Re: MathML is dead, long live MathML

Hi Daniel,

Ok. Let's discuss!

Most interesting for me is Peters statements
> Content MathML is just not relevant.
Since I'm currently investigating how content MathML is used, and
whats needs to be done to get mathematical content from one system to
another.
Currently, I have the impression that the latter question is
completely solved in theory, but completely unsolved in practise.

Disclaimer: While I really appreciate drinking beer with Peter, we
have slightly different approaches for de facto standards to share
mathematics in information systems.

Best
Moritz


On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 1:24 PM, Daniel Kinzler <[email protected]> wrote=
:
> Peter Krautzberger, maintainer of MathJax, apparently thinks that MathML =
has
> failed as a web standard (even though it succeeded as an XML standard), a=
nd
> should be removed from HTML5. Here's the link:
>
> https://www.peterkrautzberger.org/0186/
>
> It's quite a rant. Here's a quick TL;DR:
>
>> It doesn=E2=80=99t matter whether or not MathML is a good XML language. =
Personally, I
>> think it=E2=80=99s quite alright. It=E2=80=99s also clearly a success in=
 the XML publishing
>> world, serving an important role in standards such as JATS and BITS.
>>
>> The problem is: MathML has failed on the web.
>
>> Not a single browser vendor has stated an intent to work on the code, no=
t a
>> single browser developer has been seen on the MathWG. After 18 years, no=
t a
>> single browser vendor is willing to dedicate even a small percentage of =
a
>> developer to MathML.
>
>> Math layout can and should be done in CSS and SVG. Let=E2=80=99s improve=
 them
>> incrementally to make it simpler.
>>
>> It=E2=80=99s possible to generate HTML+CSS or SVG that renders any MathM=
L content =E2=80=93
>> on the server, mind you, no client-side JS required (but of course possi=
ble).
>
>> Since layout is practically solved (or at least achievable), we really n=
eed
>> to solve the semantics. Presentation MathML is not sufficient, Content M=
athML
>> is just not relevant.
>>
>> We need to look where the web handles semantics today =E2=80=93 that=E2=
=80=99s ARIA and HTML
>> but also microdata, rdfa etc.
>
> I think both, the rendering as well as the semantics, are well worth thin=
king
> about. Perhaps Wikimedia should reach out to Peter Krautzberger, and disc=
uss
> some ideas of how math (and physics, and chemistry) content should be han=
dled by
> Wikipedia, Wikidata, and friends. This seems like a cross roads, and we s=
hould
> have a hand in where things are going from here.
>
> -- daniel (not a MathML expert all all)
>



--=20
Moritz Schubotz
TU Berlin, Fakult=C3=A4t IV
DIMA - Sekr. EN7
Raum EN742
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Germany

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