Minutes, 1 February 2007 WS Description WG telcon
"Jonathan Marsh" <[email protected]>
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Enclosed. Jonathan Marsh - <http://www.wso2.com> http://www.wso2.com - <http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com> http://auburnmarshes.spaces.live.com
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<h1>WS Description WG telcon</h1>
<h2>1 Feb 2007</h2>
<p>See also: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-irc">IRC log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>Charlton Baretto, Adobe Systems</dd>
<dd>Allen Brookes, Rogue Wave Software</dd>
<dd>Roberto Chinnici, Sun Microsystems</dd>
<dd>Jacek Kopecky, DERI Innsbruck at the Leopold-Franzens-Universität Innsbruck, Austria</dd>
<dd>Philippe Le Hegaret, W3C</dd>
<dd>Jonathan Marsh, Co-chair/WSO2</dd>
<dd>Monica Martin, Sun Microsystems</dd>
<dd>Jean-Jacques Moreau, Canon</dd>
<dd>Gilbert Pilz, BEA Systems</dd>
<dd>Arthur Ryman, IBM</dd>
<dd>Asir Vedamuthu, Microsoft</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dd>Youenn Fablet, Canon</dd>
<dd>Tony Rogers, Co-chair/Computer Associates</dd>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>Jonathan</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>scribe-jjm</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">Minutes/Actions</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">One-Way SOAP</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">WSDL 1.1 identifiers</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">Issue 145 (cont'd)</a></li>
<li><a href="#item05">Issue 117</a></li>
<li><a href="#item06">Issue 143</a></li>
<li><a href="#item07">Issue 135</a></li>
<li><a href="#item08">Issue 144</a></li>
<li><a href="#item09">Issue 146</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> Namespace qualified
elements tend to produce messages whose interpretation is less
ambiguous than those with unqualified elements. The use of
unqualified elements is therefore discouraged.</p>
<h3 id="item01">Minutes/Actions</h3>
<p class='phone'>Minutes approved</p>
<pre>Review of Action items [.1].
[Interop]
? 2006-11-30: [interop] John Kaputin to create a test case
with "required=false".
? 2006-12-14: [interop] Jonathan to fix transferCodings -
add control group
[WG]
? 2006-09-21: Jonathan to check periodically that SPARQL has
added schemaLocation.
? 2006-12-14: plh to come up with a more detailed proposal for
CR112 if possible
? 2007-01-04: Paul to report back on which test cases in the
WSDL test suite fail the basic patterns, with
suggestions on how to address the issues.
? 2007-01-11: Jean-Jacques to provide more analysis on how
difficult it would be deal with a Policy that
only contains an MTOM policy assertion
DONE [.3] 2007-01-25: Jonathan to forward comments to the author of
the MTOM charter.
DONE [.4] 2007-01-25: Jean-Jacques to develop more concrete suggestions
for expansion of the charter for the XML-P group.
DONE [.5] 2007-01-25: Roberto to suggest more concrete wording for the
spec for CR145.
Current Editorial Action Items
Note: Editorial AIs associated with LC issues recorded at [.2].
[.1] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/#actions
[.2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/desc/5/cr-issues/actions_owner.html
[.3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-cg/2007Jan/0015.html
[.4] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-ws-desc/2007Jan/0015.html
[.5] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0201.html</pre>
<h3 id="item02">One-Way SOAP</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan</cite>: JJ, do you
prefer to send your comments yourself or through the WG?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>JJ</cite>: the latter sounds
good to me.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan</cite>: ok, sent.</p>
<h3 id="item03">WSDL 1.1 identifiers</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan</cite>: any
comments?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur</cite>: I reviewed an
earlier draft?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan</cite>: do you want
to see if any was broken since you last looked?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>charlton</cite>> WSDL 1.1 element
identifiers document published by WS-Policy WG:<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl11elementidentifiers/">http://www.w3.org/TR/wsdl11elementidentifiers/</a></p><a name="action01"
id="action01"></a>
<p class='phone'><strong>ACTION:</strong> Arthur to review the WSDL 1.1
identifier spec [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<h3 id="item04">Issue 145 (cont'd)</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> we were about to limit
the scope last week but wanted Arthur's position<br />
... also, I've proposed an amendment</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Roberto:</cite> I like it<br />
... would prefer that the namespace be explicitely
mentionned</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> is it clear enough for
you to implement?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> can you not confirm
that yourself?<br />
... my stylesheet implement has limits as to its exploring
depth</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> in the type section, if
see a schema or xs:import, those components get included</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Roberto:</cite> true for WSDL
include</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> not WSDL import
(namespace issue)?<br />
... the only things we exclude are xs:import in an included
schema<br />
... edge case: we allowed top level xs schema with no top level
namespace (issue 45)<br />
... so, we would include those components<br />
... they would all endup in the global no-namespace
schema<br />
... so non ambiguous</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Roberto:</cite> I agree</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>PROPOSAL:</cite> Roberto's proposal
amended by Jonathan email from 31/1/7, plus some editorial
license</p>
<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION:
Roberto's proposal amended by Jonathan email from 31/1/7, plus
some editorial license</strong></p>
<h3 id="item05">Issue 117</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> a bit controversial
last week</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jacek:</cite> even if we use the flag,
it would not go to LC</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> I would be prepared to
argue that; don't want to go back to LC</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> it is a change, no
doubt, by the letter would have to go to LC, but negative
reactions are likely to be low, so would support this option in
front of the director</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>JJ:</cite> would prefer to hold
resolution until Youenn is back next week</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> ok, but would like to
continue discussion a little bit so we weed out the
options<br />
... don't like options which don't allow people to %-escape
things if they wish<br />
... what are people's preferences?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jacek:</cite> 3 options: 1. no encoding;
2. full encoding; 3. partial encoding<br />
... 1. no option for Jonathan<br />
... 2. not an option for some<br />
... so 3. looks like the easy option</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> citing a parameter
allows it's name to be changed; this is orthogonal to
escaping<br />
... often I would like to be able to encode<br />
... option 1 (as per the agenda, not Jacek's above) sounds
better to me</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Roberto</cite>> +1 for option 1 in
the agenda</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>STRAWMAN:</cite> option 1 (from the
agenda)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> I suggested a syntax;
but the default should be encoded; so # before a token to
indicate raw instead<br />
... amenable to using a bracket instead<br />
... which character should be encoded? In my proposal for
option 3, very restricted. Maybe I should...</p><a name=
"action02" id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Jonathan to provide an enhanced option
1 for issue 117 by next week, using bits from the other
proposals as indicated above [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<h3 id="item06">Issue 143</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> should use
Transfer-encoding instead of Content-encoding</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> wonder if Dave Orchard
thought about other uses than zip</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> Transfer-encoding is a
section in the HTTP spec, so covers both</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> should go to
Transfer-coding header<br />
... close today by moving to Content-encoding; or leave it open
whilst getting feedback<br />
... would rather close this sooner since reason for many reds
in tests<br />
... but a week is reasonnable</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philippe:</cite> we could use identity
instead</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> JJ, you don't support
gzip as I recall?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>JJ:</cite> correct</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jacek:</cite> does the header have to be
present, though? I suspect not</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> [[ If the
content-coding of an entity is not "identity", then the</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> response MUST include a
Content-Encoding entity-header</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>plh</cite>> (Section 14.11) that
lists the non-identity content-coding(s) used. ]]</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> have to stick with gzip
and accept some of our tests fail</p>
<h3 id="item07">Issue 135</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> proposal for a new
feature, has to do with operation dispatch, related to a former
issue using http-location to dispatch<br />
... so, generic binding and HTTP bindings don't work well
together<br />
... hence propose location-default property</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>PROPOSAL:</cite> close with no
action</p>
<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: as just
proposed</strong></p>
<h3 id="item08">Issue 144</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> add {http location
ignore uncited} parameter</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arhtur:</cite> how many will we need to
add?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> this one for now;
there's a concrete proposal</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> ok</p>
<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: adopt
the proposal in the my email</strong></p>
<h3 id="item09">Issue 146</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> {http location ignore
uncited} and required schema data<br />
... required information may be dropped<br />
... proposal is that if uncited, should be nillable</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> don't quite like
nillable</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> would prefer optional;
but if nillable can still operate</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jonathan</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0208.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws-desc/2007Jan/0208.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> would be ok if using
min/maxoccurs</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> this is my amendment
from this week</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Asir:</cite> nillable is for the
content</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> here, if not being sent,
but declared in schema as nillable, proposal is to reinsert the
element and get a value nil=true<br />
... is that equivalent to missing value for optional
element?<br />
... let's say instead element required, but is not present and
has a default value</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Asir:</cite> the infoset gets augmented
with the default value<br />
... it gets added when the element is present and doesn't have
content</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Robertor:</cite> value can only be
characters</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> so add or has to have a
default<br />
... property must be defined as nillable, or has a default
value, or has minoccurs=1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> we should check default
further in the schema spec<br />
... if element missing and has minoccurs=0, don't
reconstitute<br />
... if minoccurs=1 and default value, reconstruct<br />
... would like a deterministic rule, needed for interop<br />
... should say what we get after reconstruction</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jonathan:</cite> constraint: can mark
both as nillable and have a default value</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Arthur:</cite> maybe in schema spec
already ;-)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Asir:</cite> from spec, if nillable, no
other constraint</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jacek:</cite> from different section: if
nillable, and not here, it's nil. If not nillable, and not
there, default.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Roberto</cite>> karnaugh map</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Roberto:</cite> let's take this to the
list</p>
<p class='phone'>ADJOURN</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Arthur to review
the WSDL 1.1 identifier spec [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Jonathan to
provide an enhanced option 1 for issue 117 by next week, using
bits from the other proposals as indicated above [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2007/02/01-ws-desc-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
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