Minutes, 4 January 2007 WS Description WG telcon
"Jonathan Marsh" <[email protected]>
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Enclosed. Jonathan Marsh - <http://www.wso2.com> http://www.wso2.com - <http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com> http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
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<h1>WS Description WG telcon</h1>
<h2>4 Jan 2007</h2>
<p>See also: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-irc">IRC log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>Charlton Baretto, Adobe Systems</dd>
<dd>Allen Brookes, Rogue Wave Software</dd>
<dd>Roberto Chinnici, Sun Microsystems</dd>
<dd>Paul Downey, British Telecommunications</dd>
<dd>Youenn Fablet, Canon</dd>
<dd>Tom Jordahl, Adobe Systems</dd>
<dd>Amelia Lewis, TIBCO</dd>
<dd>Philippe Le Hegaret, W3C</dd>
<dd>Jonathan Marsh, Co-chair/WSO2</dd>
<dd>Monica Martin, Sun Microsystems</dd>
<dd>Gilbert Pilz, BEA Systems</dd>
<dd>Tony Rogers, Co-chair/Computer Associates</dd>
<dd>Arthur Ryman, IBM</dd>
<dd>Asir Vedamuthu, Microsoft</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>Jonathan</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>Roberto</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">Approval of minutes</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">Action items</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">Administrivia</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">MTOM description</a></li>
<li><a href="#item05">CR117</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='phone'><a name="action01" id="action01"></a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jonathan</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Jonathan to make sure parameters are
added to the URI in the HTTP binding even when no
whttp:location appears. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/logging-messages/index.html">
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/logging-messages/index.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Arthur</cite>> <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/logging-messages/index.html">
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/logging-messages/index.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Nov/0045.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Nov/0045.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jonathan</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Dec/att-0059/20061214-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Dec/att-0059/20061214-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribe: Roberto</p>
<h3 id="item01">Approval of minutes</h3>
<p class='phone'>Minutes approved</p>
<h3 id="item02">Action items</h3>
<pre>[Interop]
? 2006-11-30: [interop] John Kaputin to create a test case
with "required=false".
? 2006-12-14: [interop] Jonathan to fix transferCodings -
add control group
[WG]
? 2006-09-21: Jonathan to check periodically that SPARQL has
added schemaLocation.
? 2006-12-14: plh to come up with a more detailed proposal for
CR112 if possible
DONE [.5] 2006-12-21: Jonathan to reference the Versioning document in
the WSDL Primer.
DONE [.3] 2006-12-21: Jonathan to respond to Ashok Malhotra/WS-Policy
on WSDL 1.1 component indicators.
DONE [.4] 2006-12-21: Jonathan to raise new issue adding 4 new assertions
as per Arthur's note.
Current Editorial Action Items
Note: Editorial AIs associated with LC issues recorded at [.2].
[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/actions_owner.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Dec/0086.html
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Dec/0085.html
[.5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Dec/0094.html</pre>
<h3 id="item03">Administrivia</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> WG extended six
months<br />
... from the implementor's call, there was no progress on the
logging issue<br />
... no visible progress on dashboard<br />
... it will take ~2 wks to fix the logging issues and get
testing done between WSO2 and Canon<br />
... 19 issues still open<br />
... at the pace we're at, it should take ~ 3wks to get the
issue count to zero</p>
<p class='phone'>for PR we also need to update the
documents</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> for PR we also need to
update the documents<br />
... still a few resolutions not incorporated<br />
... another area: validator progress<br />
... we got coverage of 50% of the assertions<br />
... it shouldn't block us from moving forward to PR<br />
... it could take a month to increase coverage</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> do we have dates for
these events?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> no, extrapolating from
current pace</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> would like to see a
schedule</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> would like to set up a
time to test each other's endpoints in the week of Jan
21st<br />
... looking for a 4-6 hour time window<br />
... if we can do that by the end of January, it's going to take
about 2 weeks to get to the Director's call<br />
... it would go to the AC in two weeks, then the AC gets 4
weeks<br />
... so ~10 weeks from the hand-off to REC<br />
... so we are looking for Recommendation at the end of
April<br />
... may need to add a few weeks to address any issues, rewrite
test cases, etc.<br />
... e.g. issues with gzip transfer coding<br />
... would like to send LC comments through the working
group<br />
... only substantial comment is (4) in <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0011.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0011.html</a><br />
... does anyone else plan on reading the document and send
comments? deadline is next Friday</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Paul:</cite> people can comment outside
of the WG too</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> my comments were not
WSDL specific, really<br />
... in WSDL we make special provisions for multiple inline
schemas<br />
... would like such a schema not to be flagged as violating any
patterns</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Paul to report back on which test
cases in the WSDL test suite fail the basic patterns, with
suggestions on how to address the issues [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> Policy last call
comments by Charlton</p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Dec/0055.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Dec/0055.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Charlton:</cite> main issues are policy
intersection and security considerations<br />
... also "policy expression (4)" is not editorial</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Asir:</cite> how many comments are
WSDL-related?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Charlton:</cite> 3<br />
... "XML Element Attachment" (a note), already filed issues for
two other ones</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> potential issue in the
item under "Policy Expression (4)"</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Charlton:</cite> theoretical interest in
defining an abstract policy for improved sharing<br />
... analogy with interface/class relationship</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Asir:</cite> policy doesn't deal with
assertions</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Charlton:</cite> placeholders for
assertions<br />
... offers to write up some examples</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Monica:</cite> idea from BPEL TC; it's a
template with placeholders</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> it looks like a general
policy issue, not a policy one<br />
... any other substantial issues we can look at today?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Charlton:</cite> no</p><a name=
"action03" id="action03"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Charlton to come up with a list of
editorial comments and WSDL substantive issues [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> it's still useful to
let them know that there is interest from the group in an
issue</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>monica</cite>> +1</p>
<h3 id="item04">MTOM description</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> any news?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>asir</cite>> Jonathan, I am signing
off</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> XMLP WG meets on
Wednesdays</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> postpone the issue till
next week</p>
<h3 id="item05">CR117</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Youenn:</cite> issue with special
characters in parameters<br />
... hard to parse the URI in that case<br />
... possible solution escape these characters or just urlencode
all parameter values</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> currently we don't do
any escaping<br />
... last time we discussed this, we decided not to do anything
about it</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> is it a duplicate
issue?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> duplicate of CR053</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Jul/att-0001/20060629-ws-desc-minutes.html#item06">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Jul/att-0001/20060629-ws-desc-minutes.html#item06</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> url escaping happens at
the transport layer</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> you can prevent "/"s by
defining your own type</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> or use NMToken</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> even if you encode a
slash, when the URL is decoded how do you reconstruct the
parameter values?<br />
... we'd have to define a particular escaping</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> unclear when to encode
things, except to prevent illegal characters</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> encoding won't by itself
fix the problem<br />
... are we going to have a primer example of constraining the
schema type?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> # could make the URL
invalid too<br />
... 2 #s seem to be invalid</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Tony:</cite> are there any security
issues?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Sep/0034">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2006Sep/0034</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> nothing beyond what the
URL spec already handles</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> "No percent-encoding
mechanism, as</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> defined in section 2.1
of RFC 3986, is performed on the replacement</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> value. "</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>pauld</cite>> notes this is a
common issue, Microsoft Outlook Webmail constructs URIs from
the subject line, which generates URIs you can't dereference
with mails sent with '+' and '&' in the title</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> restricting schema
types is a partial solution, won't work well for book titles
with whitespaces</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> whitespaces will get
encoded on the wire<br />
... but there can be information loss</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> don't want to force
users to encode data themselves<br />
... should we mandate or allow an escaping mechanism? what
about precluding slashes (which we won't be escaped in any
case)?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> no need to exclude
anything, it can be done via a schema type</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> "The%20Bible" in user
data would be bad</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> distinction between
what's legal in an URI and how URIs are transported</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> xs:anyURI allows more
characters than the URL spec does</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> even in ASCII, to parse a
URL you have to know about the special characters</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> are spaces even an
issue?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> some research needed</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> with slash, couldn't I
have a full URI in the data and the template contain just one
parameter?<br />
... http:location="{foo}"</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> [[ As a consequence,
if</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> this IRI is an absolute
IRI, the {address} property of the Endpoint</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> component is ignored.
]]</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> need to clarify if the
absolutization of the URI precedes or follows parameter
substitution<br />
... the results can be different in the two cases (e.g. with ..
in the parameter value)<br />
... multiple issues<br />
... if we allow slash characters, the resulting URLs may be
ambiguous<br />
... preference is not to outlaw this case</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> we could require the
serialization from XML to URI to be invertible</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> don't want to mandate
that<br />
... e.g. the case of existing services which I'd like to
describe<br />
... it's the use cases of WSDL as a general HTTP description
language</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> we could define a more
constrained URI style<br />
... leave the URI style as-is and define a new style which
guarantees invertibility</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> it seems hard to define
such a style in general terms</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> we can do it in a fairly
direct (but constraining) way</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Youenn:</cite> it may be too
complex</p><a name="action04" id="action04"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Jonathan to analyze CR117 further
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Charlton to come
up with a list of editorial comments and WSDL substantive issues
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Jonathan to
analyze CR117 further [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Jonathan to make
sure parameters are added to the URI in the HTTP binding even
when no w<a href="http:location">http:location</a> appears.
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Paul to report
back on which test cases in the WSDL test suite fail the basic
patterns, with suggestions on how to address the issues [recorded
in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/04-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<br />
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