Re: New developers (Was: Nested db-objects)

Alan Langford wrote:
> 
> On 2008-05-26 07:13, Dave Hall wrote:
>> A release always bring in new developers, but few stick around.  Over
>> the years I have witnessed the people coming to the project, checking it
>> out, then realising the state of the code base and justifiably running a
>> mile.  We need to take the issue of code quality and standards seriously
>> if we are to build a sustainable project.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Dave
>>   
> As someone who has been lurking here for just over three years, I have 
> to say that this is the case for me. I first installed eGW. When I asked 
> about making a contribution, I discovered that most of the development I 
> was interested in was "sponsored" work being done on a different 
> repository, and that the work would be "donated" when it was completed.
> 
> A clash of attitudes ensued. Then I installed pGW and left their list...
> 
> I had hopes of using pGW for a small client as the base for a CRM 
> requirement they had. In the end the project didn't go ahead -- for 
> reasons unrelated to the code. Meanwhile I had installed it and still 
> use it for my very limited contact management needs. I was hoping to 
> have some spare time to make a contribution, but as Dave said, the state 
> of the code is of no help. Neither are the ongoing clashes between 
> members of the team.
> 
> phpGroupWare is still an interesting, even "cool" project, but over the 
> years I have completely lost interest in making a contribution to it. It 
> used to be that I was waiting for you guys to a new edition of the core 
> (I can't even remember the name... newapp or something?) up to the point 
> where I could learn about it and start making a contribution, but 
> progress was too slow because the project is below a critical mass of 
> contributors (I even wrote a blog post on the topic last year, in an 
> attempt to draw developers with available time to this project).
> 
> I have since become deeply involved in content management systems and 
> joined the "Joomla!" project. The kind of sniping that happens here 
> would not be tolerated in J!, but that's a direct result of having many 
> voices to keep things calm and to work out issues based on commonly 
> agreed upon design principles. Sadly, at this point if I needed 
> groupware functionality I would be far more inclined to implement it in 
> Joomla than to deal with pGW... the framework is defined, stable, well 
> coded, and increasingly tested and robust. Joomla needs some major 
> things before it could serve as a groupware platform, but they're coming 
> fast.
> 
> All I can suggest is that everyone take a step back and create a 
> vision/philosophy for the project that includes and agreed-upon set of 
> design principles that covers issues like separation of logic and 
> storage. Perhaps then these sorts of differences can be resolved by 
> referring to the project philosophy instead of by a running battle on 
> the list. These open conflicts do little more than discourage potential 
> contributors, which perpetuates the problem. There's a lot of good stuff 
> in pGW; it's very sad to see it become a candidate for life support.
> 

Well spoken.

My problem is that my code base is huge - and I can't keep up with rapid changes 
in what is considered proper coding at all time.

We have a project with defined features to develop - and for that we need a 
stable platform. I feel that we are walking sideways trying to keep up with 
changes and "should-have-requirements" rather than forward - and that is 
frustrating.

I would hate to abandon phpgw - but at this stage - in this situation - I think 
that it is best for everybody that we (the Resight project) take a step back and 
work with what we got - rather than trying to keep up.

This should also be fun - but right now flames are thrown all over the place.

So keep up the good work - and we will try to catch up later at some point.

Regards

Sigurd