Minutes, 11 Jan 2007 WS Description WG telcon
"Jonathan Marsh" <[email protected]>
| Newsgroups | gmane.comp.web.services.description |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <001a01c735c9$100d1560$3501a8c0@DELLICIOUS> |
Enclosed. Jonathan Marsh - <http://www.wso2.com> http://www.wso2.com - <http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com> http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
20070111-ws-desc-minutes.html
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<h1>Web Services Description Meeting</h1>
<h2>11 Jan 2007</h2>
<p>See also: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-irc">IRC log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>Charlton Baretto, Adobe Systems</dd>
<dd>Allen Brookes, Rogue Wave Software</dd>
<dd>Roberto Chinnici, Sun Microsystems</dd>
<dd>Jacek Kopecky, DERI Innsbruck at the Leopold-Franzens-Universität Innsbruck, Austria</dd>
<dd>Philippe Le Hegaret, W3C</dd>
<dd>Jonathan Marsh, Co-chair/WSO2</dd>
<dd>Monica Martin, Sun Microsystems</dd>
<dd>Jean-Jacques Moreau, Canon</dd>
<dd>Gilbert Pilz, BEA Systems</dd>
<dd>Tony Rogers, Co-chair/Computer Associates</dd>
<dd>Asir Vedamuthu, Microsoft</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dd>Youenn Fablet, Canon</dd>
<dd>Tom Jordahl, Adobe Systems</dd>
<dd>Amelia Lewis, TIBCO</dd>
<dd>Arthur Ryman, IBM</dd>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>Jonathan</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>plh</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">minutes from last week</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">Action items</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">Draft comments for WS-Policy</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">Interchange format draft
note</a></li>
<li><a href="#item05">MTOM Description</a></li>
<li><a href="#item06">CR122</a></li>
<li><a href="#item07">CR130</a></li>
<li><a href="#item08">CR131</a></li>
<li><a href="#item09">CR 133</a></li>
<li><a href="#item10">CR 140</a></li>
<li><a href="#item11">CR 141</a></li>
<li><a href="#item12">CR119</a></li>
<li><a href="#item13">CR 120</a></li>
<li><a href="#item14">CR 121</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/Dashboard.html">
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/Dashboard.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/results-messages/MessageTest-4G/log-MessageTest4G-canon-canon-results.html#message1">
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/results-messages/MessageTest-4G/log-MessageTest4G-canon-canon-results.html#message1</a></p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl20/wsdl20-adjuncts.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#_http_operation_multipart_encoding">
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl20/wsdl20-adjuncts.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#_http_operation_multipart_encoding</a></p>
<p class='phone'>"This format serializes the instance data in
the HTTP message body, making it only suitable for HTTP
requests using methods allowing message bodies."</p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl20/wsdl20-adjuncts.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#_http_operation_multipart_encoding">
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/wsdl20/wsdl20-adjuncts.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#_http_operation_multipart_encoding</a></p>
<p class='phone'>"This format serializes the instance data in
the HTTP message body, making it only suitable for HTTP
requests using methods allowing message bodies."</p>
<p class='phone'>"In this serialization, for HTTP requests, the
rules for constructing the HTTP request IRI defined in 6.7.1
Serialization of the instance data in parts of the HTTP request
IRI apply if the {style} property of the Interface Operation
bound has a value of "<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/@@@@/@@/wsdl/style/iri">http://www.w3.org/@@@@/@@/wsdl/style/iri</a>"
as defined in 4.2 IRI Style."</p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/results-messages/MessageTest-2G/log-MessageTest2G-canon-canon-results.html#message17">
http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/ws/desc/test-suite/results-messages/MessageTest-2G/log-MessageTest2G-canon-canon-results.html#message17</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jonathan</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0058.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0058.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>monica</cite>> will only be able to
join today via irc - conflicts</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribe: plh</p>
<h3 id="item01">minutes from last week</h3>
<p class='phone'>Minutes approved</p>
<h3 id="item02">Action items</h3>
<pre>Review of Action items [.1].
[Interop]
? 2006-11-30: [interop] John Kaputin to create a test case
with "required=false".
? 2006-12-14: [interop] Jonathan to fix transferCodings -
add control group
[WG]
? 2006-09-21: Jonathan to check periodically that SPARQL has
added schemaLocation.
? 2006-12-14: plh to come up with a more detailed proposal for
CR112 if possible
? 2007-01-04: Jonathan to make sure parameters are added to the
URI in the HTTP binding even when no whttp:location
appears.
? 2007-01-04: Paul to report back on which test cases in the
WSDL test suite fail the basic patterns, with
suggestions on how to address the issues.
DONE [.3] 2007-01-04: Charlton to come up with a list of editorial
comments and WSDL substantive issues.
? 2007-01-04: Jonathan to analyze CR117 further.
Current Editorial Action Items
Note: Editorial AIs associated with LC issues recorded at [.2].
[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/actions_owner.html</pre>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>[DONE]</strong> 2007-01-04: Charlton to come up with a
list of editorial comments and WSDL substantive issues.</p>
<h3 id="item03">Draft comments for WS-Policy</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jonathan</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0071.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0071.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> let's skip the
editorial issues<br />
... let's look at number 11, policy intersection</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Charlton:</cite> this is relevant to the
client, not strictly relevant to WSDL. Don't see anything to
select the intersection mode selection.<br />
... if one entity understands one mode and an other is being
required by the other entity, the intersection won't occur.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> so, if I would attach a
policy to WSDL, should we have a mode as well?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Charlton:</cite> if you want someone to
always apply lax, there is no mechanism for that for the
moment.<br />
... there should be a mechanism for expressing this.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> this is up to the
client to use one or the other intersection mode</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Asir:</cite> it's at the discretion of
the requester. I don't see this as a WSDL issue</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Charlton:</cite> not trying to express
that anyone other than the client can pick the mode, but the
service might want to indicate which one to pick.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> be isn't ignorable the
mode?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> if you don't want the
client to ignore your assertions, then don't use ignorable.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> we would need a more
developed use case to see the interop problem, but this seems a
policy issue</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Monica:</cite> some parts of the
discussion will be handled in other documents in WS-Policy.
Maybe that will help Charlton on this issue.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Charlton:</cite> I'm happy not including
this in the WSDL comments.<br />
... Number 12 is already filed as an issue in WS-Policy but
we're expressing interest in it.<br />
... the issue is about how to map parameters in policy
attachments to WSDL 2.0.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Asir:</cite> is this a Last Call issue
or an issue about the WSDL 1.1 Element identifiers?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Charlton:</cite> this is a last call
issue?</p>
<p class='phone'>s/\?//</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> it's a fragid issue.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> I suggest we include it
in the mail, as a side remark.<br />
... I'll file the issues on behalf of the WSDL WG.<br />
... all editorials. not 11.<br />
... I'll leave the observations in this WG.</p><a name=
"action01" id="action01"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Jonathan to send WS-Policy comments to
the WS-Policy WG [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<h3 id="item04">Interchange format draft note</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Postponed</p>
<h3 id="item05">MTOM Description</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jonathan</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/Submission/2006/SUBM-WS-MTOMPolicy-20061101/">
http://www.w3.org/Submission/2006/SUBM-WS-MTOMPolicy-20061101/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> W3C ack'd a submission
on the MTOM policy assertion</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> will be sent to XMLP. I
*think* they want to work on this on the REC track.<br />
... the XMLP WG will need a new charter if they do so.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> following-up on this, I
thought Canon was going to investigate the use of the MTOM
policy assertion. Any news?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jean-Jacques:</cite> no news yet.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> the interesting point
is if it is difficult to implement a WS-Policy that can only
support one policy assertion.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jean-Jacques:</cite> if we parse it, and
check if the infoset only contains a subset, would that
work?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> you also want to
support the PolicyReference element, which is the
practice<br />
... you also want to reject policy you don't understand.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jean-Jacques:</cite> a bit more complex
than XPath...</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> I also don't understand
the resources constraint you're facing<br />
... could one use XSLT to transform the policy into a direct
WSDL extension?<br />
... if that's true, the information content is equivalent<br />
... Paul's proposal was to annotate the policies. Asir's
proposal was that we don't need to annotate them at
all.</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Jean-Jacques to provide more analysis
on how difficult it would be deal with a Policy that only
contains an MTOM policy assertion [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<h3 id="item06">CR122</h3>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR122">http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR122</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>John:</cite> 6.7.2.2.2 talks about
ignoreUncited. If the HTTP PUT or POST then the remainder gets
serialized in the message body anyway, not repeated in the URI.
So the use of the property isn't relevant here.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> should we clarify that
data could be thrown away?<br />
... you're not only preventing the data from appearing in the
URI, but you can also prevent it from appearing in the HTTP
Body<br />
... Youenn got the correct behavior<br />
... I do believe it would be possible to write some WSDL that
wouldn't interop because of implementation limitations.<br />
... yes, it is the expected behavior. The user might trip on
this. Closed with no action.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Resolution:</cite> close with no
action</p>
<h3 id="item07">CR130</h3>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR130">http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR130</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>monica</cite>> nick /monica</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>John:</cite> I had to make some decision
on how to associate the tokens I find with the string<br />
... should the spec be more specific?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jkaputin</cite>>
whttp:location="{{{town}}}"</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jkaputin</cite>> {{,{town},}}</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jkaputin</cite>> {{,{,town,}},}</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>John:</cite> two ways to interpret the
example.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Roberto</cite>> I'd say it's '{' +
value of town + '}'</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>John:</cite> with a strategy that looks
for matching par curly braces first, the example will be
ok.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> the proposal is to
match the pair of curly braces first.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Tony:</cite> I can't see a grammar where
the second result would be correct</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> is there a common
algorithm we can point to?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>John:</cite> don't know any</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> don't try using regular
expression to handle http:location, you need a parser and a
state table</p>
<p class='phone'>{{town}}</p><a name="action03" id=
"action03"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Philippe to propose a grammar for
http:location [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
<h3 id="item08">CR131</h3>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR131">http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR131</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>John:</cite> should we deal with infault
elements as well?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> the binding only works
for the 3 MEPs<br />
... you can say that it applies to the infault in your
extension as well.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Resolution:</cite> the HTTP 1.1 Binding
aplies only to the 3 MEPs we have in the spec. Closed with no
action</p>
<h3 id="item09">CR 133</h3>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR133">http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR133</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> For the SOAP response
MEP the immediate destination is "the value of the WSDL
{address} property, modified by the {http location} property
following the rules described in section 6.7.2 Serialization as
application/x-www-form-urlencoded."<br />
... is it intentional that we are ignoring http:location?</p>
<p class='phone'>"the SOAP request-response MEP the immediate
destination is "the value of the WSDL {address} property of the
Endpoint component."" . is it intentional that we are ignoring
http:location?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>John:</cite> so instance data would be
serialized in the IRI</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> yes, but the full XML
would still be part of the SOAP Body</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>John:</cite> might be useful in
gateway/middleware scenarios<br />
... so you don't have to parse the message body but still want
to do dispatch</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> didn't see any reason
to have it the way it is.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Proposal:</cite> the SOAP
request-response MEP immediate destination is the value of
the</p>
<p class='phone'>WSDL {address} property, modified by the {http
location} property following the</p>
<p class='phone'>rules described in section 6.7.2 Serialization
as application/x-www-form-urlencoded. The entire instance data
is serialized in the SOAP Body.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Resolution:</cite> proposal adopted.</p>
<h3 id="item10">CR 140</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>John:</cite> What happens if the MEP
allows multiple input messages or infaults as well as input
messages?<br />
... there is an issue on how to associate the element name with
the input data.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> we only define the
property for the 3 MEPs.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Resolution:</cite> closed.</p>
<h3 id="item11">CR 141</h3>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR141">http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/#CR141</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> this is a duplicate of
130 since Philippe will come up with a grammar.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Resolution:</cite> will be resolved with
the resolution of 130. Closed (duplicate).</p>
<h3 id="item12">CR119</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>wsdl:</cite>
binding/wsdl:operation/@whttp:queryParameterSeparator is
missing in</p>
<p class='phone'>the HTTP binding syntax summary while present
in section 6.4.4.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Resolution:</cite> agreed. needs to be
fixed.</p>
<h3 id="item13">CR 120</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> It does make sense to
add #none<br />
... the SOAP Response MEP can only be used with the IRI style
or with an input message of #none.<br />
... sounds reasonable.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Resolution:</cite> agreed. Needs to be
fixed.</p>
<h3 id="item14">CR 121</h3>
<p class='phone'>Support for deprecation.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Resolution:</cite> could be done through
extensibility or in V.Next. Closed.</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Jean-Jacques to
provide more analysis on how difficult it would be deal with a
Policy that only contains an MTOM policy assertion [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Jonathan to send
WS-Policy comments to the WS-Policy WG [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Philippe to
propose a grammar for <a href="http:location">http:location</a>
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2007/01/11-ws-desc-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
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$Date: 2007/01/11 17:40:29 $
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