v-0001or-00; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:52:33 +0000 Received: from puma.cdlr.strath.ac.uk ([130.159.238.182] helo=PUMA.strath.ac.uk) by mailrouter1.strath.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.32 #2) id 16QU0l-0004DW-00; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:52:23 +0000 Message-Id: <[email protected]> X-Sender: [email protected] X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:01:17 +0000 To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> From: Bob Kemp <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EP-underground] Sustaining ePrints Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] In-Reply-To: <[email protected] .ac.uk> References: <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Mail-Scan: clean X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Hi again, Thanks for the contributions from Chris, Mike and Stevan. Stevan says: >The longevity of Eprints is a legitimate concern. But creating an >ever greater momentum to fill university Eprints archives is an >even more substantive concern, and success in meeting it is the best >way to meet the first concern as well. I agree totally - it's a case of making a commitment and jumping in at the deep end. However, there's an element of Catch-22 here. Eprints will be sustainable if ePrints is successful. But ePrints will be (more) successful if we can show it to be sustainable....we have to get over the initial hump. More specifically, the problem is that at local institutional level not everybody is ready for an eprint commitment. We are going through a process of education and persuasion in order to convince people that what we are engaged in is a feasible and legitimate activity that will provide an important long-term service. This involves a number of issues, and Stevan for one has provided plenty of good arguments to deploy. What we're developing here is another argument, being able to point to the underlying tools and say that these are going to be available, stable, and supported for many years to come. Having these contributions from Christopher, Mike and Stevan certainly makes it easier for me to make a case here at Strathclyde, and I imagine this applies elsewhere. Cheers, Bob Dr Bob Kemp Information Officer, Digital Information Office Centre for Digital Library Research University of Strathclyde, Glasgow G4 0NS Phone: +44 (0)141 548 2379 FAX: +44 (0)141 548 2102 From [email protected] Tue Jan 15 16:42:41 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA14745 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:42:41 GMT Received: from raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.1]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA14742 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:42:40 GMT Received: from lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (IDENT:[email protected] [152.78.69.138]) by raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA25666 for <[email protected]>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:45:47 GMT Received: (from cjg@localhost) by lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.11.2/8.9.3) id g0FGi7h04356 for [email protected]; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:44:07 GMT Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:44:07 +0000 From: Christopher Gutteridge <[email protected]> To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [EP-underground] Sustaining ePrints Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected] .ac.uk> <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from [email protected] on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:01:17PM +0000 Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> [response to ep-underground only] I'm also reconsidering my statement about no more ep-1 series releases, Tim Brody tells me that he's identified a few incorrect responses from the OAI interface under certain conditions, and the example of the URI problem implies that there is a continuing "market" for eprints-1 service upgrades. On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:01:17PM +0000, Bob Kemp wrote: > Hi again, > > Thanks for the contributions from Chris, Mike and Stevan. > > Stevan says: > > >The longevity of Eprints is a legitimate concern. But creating an > >ever greater momentum to fill university Eprints archives is an > >even more substantive concern, and success in meeting it is the best > >way to meet the first concern as well. > > I agree totally - it's a case of making a commitment and jumping in at the > deep end. However, there's an element of Catch-22 here. Eprints will be > sustainable if ePrints is successful. But ePrints will be (more) successful > if we can show it to be sustainable....we have to get over the initial hump. > > More specifically, the problem is that at local institutional level not > everybody is ready for an eprint commitment. We are going through a process > of education and persuasion in order to convince people that what we are > engaged in is a feasible and legitimate activity that will provide an > important long-term service. This involves a number of issues, and Stevan > for one has provided plenty of good arguments to deploy. > > What we're developing here is another argument, being able to point to the > underlying tools and say that these are going to be available, stable, and > supported for many years to come. Having these contributions from > Christopher, Mike and Stevan certainly makes it easier for me to make a > case here at Strathclyde, and I imagine this applies elsewhere. > > Cheers, > > Bob > > > Dr Bob Kemp > Information Officer, Digital Information Office > Centre for Digital Library Research > University of Strathclyde, Glasgow G4 0NS > > Phone: +44 (0)141 548 2379 FAX: +44 (0)141 548 2102 -- Christopher Gutteridge -- [email protected] -- +44 (0)23 8059 4833 ,___O< ________(___)_____________________________________________________________ | | | | Now Playing: "Sunrise" from Fin | A pacifist male is a contradiction | | De Siècle - The Divine Comedy | in terms. Most self-described | | | pacifists are not pacific; they | | | simply assume false colors. When | | | the wind changes, they hoist the | | | Jolly Roger. -- From "The Notebooks | | | of Lazarus Long" by Robert Heinlein | |___________________________________|______________________________________| From [email protected] Fri Jan 18 11:37:36 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA05564 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:37:36 GMT Received: from raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.1]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05561 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:37:35 GMT Received: from lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (IDENT:[email protected] [152.78.69.138]) by raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18276; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:40:43 GMT Received: (from cjg@localhost) by lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.11.2/8.9.3) id g0IBcwo14389; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:38:58 GMT Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:38:58 +0000 From: ePrints Support <[email protected]> To: Bob Kemp <[email protected]> Cc: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]>, [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Subject: Re: [OAI-general] Re: [EP-underground] Sustaining ePrints Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <[email protected] .ac.uk> <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from [email protected] on Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:01:17PM +0000 Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> One issue in the design of eprints-2 is that it is geared up to allow many (smaller) archives to be run on one physical computer. Which means that a larger organisation could buy one "chunky" computer and then provide eprints archives with seperate customisations, OAI exports (and colour schemes) for various departments which don't have the resources and expertise to do this themseleves. This should reduce the cost in parts (and system admin hours!) to get several archives going. I can even imagine, long term, someone offering a "hosting" service for a fee where they actually administrate the archive and do the "hard stuff" plus own the computer and networking, and look after dull things like backups, and upgrades. An "archive farm" if you will. This would probably work out more cost effective than buying and installing a machine and having learn the ins-and outs of the system for a single archive. EPrints is free, so we don't have to grub for licenses by requiring one copy per archive :) My own server, running eprints-alpha-2, is running demoprints.eprints.org, eprints.aktors.org + a couple of other test archives. Later, it will be running our department publications archive and an archive of Ted Nelsons material. The bottle neck is processor power, caused by larger datasets but mostly by "hits". So large, popular archives should probably run on their own machine. On Tue, Jan 15, 2002 at 02:01:17PM +0000, Bob Kemp wrote: > Hi again, > > Thanks for the contributions from Chris, Mike and Stevan. > > Stevan says: > > >The longevity of Eprints is a legitimate concern. But creating an > >ever greater momentum to fill university Eprints archives is an > >even more substantive concern, and success in meeting it is the best > >way to meet the first concern as well. > > I agree totally - it's a case of making a commitment and jumping in at the > deep end. However, there's an element of Catch-22 here. Eprints will be > sustainable if ePrints is successful. But ePrints will be (more) successful > if we can show it to be sustainable....we have to get over the initial hump. > > More specifically, the problem is that at local institutional level not > everybody is ready for an eprint commitment. We are going through a process > of education and persuasion in order to convince people that what we are > engaged in is a feasible and legitimate activity that will provide an > important long-term service. This involves a number of issues, and Stevan > for one has provided plenty of good arguments to deploy. > > What we're developing here is another argument, being able to point to the > underlying tools and say that these are going to be available, stable, and > supported for many years to come. Having these contributions from > Christopher, Mike and Stevan certainly makes it easier for me to make a > case here at Strathclyde, and I imagine this applies elsewhere. > > Cheers, > > Bob > > > Dr Bob Kemp > Information Officer, Digital Information Office > Centre for Digital Library Research > University of Strathclyde, Glasgow G4 0NS > > Phone: +44 (0)141 548 2379 FAX: +44 (0)141 548 2102 > > _______________________________________________ > OAI-general mailing list > [email protected] > http://oaisrv.nsdl.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oai-general -- Christopher Gutteridge [email protected] ePrints Technical Support +44 23 8059 4833 From [email protected] Fri Jan 18 17:43:31 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA17542 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:43:31 GMT Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA17539 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:43:30 GMT Received: from dungeon.library (dungeon.library.caltech.edu [131.215.225.2]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA02869 for <[email protected]>; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 17:40:26 GMT From: [email protected] Received: by dungeon.library.caltech.edu with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <C5M86YQL>; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:40:18 -0800 Message-ID: <0C2C50C9B668D311878100A0C9EA3676BAFE91@dungeon.library.caltech.edu> To: [email protected], [email protected] Cc: [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Subject: RE: [OAI-general] Re: [EP-underground] Sustaining ePrints Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:40:10 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> > -----Original Message----- > From: ePrints Support [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 3:39 AM > To: Bob Kemp > Cc: EPrints Underground List; [email protected]; > [email protected]; > [email protected] > Subject: Re: [OAI-general] Re: [EP-underground] Sustaining ePrints > > > One issue in the design of eprints-2 is that it is geared up to allow > many (smaller) archives to be run on one physical computer. > Which means > that a larger organisation could buy one "chunky" computer and then > provide eprints archives with seperate customisations, OAI > exports (and > colour schemes) for various departments which don't have the > resources and > expertise to do this themseleves. This should reduce the cost > in parts (and > system admin hours!) to get several archives going. In addition, should a particular archive become heavily used, moving it to a dedicated box is a snap. You really loose nothing with a multi-archive (versus monolith) design, and gain so much. Thanks to OAI protocols, developing an institute wide interface to all the small archives isn't much of a hassle -- in fact kinda unnecessary due to ARC (http://arc.cs.odu.edu/). If you can't tell, I'm a fan of this design. > This would probably work out more cost effective than buying > and installing > a machine and having learn the ins-and outs of the system for a single > archive. EPrints is free, so we don't have to grub for > licenses by requiring > one copy per archive :) Hurrah for free (GPL) software! > My own server, running eprints-alpha-2, is running > demoprints.eprints.org, > eprints.aktors.org + a couple of other test archives. Later, > it will be > running our department publications archive and an archive of > Ted Nelsons > material. > > The bottle neck is processor power, caused by larger datasets > but mostly > by "hits". So large, popular archives should probably run on > their own > machine. Some more metrics: on my un-optimized server, eprints/apache/mysql altogether require about 40MB of memory per archive. Most web hits are from robots and some from OAI harvesters (as it should be). We have 10 archives now, though some are just skeletons waiting for our authors to "see the light" so to speak. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ed Sponsler - Sr. Applications Development Caltech Library System [email protected] http://library.caltech.edu/digital From [email protected] Mon Jan 21 11:25:03 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA25594 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:25:03 GMT Received: from raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.70.1]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA25588 for <[email protected]>; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:25:00 GMT Received: from lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (IDENT:[email protected] [152.78.69.138]) by raven.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18318; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:28:13 GMT Received: (from cjg@localhost) by lemur.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.11.2/8.9.3) id g0LBQNx28863; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:26:23 GMT Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:26:23 +0000 From: ePrints Support <[email protected]> To: Chris Rusbridge <[email protected]>, [email protected] Cc: "'H.M. Gladney'" <[email protected]>, "'[email protected]'" <[email protected]> Subject: [EP-underground] Re: [OAI-general] RE: OAI-general digest, Vol 1 #74 - 1 msg Message-ID: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <[email protected]>; from [email protected] on Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 09:44:24AM -0000 Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> The problem that you can get people to do it once, but if you have more than one database they'll get annoyed and not put the same info in all. Any "importer" will probably require some in house scripting as there is unlikely to be a 1-1 mapping from the two metadata sets. If you control both archives there are some possibilities. What is the other archive, how is it accessed & updated? I'm adding a bulk-importer to eprints, but that's probably not what you want. I've mentioned it before but the biggest goad to getting people to enter their information in our departement DB was our "people info pages" eg. http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/info/people/wh A member of academic staff gets upset if the number of papers they're listed as having writen is lower than the truth. --if you don't care about the eprints.org software stop reading here-- I've added a feature to eprints-2 which creates files containing chunks of HTML (similar to the browse subjects in ep-1) but also creates chunks without the wrapping template, so these fragments can be exported and included in other pages in your site. The initial test run of this is being used by aktors.org (although they are exporting it by year rather than by person). See http://www.aktors.org/publications/Nindex.php3 this is just our first test. The page contains the php code line readline( "http://eprints.aktors.org/view/year/2001.include" ); The /view/ directory is where all views get generated, currently it also generates .html versions: http://eprints.aktors.org/view/year/2001.html but these could not usefully be imported into another page. You can even create each item as a table row, but that's more complex to customise. On Mon, Jan 21, 2002 at 09:44:24AM -0000, Chris Rusbridge wrote: > The other issue is the time spent depositing papers. We already have to put > references to all published papers into a central database, and there is > great difficulty persuading academics to find the time for this (especially > for their 'back set' of articles). We can't (yet) import that data into the > ePrints.org system we run, which means academics would have to do it twice. > This will limit early adoption to those who care greatly... > > -- > Chris Rusbridge > Director of Information Services, University of Glasgow > GLASGOW G12 8QQ > phone 0141 330 2516 fax 0141 330 5620 > email: [email protected] > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of H.M. > > Gladney > > Sent: 19 January 2002 17:22 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [OAI-general] RE: OAI-general digest, Vol 1 #74 - 1 msg > > > > > > There is a bothersome implicit assumption in these notes--that an > > e-print archive needs to manage (part of) its own servers. > > > > Another possibility is that an archive buy storage and Web > > services from > > one of giant server farm companies that many businesses find > > practical. > > Doing so is likely to have several large advantages over any kind of > > "roll your own" (aka RYO) solution: avoided administrative headaches, > > automatic capacity management (as alluded to in the attached > > note), very > > short delay between proposal and service delivery, and probably (TBD) > > lower cost than RYO. > > > > If someone can identify strong arguments against this proposition, I'd > > much enjoy hearing them and perhaps having a friendly debate. > > > > Regards, Henry > > > > Henry Gladney, Ph.D (408)867-5454 > > HMG Consulting > > 20044 Glen Brae Drive, Saratoga CA 95070 > > http://home.pacbell.net/hgladney/ > > > > ----Original Message----- > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: ePrints Support [mailto:[email protected]] > > > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 3:39 AM > > > To: Bob Kemp > > > Cc: EPrints Underground List; [email protected]; > > > [email protected]; > > > [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [OAI-general] Re: [EP-underground] Sustaining ePrints > > > > > > > > > One issue in the design of eprints-2 is that it is geared > > up to allow > > > many (smaller) archives to be run on one physical computer. > > > Which means > > > that a larger organisation could buy one "chunky" computer and then > > > provide eprints archives with seperate customisations, OAI > > > exports (and > > > colour schemes) for various departments which don't have the > > > resources and > > > expertise to do this themseleves. This should reduce the cost > > > in parts (and > > > system admin hours!) to get several archives going. > > > > In addition, should a particular archive become heavily used, > > moving it > > to a > > dedicated box is a snap. You really loose nothing with a multi-archive > > (versus monolith) design, and gain so much. Thanks to OAI protocols, > > developing an institute wide interface to all the small archives isn't > > much > > of a hassle -- in fact kinda unnecessary due to ARC > > (http://arc.cs.odu.edu/). If you can't tell, I'm a fan of this design. > > > > > This would probably work out more cost effective than buying > > > and installing > > > a machine and having learn the ins-and outs of the system > > for a single > > > archive. EPrints is free, so we don't have to grub for > > > licenses by requiring > > > one copy per archive :) > > > > Hurrah for free (GPL) software! > > > > > My own server, running eprints-alpha-2, is running > > > demoprints.eprints.org, > > > eprints.aktors.org + a couple of other test archives. Later, > > > it will be > > > running our department publications archive and an archive of > > > Ted Nelsons > > > material. > > > > > > The bottle neck is processor power, caused by larger datasets > > > but mostly > > > by "hits". So large, popular archives should probably run on > > > their own > > > machine. > > > > Some more metrics: on my un-optimized server, eprints/apache/mysql > > altogether require about 40MB of memory per archive. Most web hits are > > from > > robots and some from OAI harvesters (as it should be). We have 10 > > archives > > now, though some are just skeletons waiting for our authors > > to "see the > > light" so to speak. > > > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > Ed Sponsler - Sr. Applications Development > > Caltech Library System > > [email protected] > > http://library.caltech.edu/digital > > > > > > --__--__-- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > OAI-general mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://oaisrv.nsdl.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oai-general > > > > > > End of OAI-general Digest > > > > _______________________________________________ > > OAI-general mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://oaisrv.nsdl.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oai-general > > > _______________________________________________ > OAI-general mailing list > [email protected] > http://oaisrv.nsdl.cornell.edu/mailman/listinfo/oai-general -- Christopher Gutteridge [email protected] ePrints Technical Support +44 23 8059 4833 From [email protected] Mon Jan 28 17:29:58 2002 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA23287 for eprints-underground-outgoing; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:29:58 GMT Received: from magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.68.131]) by sage.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA23282 for <[email protected]>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:29:46 GMT Received: from maple.sucs.soton.ac.uk (maple.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.16]) by magpie.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA21482 for <[email protected]>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:29:03 GMT From: [email protected] Received: from poplar.sucs.soton.ac.uk (poplar.sucs.soton.ac.uk [152.78.128.30]) by maple.sucs.soton.ac.uk (8.10.0/8.10.0) with ESMTP id g0SHT1H10209 for <[email protected]>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:29:01 GMT Received: from HOST (hart-3015-1.sul.soton.ac.uk [152.78.208.42]) by poplar.sucs.soton.ac.uk (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id g0SHBH213213 for <[email protected]>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:11:17 GMT Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:11:17 GMT Message-Id: <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: [EP-underground] new photos from my party! Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------=_1012238828-16011-184" X-MailScanner: Found to be infected X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean Sender: [email protected] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: EPrints Underground List <[email protected]> Warning: This message has had one or more attachments removed. Warning: Please read the "SUCSWarning.txt" attachment(s) for more information. Hello! My party... It was absolutely amazing! I have attached my web page with new photos! If you can please make color prints of my photos. Thanks! -- THREADER-LINK: SUCSWarning.txt --