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From home automation point of view, I can only think of one use case where
"toggle" actually has any validity, and that would be in the "3 way switch"
scenario.
A 3 way switch is exemplified by walking up to a dark hallway, turning the
light on with a nearby swtich, walking to the end, and then turning the
light off with a switch at the other end.
This use case is a true "toggle", since the "state" is the actual light (on
or off), and the switch itself does not represent that state (unlike a
normal, single switch). The switches can be "up" or "down" unrelated to the
light being "on" or "off".
Given that, again from a home automation point of view, I can't really ever
see "toggle" as a viable action. Maybe it's a primitive. But, in the end,
when you walk in to that dark hallway, what you want is the light to go on,
the mechanics of the switches are secondary.
I just mention this because at a high level, "toggle" doesn't make much
sense to me. The automation folks may well need it as a primitive to
control a switch. But at the "application" level, it doesn't make much
sense. At an application level, you either want the "Light" ON or OFF.
So, with that consideration, a simple POST will do the trick.
I don't think there's any "race condition", because "toggle" is not a
state, it's an action. If you care about the state, then set the state you
want. You should hide the "toggle", and enforce the state behind the scenes
(where you can manage race conditions on the server). Let the server decide
that when you change the state to ON, it can determine, internally, if the
device is OFF and then send a TOGGLE command to make it ON. If it's already
ON, then nothing happens.
But a "toggle" POST is just that, a simple command.
Regards,
Will Hartung
([email protected])
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 9:36 AM, Erik Wilde [email protected] [rest-discuss]
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> hello robby.
>
> On 2014-07-09, 17:47 , 'Simpson, Robby (GE Energy Management)'
> [email protected] [rest-discuss] wrote:
> >> it sounds like the scenario we were talking about, that all you want i=
s
> >> to tell the resource to "reverse its state". in this case, i'd POST a
> >> body that represents this request, in whatever serialization you happe=
n
> >> to prefer. the resource toggles. everybody's happy.
> > OK. Still seems like a bit of a departure from typical RESTful interfac=
es
> > I've seen and has the potential to be a catch-all tunnel for RPC-style
> > requests.
> > E.g.:
> > /command, where one could POST all sorts of commands like "toggle."
>
> the problem is not that POST can mean anything (it can), but people
> POSTing things to a "do stuff" resource, which then isn't
> resource-oriented anymore. your RPC sensor shouldn't go off because of
> people POSTing things to resources (that's fine), but because of people
> POSTing things to something other than resources (the "API end point",
> for example).
>
>
> >> but i am confused because you wrote earlier that you were concerned
> >> about race conditions. which seems to imply that instead of just
> >> toggling, you're also assuming that you're "toggling *from* some state=
".
> >> but that wouldn't be the "blind toggle" we discussed. could you clarif=
y
> >> a bit how exactly the operation that you're trying to design is define=
d?
> > Apologies, a blind toggle is what is desired. As it currently works, in
> > the current binary protocol, a button press on a toggle switch simply
> > sends a "toggle" command.
>
> then how would a race condition enter the picture? just because of the
> timestamp when you last observed the resource's state? or something
> else? to me, toggling always is kind of a game: if somebody toggled
> ahead of you, you'll do something other than you wanted to, but that's
> how it is and you'll have to deal with it after toggling and finding out
> that you switched the damn thing back on again...
>
>
> cheers,
>
> dret.
>
> --
> erik wilde | mailto:[email protected] - tel:+1-510-2061079 |
> | UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) |
> | http://dret.net/netdret http://twitter.com/dret |
>
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<p><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>From home auto=
mation point of view, I can only think of one use case where "toggle&q=
uot; actually has any validity, and that would be in the "3 way switch=
" scenario.<br>
<br></div>
A 3 way switch is exemplified by walking up to a dark hallway, turning the =
light on with a nearby swtich, walking to the end, and then turning the lig=
ht off with a switch at the other end.<br><br></div>This use case is a true=
"toggle", since the "state" is the actual light (on or=
off), and the switch itself does not represent that state (unlike a normal=
, single switch). The switches can be "up" or "down" un=
related to the light being "on" or "off".<br>
<br></div>Given that, again from a home automation point of view, I can'=
;t really ever see "toggle" as a viable action. Maybe it's a =
primitive. But, in the end, when you walk in to that dark hallway, what you=
want is the light to go on, the mechanics of the switches are secondary.<b=
r>
<br></div>I just mention this because at a high level, "toggle" d=
oesn't make much sense to me. The automation folks may well need it as =
a primitive to control a switch. But at the "application" level, =
it doesn't make much sense. At an application level, you either want th=
e "Light" ON or OFF.<br>
<br></div>So, with that consideration, a simple POST will do the trick.<br>=
<br></div>I don't think there's any "race condition", bec=
ause "toggle" is not a state, it's an action. If you care abo=
ut the state, then set the state you want. You should hide the "toggle=
", and enforce the state behind the scenes (where you can manage race =
conditions on the server). Let the server decide that when you change the s=
tate to ON, it can determine, internally, if the device is OFF and then sen=
d a TOGGLE command to make it ON. If it's already ON, then nothing happ=
ens.<br>
<br></div>But a "toggle" POST is just that, a simple command.<br>=
<br><div><div><div><div><div><div>Regards,<br><br>Will Hartung<br>(<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>)<br></div><div><br>
<div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmai=
l_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 9:36 AM,=
Erik Wilde <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> [res=
t-discuss] <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:rest-discuss-noreply@yah=
oogroups.com" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>>=
;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left:1px #ccc solid;">
<u></u>
=20
<div style=3D"background-color:#fff;">
<span>=C2=A0</span>
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<p>hello robby.<br>
<br>
On 2014-07-09, 17:47 , 'Simpson, Robby (GE Energy Management)' <br>=
</p><div class>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">robby.simpson@ge.=
com</a> [rest-discuss] wrote:<br>
>> it sounds like the scenario we were talking about, that all you wa=
nt is<br>
>> to tell the resource to "reverse its state". in this cas=
e, i'd POST a<br>
>> body that represents this request, in whatever serialization you h=
appen<br>
>> to prefer. the resource toggles. everybody's happy.<br>
> OK. Still seems like a bit of a departure from typical RESTful interf=
aces<br>
> I've seen and has the potential to be a catch-all tunnel for RPC-s=
tyle<br>
> requests.<br>
> E.g.:<br>
> /command, where one could POST all sorts of commands like "toggle=
."<br>
<br></div>
the problem is not that POST can mean anything (it can), but people <br>
POSTing things to a "do stuff" resource, which then isn't <br=
>
resource-oriented anymore. your RPC sensor shouldn't go off because of =
<br>
people POSTing things to resources (that's fine), but because of people=
<br>
POSTing things to something other than resources (the "API end point&q=
uot;, <br>
for example).<div class><br>
<br>
>> but i am confused because you wrote earlier that you were concerne=
d<br>
>> about race conditions. which seems to imply that instead of just<b=
r>
>> toggling, you're also assuming that you're "toggling =
*from* some state".<br>
>> but that wouldn't be the "blind toggle" we discussed=
. could you clarify<br>
>> a bit how exactly the operation that you're trying to design i=
s defined?<br>
> Apologies, a blind toggle is what is desired. As it currently works, =
in<br>
> the current binary protocol, a button press on a toggle switch simply<=
br>
> sends a "toggle" command.<br>
<br></div>
then how would a race condition enter the picture? just because of the <br>
timestamp when you last observed the resource's state? or something <br=
>
else? to me, toggling always is kind of a game: if somebody toggled <br>
ahead of you, you'll do something other than you wanted to, but that=
9;s <br>
how it is and you'll have to deal with it after toggling and finding ou=
t <br>
that you switched the damn thing back on again...<div class><br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
<br>
dret.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
erik wilde | mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">=
[email protected]</a> - tel:<a href=3D"tel:%2B1-510-2061079" value=3D"+15=
102061079" target=3D"_blank">+1-510-2061079</a> |<br>
| UC Berkeley - School of Information (ISchool) |<br>
| <a href=3D"http://dret.net/netdret" target=3D"_blank">http://=
dret.net/netdret</a> <a href=3D"http://twitter.com/dret" target=3D"_blank">=
http://twitter.com/dret</a> |<br>
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#ygrp-mlmsg #logo {
padding-bottom: 10px;
}
#ygrp-msg p a {
font-family: Verdana;
}
#ygrp-msg p#attach-count span {
color: #1E66AE;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco #reco-head {
color: #ff7900;
font-weight: 700;
}
#ygrp-reco {
margin-bottom: 20px;
padding: 0px;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a {
font-size: 130%;
text-decoration: none;
}
#ygrp-sponsor #ov li {
font-size: 77%;
list-style-type: square;
padding: 6px 0;
}=20
#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul {
margin: 0;
padding: 0 0 0 8px;
}
#ygrp-text {
font-family: Georgia;
}
#ygrp-text p {
margin: 0 0 1em 0;
}
#ygrp-text tt {
font-size: 120%;
}
#ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {
border-right: none !important;=20
}=20
-->
</style>
</head>
<!--~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~-->
</html>
<!-- end group email -->
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