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Mark Jones
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From [email protected] Tue Oct 1 12:46 EDT 2002
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From: "Christopher B Ferris" <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:45:51 -0400
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Subject: Re: Words for the Triangles
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David,
While I appreciate the sentiment of your comments, I feel compelled to
disagree that we can just label the top role "The Web" and be done with
it.
To put a cosmology spin on the issue, there's an awful lot of "dark
matter"
that comprises the Web that is effectively "invisible". By this I refer to
the beellions (well, maybe not, but Carl Sagan would be proud:-) of orphan
Web resources that are not linked from any other resource
and which are not the default Web page for a given origin server
such that they might be discovered by a Web 'bot on a 5 year mission to
seek out
new Web resources; to boldly go where no 'bot has gone before. Even
Google does not know of their identity, yet they exist none the less and
may
be quite unaware that they are the equivalent of cosmological "dark
matter".
There is more to making a Web resource discoverable via the Web than
simply making the resource available via the Web. Whether the
"registry" is merely a site map, the default Web page for an
origin server containing links to other resources which contain
links..., or a UDDI or ebXML registry, there needs to be some
action taken that makes a given resource discoverable via the Web.
The action can be implicit or explicit, but it MUST be recognized in the
architecture. I believe this action to be the act of registering with, or
publishing to ,
a "registry", even if that "registry" is merely a collection of links off
the
default page of an origin server.
Further more, a Web service may have good reason to engage with a
particular class or instance of a discovery agency:
- make my presence known only within my enterprise
- make my presence known external to my enterprise
- limit awareness of my presence to the secret society of foobar
I am also happy with "discovery agencies" if "registry" is too overloaded
a term.
Cheers,
Christopher Ferris
Architect, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
email: [email protected]
phone: +1 508 234 3624
David Booth wrote on 09/30/2002 07:26:44 PM:
>
>
> Heather Kreger <[email protected]> on Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:54:16 -0400
writes:
> >No, you do not discover from the web. Google discovers from the Web.
Then
> >he records it in his registry. THEN you discover from Google, which is
> >searching his - gasp - registry. So, you are discovering from a
registry.
> >. . .
>
> Well, yes, that is a legitimate one way to look at it, but I certainly
do
> not think of it that way.
>
> To me, Google and other tools are simply my MEANS of discovery -- not
the
> desired end point of my discovery. Google, Yahoo, email, and postcards
and
> billboards with URIs on them are all means that I use to find what's on
the
> Web. Google just helps me to find it by suggesting a URL, but I get the
> information that I seek from the Web -- I don't get it from Google. All
I
> get from Google are suggestions for where I should look.
>
> To me, the top cloud in the triangle diagram is simply the Web -- that
> universal space where you can put information and get information. And
a
> UDDI registry is certainly a part of that space. A Web Service
publicizes
> its information (somehow), and a Client finds that information
> (somehow). But they don't have to use a common "registry" to do so
(unless
> you wish to call the entire Web a "registry", but I think that would be
> rather disingenuous). The only thing they have to have in common is the
> Web: One places the information on the Web and the other finds it.
>
>
> --
> David Booth
> W3C Fellow / Hewlett-Packard
> Telephone: +1.617.253.1273
>
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">David,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">While I appreciate the sentiment of
your comments, I feel compelled to </font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">disagree that we can just label the
top role "The Web" and be done with it.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">To put a cosmology spin on the issue,
there's an awful lot of "dark matter"</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">that comprises the Web that is effectively
"invisible". By this I refer to</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">the beellions (well, maybe not, but
Carl Sagan would be proud:-) of orphan </font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Web resources that are not linked from
any other resource</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">and which are not the default Web page
for a given origin server</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">such that they might be discovered by
a Web 'bot on a 5 year mission to seek out</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">new Web resources; to boldly go where
no 'bot has gone before. Even</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Google does not know of their identity,
yet they exist none the less and may</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">be quite unaware that they are the equivalent
of cosmological "dark matter".</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">There is more to making a Web resource
discoverable via the Web than</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">simply making the resource available
via the Web. Whether the</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">"registry" is merely a site
map, the default Web page for an</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">origin server containing links to other
resources which contain</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">links..., or a UDDI or ebXML registry,
there needs to be some</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">action taken that makes a given resource
discoverable via the Web.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">The action can be implicit or explicit,
but it MUST be recognized in the</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">architecture. I believe this action
to be the act of registering with, or publishing to ,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">a "registry", even if that
"registry" is merely a collection of links off the</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">default page of an origin server.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Further more, a Web service may have
good reason to engage with a</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">particular class or instance of a discovery
agency:</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"> -
make my presence known only within my enterprise</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"> -
make my presence known external to my enterprise</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"> -
limit awareness of my presence to the secret society of foobar</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">I am also happy with "discovery
agencies" if "registry" is too overloaded </font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">a term.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Cheers,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Christopher Ferris<br>
Architect, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture<br>
email: [email protected]<br>
phone: +1 508 234 3624</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2><tt>David Booth wrote on 09/30/2002 07:26:44 PM:<br>
<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Heather Kreger <[email protected]> on Thu, 26 Sep 2002 17:54:16
-0400 writes:<br>
> >No, you do not discover from the web. Google discovers from the
Web. Then<br>
> >he records it in his registry. THEN you discover from Google,
which is<br>
> >searching his - gasp - registry. So, you are discovering from
a registry. <br>
> >. . .<br>
> <br>
> Well, yes, that is a legitimate one way to look at it, but I certainly
do <br>
> not think of it that way.<br>
> <br>
> To me, Google and other tools are simply my MEANS of discovery --
not the <br>
> desired end point of my discovery. Google, Yahoo, email, and
postcards and <br>
> billboards with URIs on them are all means that I use to find what's
on the <br>
> Web. Google just helps me to find it by suggesting a URL, but
I get the <br>
> information that I seek from the Web -- I don't get it from Google.
All I <br>
> get from Google are suggestions for where I should look.<br>
> <br>
> To me, the top cloud in the triangle diagram is simply the Web --
that <br>
> universal space where you can put information and get information.
And a <br>
> UDDI registry is certainly a part of that space. A Web Service
publicizes <br>
> its information (somehow), and a Client finds that information <br>
> (somehow). But they don't have to use a common "registry"
to do so (unless <br>
> you wish to call the entire Web a "registry", but I think
that would be <br>
> rather disingenuous). The only thing they have to have in common
is the <br>
> Web: One places the information on the Web and the other finds it.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> -- <br>
> David Booth<br>
> W3C Fellow / Hewlett-Packard<br>
> Telephone: +1.617.253.1273<br>
> <br>
</tt></font>
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