RE: Questions prompted by the publication of WS-ReliableMessaging

"Ugo Corda" <[email protected]> Mon, 17 Mar 2003 14:24:12 -0800
Newsgroups gmane.comp.web.services.ws-arch
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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Well, talking about IPRs, the WS-ReliableMessaging Copyright Notice says =
that you can copy and display the spec, but=20
=20
"EXCEPT FOR THE COPYRIGHT LICENSE GRANTED ABOVE, THE AUTHORS DO NOT
GRANT, EITHER EXPRESSLY OR IMPLIEDLY, A LICENSE TO ANY INTELLECTUAL
PROPERTY, INCLUDING PATENTS, THEY OWN OR CONTROL."
=20
Ugo

-----Original Message-----
From: Cutler, Roger (RogerCutler) [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 1:25 PM
To: Ugo Corda; David Orchard; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Questions prompted by the publication of =
WS-ReliableMessaging


Maybe this is a dumb question, but does it have to be "submitted to" the =
WS-TC for that TC to pick it up and use it?  I seem to recall that there =
are no IPR hurdles in that spec.
=20
But I also agree with David Orchard said -- or at least my perception of =
it.  Why the heck are we spending all this time discussing what an OASIS =
TC should be doing?  If we really wanted to keep WS-RM in the W3C we =
could have aggressively gone after chartering a WG.  I recall that a =
couple of F2F's ago we discussed doing the things that would lead in =
this direction and decided not to.  I recall that one of the reasons at =
the time was that many people thought that this activity probably was =
better done in OASIS.  Well, it's there now.  End of story as far as I =
can see.
=20
Let's get on with what we are supposed to be doing.
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Ugo Corda [mailto:[email protected]]=20
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 3:18 PM
To: David Orchard; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Questions prompted by the publication of =
WS-ReliableMessaging


I am personally not concerned at all whether reliability is handled by =
OASIS instead of W3C. What really worries me in general is that =
duplicate work is being done in competing groups. The publication of =
WS-ReliableMessaging without any clear indication of plans to converge =
with the OASIS work (publication made, by the way, by companies that, as =
far as I know, are not part of the OASIS reliability TC so far) =
definitely raised my worries quite a bit.=20
=20
If you say that there is a good possibility that WS-ReliableMessaging =
will be submitted to the OASIS reliability TC, that makes me feel =
better. But I'll be looking for concrete actions and not just words.=20
=20
By the way, it puzzles me that this submission has not yet occurred, if =
the authors indeed contemplate that possibility. The OASIS TC just =
started its work, and this would be a great time for submission: members =
could start right away to look at both specs and get the best of both, =
instead of starting work in one direction and having to change course =
later.
=20
Ugo

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On =
Behalf Of David Orchard
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 12:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Questions prompted by the publication of =
WS-ReliableMessaging


I think that companies working on WS-ReliableMessaging bodes well for =
the widespread adoption of an sigle, open, RF, interoperable reliability =
specification that architects well with other Web service =
specifications. =20
=20
What I'm really surprised by is the pushback that people are giving on =
the possibility that ws-rm won't automatically go to the oasis =
ws-reliability TC.   One of the biggest differences between the W3C and =
OASIS is that the W3C has a community review process for new working =
groups.  The goal at the W3C being to have a charter for a working group =
that all the W3C Members can live with and is technically consistent =
with other works in progress.  Indeed, the work that the W3C Team and =
member companies do to come up with such a charter and then the 4 week =
AC review period are the biggest contributors to the length of time to =
form a Working Group, IMO.  OASIS has no such intent or process.  =20
=20
If you like forming WG's quickly, you can't ALSO want there to be =
consensus in the industry around a single Working Group and it's =
charter.  Time to market or consensus, pick one. =20
=20
Continuing the community review of charters a little further, TC's can =
arbitrarily change their charter without a community review.  The IP =
issues around changes in charters alone gives me the willies, like how =
the heck do you do early IP disclosure if the charter can change???
=20

Further, individual members of OASIS don't treat TC formation as a =
"first to pole wins" wrt charters.  OASIS provides a place for like =
minded individuals to do work.  It has no structure for insisting on =
consistency or relationship between TCs or other groups.  Though such is =
certainly permitted, pending whether the individuals choose to. =20
=20
Surely these differences in processes and their plus and minues have =
been obvious for years now and people shouldn't be surprised by what can =
happen, or that it automatically means something *bad* for Web services. =
 If people have reservations about the OASIS process, then talking about =
it on w3c ws-arch seems like it would need to get moved off of the w3c =
pretty fast.  I'm ok with talking about the impact of various processes =
on web services architecture for a while, but it's probably something =
that needs to be wrapped up quickly.  Finally, people seem to like the =
OASIS process as lots of work is being done there. =20
=20
Cheers,
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 2:34 PM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]; 'Ugo Corda'; =
[email protected]
Subject: RE: Questions prompted by the publication of =
WS-ReliableMessaging


There are differences. The primary difference that I see (after a quick =
glance) is that WS-ReliableMessaging relies on/works with WS-Policy and =
the other GXA specifications. WS-Reliability is a standalone SOAP =
extension. Also, WS-ReliableMessaging has defined Addressability =
separately (which decouples asynchronicity from reliability). I think =
that WS-ReliableMessaging and WS-Addressability are better, more =
flexible, more thorough, more comprehensive specifications. Even so, the =
specs address exactly the same problem space.=20
=20
The primary difference is political. The authors of WS-ReliableMessaging =
have not signed up to participate in the WS-RM TC. I'm not sure that =
it's a given that the authors will submit it to the WS-RM TC. I'd say =
that it bodes badly for the standardization effort.=20
=20
Anne

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 4:05 PM
To: [email protected]; 'Ugo Corda'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Questions prompted by the publication of =
WS-ReliableMessaging


I agree with Ugo. Reading through the abstract it's obvious that we have =
two specifications that solve the same problem. Is there a value in =
that?
=20
I actually dug deeper into the specs and I can tell that there are some =
differences. But most of us don't have the time to compare green apples =
to red apples. It would have been much easier if someone could present a =
list of the difference. If WS-ReliableMessaging does something better =
than WS-RM then clearly it could be summarized in two pages and =
presented to the WS community so we can judge.
=20
Maybe they are so different that we need to have both. I don't see that, =
but a more educated explanation would help. Maybe the changes are minor, =
in which case such a comparison could help the OASIS TC in addressing =
the problem of reliable messaging in a much better way.
=20
Am I the only one interested in seeing such a comparison?
=20
arkin

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 12:46 PM
To: 'Ugo Corda'; [email protected]
Subject: RE: Questions prompted by the publication of =
WS-ReliableMessaging


I suggest you need to read the specs slower rather than quicker :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]On =
Behalf Of Ugo Corda
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 12:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Questions prompted by the publication of WS-ReliableMessaging



Probably most people in the group have had a chance by now to see this =
week's announcement of the publication of WS-ReliableMessaging (see =
[1]).

After a quick reading of the spec, I have to say that I don't see any =
major architectural/technical differences compared to the OASIS =
WS-ReliableMessaging TC activity and its input document WS-Reliability =
(or at least differences big enough to justify going a completely =
separate way).=20

I really hope that some WSA members whose companies published the new =
reliability spec can help me clarify the previous point and provide some =
architectural/technical rationale for the separate publication.

Thank you,=20
Ugo=20

P.S. No need to answer if the rationale for publication is a political =
one (I can figure that out by myself ...).=20

[1] http://xml.coverpages.org/ni2003-03-13-a.html=20


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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D453102022-17032003>Well, =
talking about=20
IPRs, the WS-ReliableMessaging Copyright Notice says that you can copy =
and=20
display the spec, but </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D453102022-17032003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D453102022-17032003>"EXCEPT FOR THE=20
COPYRIGHT LICENSE GRANTED ABOVE, THE AUTHORS DO NOT<BR>GRANT, EITHER =
EXPRESSLY=20
OR IMPLIEDLY, A LICENSE TO ANY INTELLECTUAL<BR>PROPERTY, INCLUDING =
PATENTS, THEY=20
OWN OR CONTROL."</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D453102022-17032003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D453102022-17032003>Ugo</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Cutler, Roger =
(RogerCutler)=20
  [mailto:[email protected]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March =
17, 2003=20
  1:25 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Ugo Corda; David Orchard;=20
  [email protected]<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Questions prompted by the=20
  publication of WS-ReliableMessaging<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D585012021-17032003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Maybe this is a dumb question, but does it have to be =
"submitted to"=20
  the WS-TC for that TC to pick it up and use it?&nbsp; I seem to recall =
that=20
  there are no IPR hurdles in that spec.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D585012021-17032003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D585012021-17032003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>But=20
  I also agree with David Orchard said -- or at least my perception of =
it.&nbsp;=20
  Why the heck are we spending all this time discussing what an OASIS TC =
should=20
  be doing?&nbsp; If we really wanted to keep WS-RM in the W3C we could =
have=20
  aggressively gone after chartering a WG.&nbsp; I recall that a couple =
of F2F's=20
  ago we discussed doing the things that would lead in this direction =
and=20
  decided not to.&nbsp; I recall that one of the reasons at the time was =
that=20
  many people thought that this activity probably was better done in=20
  OASIS.&nbsp; Well, it's there now.&nbsp; End of story as far as I can=20
  see.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D585012021-17032003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D585012021-17032003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Let's get on with what we are supposed to be =
doing.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D585012021-17032003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Ugo =
Corda=20
  [mailto:[email protected]] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 17, 2003 =
3:18=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> David Orchard; [email protected]<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
RE:=20
  Questions prompted by the publication of=20
  WS-ReliableMessaging<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D580580021-17032003>I am =
personally=20
  not concerned at all whether reliability is handled by =
OASIS&nbsp;instead=20
  of&nbsp;W3C. What really worries me in general is that duplicate work =
is being=20
  done in competing groups. The publication of WS-ReliableMessaging =
without=20
  any&nbsp;clear indication&nbsp;of plans to converge with the OASIS =
work=20
  (publication made, by the way, by companies that, as far as I know, =
are not=20
  part of the OASIS reliability TC so far) definitely raised my worries =
quite a=20
  bit. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D580580021-17032003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D580580021-17032003>If =
you say that=20
  there is a good possibility that WS-ReliableMessaging will be =
submitted to the=20
  OASIS reliability TC, that makes me feel better. But I'll =
be&nbsp;looking for=20
  concrete actions and not just words. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D580580021-17032003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D580580021-17032003>By =
the way, it=20
  puzzles me&nbsp;that this submission has not yet occurred, if the =
authors=20
  indeed contemplate that possibility. The OASIS TC just started its=20
  work,&nbsp;and this would be a great time for submission: members =
could start=20
  right away to look at both specs and get the best of both, instead of =
starting=20
  work in one direction and having to change course =
later.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D580580021-17032003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
  class=3D580580021-17032003>Ugo</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
    size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =
[email protected]=20
    [mailto:[email protected]]<B>On Behalf Of </B>David=20
    Orchard<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 17, 2003 12:40 =
PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
    [email protected]<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Questions prompted by the=20
    publication of WS-ReliableMessaging<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D110452717-17032003>I=20
    think that companies working on WS-ReliableMessaging bodes&nbsp;well =
for the=20
    widespread adoption of an sigle, open, RF, interoperable reliability =

    specification that architects well with other&nbsp;Web=20
    service&nbsp;specifications.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D110452717-17032003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D110452717-17032003>What I'm really surprised by is the =
pushback that=20
    people are giving on the possibility that ws-rm won't automatically =
go to=20
    the oasis ws-reliability TC.&nbsp;&nbsp; One of the biggest =
differences=20
    between the W3C and OASIS is that the W3C has a community review =
process for=20
    new working groups.&nbsp; The goal at the W3C being to have a =
charter for a=20
    working group that all the W3C Members can live with and is =
technically=20
    consistent with other works in progress.&nbsp; Indeed, the work that =
the W3C=20
    Team and member companies&nbsp;do to come up with such a charter and =
then=20
    the 4 week AC review period are the biggest contributors to the =
length of=20
    time to form a Working Group, IMO.&nbsp; OASIS has no such intent or =

    process.&nbsp;&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D110452717-17032003></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2><SPAN class=3D110452717-17032003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D110452717-17032003>If=20
    you like forming WG's quickly, you can't ALSO want there to be =
consensus in=20
    the industry around a single Working Group and it's charter.&nbsp; =
Time to=20
    market or consensus, pick one.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D110452717-17032003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D110452717-17032003><SPAN =
class=3D110452717-17032003>Continuing the=20
    community review of charters a little further, TC's can arbitrarily =
change=20
    their charter without a community review.&nbsp; The IP issues around =
changes=20
    in charters alone gives me the willies, like how the heck do you do =
early=20
    IP&nbsp;disclosure if the charter can =
change???</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D110452717-17032003><SPAN=20
    class=3D110452717-17032003></SPAN></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D110452717-17032003>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D110452717-17032003>Further, individual members of OASIS =
don't=20
    treat&nbsp;TC formation as a "first to pole wins" wrt =
charters.&nbsp; OASIS=20
    provides a place for like minded&nbsp;individuals to do work.&nbsp; =
It has=20
    no structure for insisting on consistency or relationship between =
TCs or=20
    other groups.&nbsp; Though such is certainly permitted, pending =
whether the=20
    individuals choose to.&nbsp; </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D110452717-17032003></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D110452717-17032003>Surely these differences in processes and =
their=20
    plus and minues&nbsp;have been obvious for years now and people =
shouldn't be=20
    surprised&nbsp;by what can happen, or that it automatically means=20
    something&nbsp;*bad* for&nbsp;Web services.&nbsp; If people have=20
    reservations about the OASIS process,&nbsp;then talking about it on =
w3c=20
    ws-arch seems&nbsp;like it would need to get moved off of the=20
    w3c&nbsp;pretty fast.&nbsp; I'm ok with talking about the impact of =
various=20
    processes on web services architecture for a while, but it's =
probably=20
    something that needs to be wrapped up quickly.&nbsp; Finally, people =
seem to=20
    like the OASIS process as lots of work is being done=20
    there.&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D110452717-17032003></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
    size=3D2><SPAN class=3D110452717-17032003></SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
    color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D110452717-17032003></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
    face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    =
class=3D110452717-17032003></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></DIV>=

    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D110452717-17032003>Cheers,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
    class=3D110452717-17032003>Dave</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
    <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
    style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff =
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
      <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
      size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
      [email protected]=20
      [mailto:[email protected]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, =
March 15,=20
      2003 2:34 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [email protected];=20
      [email protected]; 'Ugo Corda';=20
      [email protected]<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Questions prompted by =
the=20
      publication of WS-ReliableMessaging<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D649212322-15032003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2>There are differences. The primary difference that I see =
(after a=20
      quick glance) is that WS-ReliableMessaging relies on/works with =
WS-Policy=20
      and the other GXA specifications. WS-Reliability is a standalone =
SOAP=20
      extension. Also, WS-ReliableMessaging has defined Addressability=20
      separately (which decouples asynchronicity from reliability). I =
think that=20
      WS-ReliableMessaging and WS-Addressability&nbsp;are better, more =
flexible,=20
      more thorough, more comprehensive specifications. Even so, the =
specs=20
      address exactly the same problem space. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D649212322-15032003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D649212322-15032003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2>The primary difference is political. The authors of=20
      WS-ReliableMessaging have not signed up to participate in the =
WS-RM TC.=20
      I'm not sure that it's a given that the authors will submit it to =
the=20
      WS-RM TC. I'd say that it bodes badly for the standardization =
effort.=20
      </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D649212322-15032003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
      <DIV><SPAN class=3D649212322-15032003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
      size=3D2>Anne</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
      <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
      style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff =
2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
        <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
        size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
        [email protected]=20
        [mailto:[email protected]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, =
March 15,=20
        2003 4:05 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [email protected]; 'Ugo =
Corda';=20
        [email protected]<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Questions prompted by =
the=20
        publication of WS-ReliableMessaging<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=3D169085220-15032003><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
        size=3D2>I agree with Ugo. Reading through the abstract it's =
obvious that=20
        we have two specifications that solve the same problem. Is there =
a value=20
        in that?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=3D169085220-15032003><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
        size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=3D169085220-15032003><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
        size=3D2>I actually dug deeper into the specs and I can tell =
that there=20
        are some differences. But most of us don't have the time to =
compare=20
        green apples to red apples. It would have been much easier if =
someone=20
        could present a list of the difference. If WS-ReliableMessaging =
does=20
        something better than WS-RM then clearly it could be summarized =
in two=20
        pages and presented to the WS community so we can=20
        judge.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=3D169085220-15032003><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
        size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=3D169085220-15032003><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
        size=3D2>Maybe they are so different that we need to have both. =
I don't=20
        see that, but a more educated explanation would help. Maybe the =
changes=20
        are minor, in which case such a comparison could help the OASIS =
TC in=20
        addressing the problem of reliable messaging in a much better=20
        way.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=3D169085220-15032003><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
        size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=3D169085220-15032003><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
        size=3D2>Am I the only one interested in seeing such a=20
        comparison?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=3D169085220-15032003><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
        size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
        <DIV><SPAN class=3D169085220-15032003><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
        size=3D2>arkin</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
        <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
        style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
#0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
          <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
          size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
          [email protected]=20
          [mailto:[email protected]]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, =
March=20
          15, 2003 12:46 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Ugo Corda';=20
          [email protected]<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: Questions prompted =
by the=20
          publication of WS-ReliableMessaging<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
          <DIV><SPAN class=3D167364420-15032003><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
          size=3D2>I suggest you need to read the specs slower rather =
than quicker=20
          :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
          <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
          style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: =
#0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
            <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DTahoma=20
            size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
            [email protected] =
[mailto:[email protected]]<B>On=20
            Behalf Of </B>Ugo Corda<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, March 15, =
2003=20
            12:44 PM<BR><B>To:</B> [email protected]<BR><B>Subject:</B> =

            Questions prompted by the publication of=20
            WS-ReliableMessaging<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><!-- Converted from =
text/rtf format -->
            <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Probably most people in the =
group have=20
            had a chance by now to see this week's announcement of the=20
            publication of WS-ReliableMessaging (see [1]).</FONT></P>
            <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>After a quick reading of the =
spec, I have=20
            to say that I don't see any major architectural/technical=20
            differences compared to the OASIS WS-ReliableMessaging TC =
activity=20
            and its input document WS-Reliability (or at least =
differences big=20
            enough to justify going a completely separate way). =
</FONT></P>
            <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I really hope that some WSA =
members whose=20
            companies published the new reliability spec can help me =
clarify the=20
            previous point and provide some architectural/technical =
rationale=20
            for the separate publication.</FONT></P>
            <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank you,</FONT> <BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
            size=3D2>Ugo</FONT> </P>
            <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>P.S. No need to answer if the =
rationale=20
            for publication is a political one (I can figure that out by =
myself=20
            ...).</FONT> </P>
            <P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>[1] <A=20
            =
href=3D"http://xml.coverpages.org/ni2003-03-13-a.html">http://xml.coverpa=
ges.org/ni2003-03-13-a.html</A></FONT>=20
            =
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BL=
OCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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